Kicad - GUI is Horrific!

[thinkfat]

What I find puzzling about it is how, despite having some fairly advanced features, in other areas it’s astoundingly basic. I’m a proficient Altium user, and whenever I need to work in KiCad, I get irritated at things that aren’t there (like really good alignment/snap tools). I’m sure that some things are simply it not being what I’m used to, but others really aren’t there. Something I use all the time in Altium that KiCad can’t do is editing multiple objects at once. That’s something so fundamental I am flabbergasted it can’t do it. (And yes, I’ve verified that it really can’t.)

Indeed those are features that I dearly miss from CircuitMaker: Aligning a group of components, like, capacitors, to a common centerline, or distributing them equally along that centerline. Also, selecting a group of components and then editing a common attribute, like, a footprint, or changing the font size, or a pad attribute etc. KiCad _does_ have a method of editing attributes of multiple components, but it is much more limited and the scope is always the whole PCB, with some limited filtering for e.g. net classes.

But those are just features, and given enough incentive, I'm sure they will appear eventually. The lack of certain features doesn't make for a "horrible" experience.

[propellerhead]

Something I use all the time in Altium that KiCad can’t do is editing multiple objects at once.

I don't understand.  Can you explain that, svp?

Assign same value/constraint/field to multiple objects, last i've checked they have promised it's in the works because for now the solution is "just write a python script to do that"

Hmm.  I don't think I'll get this unless someone can offer an example.

[MitjaN]

This is doable in pcbeditor via properties manager. In V7

In schematics this is not possible currently. Neither can you use python, as python API is not available in schematics.

[propellerhead]

You haven't actually described the action - what "this" is.  But I think I get it - that you can select more than one thing and apply a common attribute (like trace width) to them - or maybe copy some attribute from one to the other.  I'm not sure offhand where I might
find that useful.

[Gribo]

He demonstrated alignment of multiple parts (set their Y position value) and changing the width of multiple parts (set property). It is useful when migrating a design from TH to SMT - set all resistors to use 0603 footprint instead of axial. Personally, I like KiCAD and with DB integration, I can't really justify Eagle's subscription and customer abuse.

[delfinom]

Something I use all the time in Altium that KiCad can’t do is editing multiple objects at once.

I don't understand.  Can you explain that, svp?

Assign same value/constraint/field to multiple objects, last i've checked they have promised it's in the works because for now the solution is "just write a python script to do that"
But it's been a while since i used any PCB cad, too many programming jobs lately

7.0 has the properties editor in the PCB Editor, you can multi edit selected parts.

[propellerhead]

You can also edit the color/style of multiple wires at once in eeschema.

Oh.  So this is what they consider important in schematic capture.  Bitch, pleez...

[Simon]

You can also edit the color/style of multiple wires at once in eeschema.

Oh.  So this is what they consider important in schematic capture.  Bitch, pleez...

Lots of things are important. I used to have to draw wiring looms in schematic software. Having that ability sadly came too late as by the time it became available I had changed job. Different people have different needs, it's not all about you.

[propellerhead]

Absolutely right, so don't try to make it about me.

It's about making sure there's sound metal beneath before putting on shiny coats of paint and pinstripes.

[ebastler]

Absolutely right, so don't try to make it about me.

What else would the "bitch, pleez" part be about, if not about you? If you cannot control your kneejerk reactions, don't complain about people who don't appreciate your arguments.

[propellerhead]

Perhaps you're not familiar with it - it's a specific cultural reference.

https://youtu.be/EWVGJg-7jLQ

[tooki]

Something I use all the time in Altium that KiCad can’t do is editing multiple objects at once.

I don't understand.  Can you explain that, svp?

Schematic:
Suppose the boss has said to change all the resistors from 0805 to 0603. I can do a Find to find and select all the 0805 resistors, then use the Properties to assign the 0603 footprint to all of them, all the while all their other properties remain unchanged.

Or maybe I need to change an IC from one type to another, for example the old 7805 to a more modern LM1117-style LDO. I can prepare a schematic symbol with the same layout, then select all my 7805’s and replace the symbol with the LM1117.

Or suppose the current limiting resistors for LEDs were first specified at 330 ohm, but user feedback says “the LEDs are way too bright” and we decide they need to be changed to 1Kohm. In KiCad, you’d have to change the value on each resistor one at a time. o_O

PCB layout:
Real world example I did this week: taking someone else’s board design (done by a novice in KiCad) and converting it to Altium, then tidying it up to prepare it for pick and place assembly. With 8 identical amplifier stages (4 channels x 2 stages), many changes needed to be made 8 times. (Had it been a from-scratch layout I would have used rooms to just replicate the layout, but it was already done…) I could select all 4 instances of a part in one column that need to be moved to a particular X coordinate, enter it, and all of them move there, even if they were at inconsistent X coordinates before. Their Y coordinates remain unchanged.

