Author Topic: Ugh. Rant time.  (Read 15551 times)

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Offline jancumps

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2013, 08:30:34 pm »
The grandaddies learned to avoid the obvious mistakes by making them first. The kiddies are doing the same.
Power to them. Amazing what they achieve with these open source projects.  :-+
 

Offline Anquietas

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2013, 09:54:47 pm »
That, and they aren't listening. The kids invent one rubbish programming language (python, php, JavaScript ...) after the other, "invent" one rubbish technology after the other (Ajax, Flash, ...), and redo every single mistake of the past. They don't even invent their own mistakes, they just do the old mistakes over and over again.
I would like to hear or be linked to criticism on Python that you second.
 

Offline carloscuev

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2013, 06:54:25 am »
Okay, despite reporting the bug being a pain in the ass, I have to commend them - I reported it last night and a fix was committed this morning.  :-+

I've reported 3 bugs just by describing the steps to reproduce in their launchpad system (https://launchpad.net/kicad) and attached a screenshot showing the bug. In those 3 cases a fix was commited the next morning, just like you did. I don't think its too much trouble and the response time is just awesome.
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2013, 09:08:53 am »
3 bugs verified and fixed the next day, that's amazing. I guess they must have been simple bugs.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2013, 03:28:26 am »
How about a "I see you connected something to VCC but there's no power, perhaps you forgot your power flag?"

That took a while for me to figure out, I thought I just hadn't learned the correct technique to make it think you connected something to the pin.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2013, 03:35:51 am »
That's simple if you understand how the ERC system works in KiCad. (RTFM!  ;)) A pin of type "power input" must be powered by a pin of type "power output" to pass ERC, so you must have a power output somewhere on the net. The power ports cannot be implicitly "power output" because two outputs on the same net is a collision, so you must mark the provision of power somewhere. Also, if they were, then ERC would not be able to detect when you forget to power the power rail.

I do think the power flags are ugly, but part of that is the fact that their whole standard library is ugly. I use a much smaller one that doesn't clutter up the schematic.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2013, 10:11:02 pm »
I think the main problem here is that most oss is written by selfmanaged developers. It simply doesn't occur to them, that some people just want to use their shit instead of constantly fiddle with it.
You must not think that that is the problem. IT IS the problem. Even the Linux kernel developers don't see that. Its very hard to support Linux software. In fact I write most of 'my' Windows software on Linux so for most of my software there is a Linux version but I'm not going to release that because the support effort is simply too big.
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2013, 12:58:52 am »
Okay, despite reporting the bug being a pain in the ass, I have to commend them - I reported it last night and a fix was committed this morning.  :-+
Whinge and win... I do believe that's another australianism
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2013, 01:07:43 am »
In fact I write most of 'my' Windows software on Linux so for most of my software there is a Linux version but I'm not going to release that because the support effort is simply too big.

Is it OSS? Tar up the executable directory as a little "extra". It's still considered a somewhat reasonable way to install software on Linux to just extract that to a subdirectory in /opt. Anyone who wants to do it more "properly" can figure it out from your source and the structure of the tarball. Not really a true 'release', but it's a lot better than nothing for those who want it and are willing to go to the trouble.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2013, 03:00:55 am »
Its not OSS. There are ways around it by distributing all the libraries (other than the bare system libraries) together with the program and tell the linker to have the executable look into the local subdirectory first (like Windows does with DLLs by default). Firefox and other commercial packages distribute their Linux software this way. It kinda undoes the whole 'advantage' of using dynamically linked libraries but those have become a pipe dream on every platform rather quickly.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Sigmoid

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2013, 08:35:32 am »
It seems people are misunderstanding OSS. OSS is NOT a product, and you are NOT a customer.

You are part of a community that develops the software. Yes, even if you're just using the thing, you're not a "user", and most definitely not a "customer", you are a community member. You are more than welcome to get the code and fix the bug yourself. But if you cannot or do not want to, your share of the work is to create a detailed bug report.

Note how you are not entitled to a perfect (or a working) piece of software. Nobody ever signed an SLA for you, and you didn't pay anyone for anything. The dev community aren't developing the software for you, or any abstract "user". They are doing it for themselves. When writing a proper bug report, you aren't doing it for anyone else but yourself - doing your part of making the software better for yourself that you are using.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 08:39:21 am by Sigmoid »
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2013, 09:04:46 am »
I don't know who you're aiming at, I understand this just fine. Doesn't mean I can't criticize it, though. It's not a good way to do software, at least, in my opinion.

I am well aware that I'm not "entitled to" a perfect piece of software. If I thought I were, I'd be taking it up with the KiCad developers right now. There are a few features I'm praying for at the moment.... and the last time it crashed my system I nearly threw my computer out the window.... But if they want to insist that I'm stuck with whatever bugs I won't fix myself, then yes, I'm going to bitch about it.

OSS should be a product, and its users should be customers. There can still be a "community", but don't treat me like a developer.
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Offline free_electron

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2013, 10:24:36 am »
It seems people are misunderstanding OSS. OSS is NOT a product, and you are NOT a customer.

You are part of a community that develops the software. Yes, even if you're just using the thing, you're not a "user", and most definitely not a "customer", you are a community member. You are more than welcome to get the code and fix the bug yourself. But if you cannot or do not want to, your share of the work is to create a detailed bug report.

Note how you are not entitled to a perfect (or a working) piece of software. Nobody ever signed an SLA for you, and you didn't pay anyone for anything. The dev community aren't developing the software for you, or any abstract "user". They are doing it for themselves. When writing a proper bug report, you aren't doing it for anyone else but yourself - doing your part of making the software better for yourself that you are using.

Well that certain clears thing up. What you are saying is that they are writing code for the sake of writing code and don't give a rats ass if it is usable, stable or bug free , let alone if someone actually wants to use it.

Well that sums it up niceley then. I had come to that conclusion long ago and decided to stay far away from it as it cannot improve my productivity.
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Ugh. Rant time.
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2013, 04:58:46 pm »
Quote
It seems people are misunderstanding OSS. OSS is NOT a product, and you are NOT a customer.

Quote
OSS should be a product, and its users should be customers. There can still be a "community", but don't treat me like a developer.

I would say most users of OSS are in fact just 'Users' and there is not need to introduce community or corporate speak into it.

I am very grateful to the people who have made Kicad and all the other extremely worthwhile open source software.
If anyone thinks that  Linux, Apache, Firefox, Libre Office, Paint.net, Kicad etc are not worthwhile then they have their eyes closed.

I don't think I have submitted crash reports myself(apart from automatic),  to any of these 'communities' and so I don't really feel like I am part of a community.

I haven't ever had any of these OSS projects crash my windows box as far as I can remember, although many non OSS games have done this. Obviously most windows crashes would come from the graphics or networking subsystems, so it is hardly a fair comparison, but it is the only one I can make as games are the only bits of software I would bother buying. (edit:  + Windows and anti virus too + Visual Studio ).

I would have to say it is, it is pretty hard to complain about what you are getting for free. Maybe you can try one of the obviously bug free commercial products and see if they are better. (edit: sarcasm warning)
 


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