Electronics > Manufacturing & Assembly

10K$ SMT line suggestion

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ali_asadzadeh:
Hi,
This is the First time I want to Buy SMT Equipment, so my budget is around 10K$-15K$, And I need the line for manufacturing my own projects which could be around 20-30 PCB design each year, around 5-1000 units each PCB, the main requirements are as follow

1- Smallest part size is 0402 (But I prefer to go down till 0201)
2- The biggest part is 35mX35mm BGA with 1mm ball pitch (Also Prefer to reserve room for bigger BGA parts)
3- My boards vary on complexity, Usually on the higher side of complexity with low number of production QTY,  But they usually range from 60 different components to 185 different parts, so the more feeders are welcome
4- All of my boards are double side loaded parts, So I Should be able to do Top and Bottom assembly.

So any suggestions and feedback is highly appreciated.

SMTech:
Oh come on now. ADD A ZERO! Even then you won't buying new kit. Also read the 5k other threads with the same silly budget.

1MM BGA Pitch, not really a challenge, neither is double sided assembly although that can involve some workaround jigs or compromises if you choose the wrong very entry level equipment.

35mm will exclude most/all old "chipshooter" machines as they have narrow FOV's

0402 isn't a big challenge in 2022, 0201 needs decent feeders and a decent pick and place as well as good printing and PCB design, As far as I'm concerned 0201 means your printer is fully automatic.

185 different parts on 1 board is a lot and suggests poor design choices, cheap Chinese machines often top out at 48 or 60 8mm lanes. Even with more conventional equipment you would typically approach this many parts & feeders with two or more machines inline because 60 front 60 rear is a very "standard" arrangement.

You can load one set of feeders build, and then run again (shortest parts first) but that approach doesn't scale, fine for a batch 5 & completely unworkable for any volume at all (exactly how unworkable would depend exactly how much time and money you put in own extra feeders and kitting all 185 parts in advance)as well as how many partially built boards you want racked up in magazines drying out.

1000 boards also means a real oven not some tiny benchtop thing, they're not small.

If you genuinely want and need an SMT line and your product make you money, buying the correct equipment will pay off, spend more than a shitty second hand car or outsource.

Just as an example, here is a good 2nd user machine that is designed for exactly the type of work you describe. It can't quite hold enough parts, but I happen to know you can do a live feeder cassette switch on every board while its building which would be fine for very occasional highly complex jobs but a nightmare in any other scenario. https://www.shawline.co.uk/product.php?id_product=42, the price is slightly inflated as it has a new head on it and is advertised by a broker. However it's still £23K GBP and doesn't come with feeders, hunting them down will cost as much again, at least, because they are forwards compatible with new models and are highly sought after, whoever is selling this machine clearly kept them for their new one and this is pretty normal.

mikeselectricstuff:
You need to take a hard look at exactly why you want to go in-house vs. subcontract, as well as explore as many subcontractors as you can. 
With such a wide range of volumes, it may well be that a mix of subcontract for high-volume and in-house for low-volume/urgent makes the most sense.
If you can sensibly sub out the hundreds to thousands jobs, you may well be able to get a perfectly good in-house setup to suit the lower volumes within your budget.

This is not just about equipment, but staffing/your time as well.

ali_asadzadeh:

--- Quote ---185 different parts on 1 board is a lot and suggests poor design choices, cheap Chinese machines often top out at 48 or 60 8mm lanes. Even with more conventional equipment you would typically approach this many parts & feeders with two or more machines inline because 60 front 60 rear is a very "standard" arrangement.
--- End quote ---

The Designs are simply just complex, since you did not see any let me show you some pictures!



The QTY is usually in the lower end, and 1000 units are not in hurry too, I thought maybe by adding a NeoDen YY1 Pick And Place Machine to the line, The price would not go that far, also I have checked a handfull of our last designs, they usually have under 120 different parts, so I think NeoDen YY1 can come in handy,


--- Quote ---If you can sensibly sub out the hundreds to thousands jobs, you may well be able to get a perfectly good in-house setup to suit the lower volumes within your budget.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the tip, I can do that, so do you suggest equipment with in my budget?

Mangozac:
My SMT line cost several times more than $10k and I would hate to try to build boards like that :(

Too many component types, critical, fine pitch parts and BGAs and very long SMT connectors all in the one board would be a massive pain. Just saying "120 parts" doesn't mean a whole lot - many of those parts if supplied on tape will take up more than one feeder location.

The Neoden will be sloooow and you still have to pay someone to mind it while operating. I don't see the point for production.

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