Or let’s say that we want to change to a cheaper PCB manufacturing process, and thus need to adhere to a larger minimum via size. I can use the Find feature to find the ones that aren’t compliant and then assign them all a compliant size, even if there were multiple noncompliant sizes. (For example, suppose we now need 0.5mm minimum, and before we had both 0.3mm and 0.4mm. I can search for all vias under 0.5mm, select them, and then apply a 0.5mm via template.)


PCB footprints:
Often, manufacturer-supplied footprints have a “hard coded” paste mask reduction of 0, so for the general paste mask reduction rule to apply, the pads need to be changed from “manual” to “rule”. I can set the selection filter to just pads, Ctrl-A to select them all, then change the paste mask setting. No big deal to do one at a time on a 3-pin device, but a proper pain in the ass on a 32-pin part, and an RSI nightmare on a 144-pin part.


You might remark that many of these things could be avoided by planning correctly from the start, and you’d be correct. But one doesn’t always have the luxury of starting a project from scratch, with the experience that comes with being a seasoned professional. One’s early designs have all sorts of sins, but also you’ll inherit designs from others, who used different defaults and had different preferences. So being able to clean things up easily is a big plus. (And I think it’s fair to say that a LOT of KiCad users are non-professionals who have neither the training nor experience to know how to do things correctly right from the start, nor have dedicated parts management people who will draw consistent footprints for them. So KiCad really should have this, because their users will need it!)

[tooki]

Perhaps you're not familiar with it - it's a specific cultural reference.

https://youtu.be/EWVGJg-7jLQ

The fact that you chose that specific way of being flippantly dismissive doesn’t change the fact that you were flippantly dismissive. That’s what people were responding to, not the specific words used to do so.

P.S. The phrase “bitch, please” predates the SNL skit by decades. As I gay man myself, I assure you, we were saying it loooong before!

[propellerhead]

Sure, I get all that and don't have any particular problems with it.  Wrt your suggestion that I "might remark",
in fact I wouldn't.  As should have been clear from my previous comments about symbol editing (and my quote
from Mike Tyson), the old Yiddish saying "Man plans, god laughs" is perfectly at home here.  Things change,
and good tools let you accommodate those changes gracefully.

A few diffs in procedure from what I'm used to, of course.  The change of resistor package that you offer as an
example does not, arguably, have any place in schematic - it's a layout thing, keeping in mind the power rating,
of course.  In my case it's something that would happen in "package".  On a schematic a resistor is a resistor is
a resistor (unless it's one of those goofy box things that the Euros like to use, where we North Americans like the
zigzag, but no matter...), and if I want to change the physical form I'd pick a different geometry and/or part number
in the packaging process (en route to layout).  Same thing with your LED resistor value.  [edit: Actually, in Mentor
it's a little more complicated than that because of the way that symbol attributes are handled, so it can be done
a couple of different ways at various stages.]  Your regulator example is different, though, because in that case the
pinout changes when you make that move, and as we all know, connections (and not where the dot is on the
schematic symbol) matter, so when I change that symbol the wiring changes are updated to match.

I won't get further into the weeds on the layout stuff, but sure, the way you describe it working makes as much
sense as anything.

[propellerhead]

The fact that you chose that specific way of being flippantly dismissive doesn’t change the fact that you were flippantly dismissive. That’s what people were responding to, not the specific words used to do so.

Of course it was flip.  And you're so easily trolled by it...

P.S. The phrase “bitch, please” predates the SNL skit by decades. As I gay man myself, I assure you, we were saying it loooong before!

WELL, I NEVER!  Playing the homo card now?

Nah, just messing with you... we cool.

[tooki]

The fact that you chose that specific way of being flippantly dismissive doesn’t change the fact that you were flippantly dismissive. That’s what people were responding to, not the specific words used to do so.

Of course it was flip.  And you're so easily trolled by it...

I didn’t respond to it. I only explained why others responded.

With that said, if you’re admitting to trolling: just knock it off and don’t waste people’s time with that. It doesn’t improve your reputation…

[propellerhead]

I didn’t respond to it. I only explained why others responded.

So you're metaresponding.  The difference is insignificant.

With that said, if you’re admitting to trolling: just knock it off and don’t waste people’s time with that. It doesn’t improve your reputation…

And we were doing so well discussing matters of substance. 

Don't get your knickers in a twist just because I refuse to use those idiotic emojis.

[ebastler]

The fact that you chose that specific way of being flippantly dismissive doesn’t change the fact that you were flippantly dismissive. That’s what people were responding to, not the specific words used to do so.

Of course it was flip.  And you're so easily trolled by it...

I didn’t respond to it. I only explained why others responded.

With that said, if you’re admitting to trolling: just knock it off and don’t waste people’s time with that. It doesn’t improve your reputation…

I did respond to that post and, coming in late now, can only echo what tooki described more eloquently than I could.

@propellerhead: If you want to be flippant, go for it, just don't expect people to value your opinion as much as they otherwise might. The fact that you delight in having "easily trolled" someone with your behaviour does, by the way, not make it better.

Maybe you could help me understand the specific cultural reference behind your "propellerhead" moniker? I understand it has something to do with smarts, but is there also a hint at social ineptitude?

[TimFox]

Propellerheads were a popular music duo formed in 1996, apparently named after a California slang term for computer nerds.
Much earlier than that was a TV cartoon show about Beany and Cecil (the seasick sea-serpent), which featured a Beany-copter:  a beany hat with a detachable propeller.

"It's the Beany and Cecil Show!

Come go sailing
We've waited long enough
For Beany and Cecil, Dishonest John, and Captain Huffenpuff.
It's time for adventure
Hot Dog, some fun. Oh Joy
With Cecil the seasick sea serpent
And good old Beany
Boy, boy, boy, boy, boy.

Join us for fun with Beany and...

Lovable, gullible, armless, harmless, ten foot tall and wet.
Cecil the seasick serpent
Created by Bob Clampett.
So come on kids, let's flip our lids
Higher than the moon
Cause now here's Beany and Cecil in a whole half hour
Bob Clampett Cartoon."

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/beanyandcecillyrics.html

For a picture of a cute kid wearing the $1.25 Mattel version of the beany-copter, see  https://toytales.ca/beany-copter-mattel-1963/

[propellerhead]

@propellerhead: If you want to be flippant, go for it, just don't expect people to value your opinion as much as they otherwise might. The fact that you delight in having "easily trolled" someone with your behaviour does, by the way, not make it better.

Maybe you could help me understand the specific cultural reference behind your "propellerhead" moniker? I understand it has something to do with smarts, but is there also a hint at social ineptitude?

Honestly, you're simply reading way more into all of this than is justified.  The fact is, I have a
wicked sense of humour and won't tamp it down (or use those stupid emojis) just because some
readers may have trouble with the subtleties.  Same thing with my handle here - it's just a shorthand
for what our Brit friends call a "boffin".  As for the other part, I don't think a lot of people have a full
and proper appreciation for the extent to which many (most?) of the people in our business are "on
the spectrum".

As for the gay thing, I neglected to previously apologize for not being, so I would like to now apologize
for failing to apologize.  And if you don't get that joke, ask a canuck friend.

[tooki]

Pro tip: saying it’s just humor doesn’t actually make assholish behavior any less assholish.

As for the spectrum: we are acutely aware. If you had actually spent any meaningful amount of time in these forums before barging in with your chest puffed out, you’d know it’s been brought up many, many, many times.

You aren’t the uniquely wiser-than-everyone-else sage you imagine yourself to be.

[tooki]

I didn’t respond to it. I only explained why others responded.

So you're metaresponding.  The difference is insignificant.

No, it’s a big difference.

With that said, if you’re admitting to trolling: just knock it off and don’t waste people’s time with that. It doesn’t improve your reputation…

And we were doing so well discussing matters of substance.

If you want discussions “of substance”, then you need to stick to the substance and leave the trolling, arrogance, and unfunny “jokes” at the door. You reap what you sow. You forfeit the right to complain about being off-topic when you’re the one who takes it there!

Don't get your knickers in a twist just because I refuse to use those idiotic emojis.

Stop lying. I didn’t say anything about emoji use.

[propellerhead]

Oh. My. God.  You're exhausting.  Talk about strangling all the fun out of harmless banter.

You may be further out on the spectrum than you think.

[tooki]

Oh. My. God.  You're exhausting.  Talk about strangling all the fun out of harmless banter.

Your “harmless banter” is just idiotic annoyance.

You may be further out on the spectrum than you think.

Given that I have said nothing about where on the spectrum I might land, you have zero right (or point of reference) to make any claims about it. (Unlike me debunking your explicit claims of having intellect so superior that it supposedly makes up for your rotten personality.)

[Simon]

Perhaps you're not familiar with it - it's a specific cultural reference.

https://youtu.be/EWVGJg-7jLQ

I don't get the reference, if that is your culture, well what can I say? does, "bitch please" cut it ? as an international forum "cultural references" don't really work, particularly that sort of pathetic crap. How about, "get out of here" ? does your taste in crap TV translate that clearly enough?