Advice on rapid PCB prototyping machine

[trichards02]

Long time lurker, first time poster!

I've been working on a rapid PCB prototyping machine for a while now, and I've gotten it to print some pretty good looking boards at this point. I've attached some photos of samples I've printed to this post, FR4, Flex, Rogers Ro4003, and a solder stencil. Right now, I'm printing boards with 2-4 mil spacing, plated thru-holes, soldermask, etc on FR4, Flex, Rogers, and Aluminum.

My question for you all is, how would you all see something like this fitting into the PCB prototyping and development space? The machine costs a lot less than comparable systems, i.e. LPKF's (both the machine itself and the consumables), but I'm having a tough time figuring out who might be interested in buying or leasing it. I've also thought about using it to offer same-day quick-turn services at a much lower cost than places like Sierra or Advanced Circuits. My hope is this would be especially helpful in reducing costs + lead times for prototyping with flex and RF materials.

What do you all think? Any advice, feedback, or recommendations would be really appreciated!

[Simon]

The huge promise but little information is simply leading to people reporting this post as a scam. Maybe you should be more forthcoming. If you can do what you appear to claim your questions sound more than naïve.

[ebastler]

Providing a link to your (?) website might have helped as a first step: https://u-fab.co/

[Simon]

My question for you all is, how would you all see something like this fitting into the PCB prototyping and development space? The machine costs a lot less than comparable systems, i.e. LPKF's (both the machine itself and the consumables), but I'm having a tough time figuring out who might be interested in buying or leasing it. I've also thought about using it to offer same-day quick-turn services at a much lower cost than places like Sierra or Advanced Circuits. My hope is this would be especially helpful in reducing costs + lead times for prototyping with flex and RF materials.

What do you all think? Any advice, feedback, or recommendations would be really appreciated!

Well as you already have patents pending etc I assume that you know the answers to these questions? Or did you lay huge amounts of cash down on the off chance? This forum does not mind people announcing their new products if they are genuinely novel and interesting. The only thing people will be irritated by is someone constantly plugging the same thing or a service/product that is already commonplace.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Your potential market is limited to the people who really,really need PCBs quickly (or are so paranoid they want to keep everything in house) , can't afford local quick-turn PCB services, and whose requirements fit the limitations of your machine, specifically multilayer, plated holes, laser vias etc.

In practice, the vast majority of PCB users can schedule their development around normal PCB schedules. probably the only ones that really need fast iterations are the RF  wizards.

There's a reason LPKF are pretty much the only people making gear for rapid in-house PCBs

[ebastler]

For the technically curious, there's a published patent application:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20240057260A1
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/84/05/03/320f700d7127bd/US20240057260A1.pdf

Written by a patent attorney who really made sure to cover all options (well, that's their job); so it is not the most helpful text to understand what was actually implemented. Seems like laser ablation to form traces, conventional drilling for vias, vias filled with solder paste or conductive epoxy for top-to-bottom connections.

Edit: This looks like a subset of the technologies offered by LPKF; I did not get where the invention lies. In u-fab's shoes I would also be a bit nervous about potential conflicts with existing LPKF patents. I have not looked into the LPKF patent portfolio at all, but am aware that they have defended their IP in the past.

[temperance]

For the technically curious, there's a published patent application:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20240057260A1
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/84/05/03/320f700d7127bd/US20240057260A1.pdf

Written by a patent attorney who really made sure to cover all options (well, that's their job); so it is not the most helpful text to understand what was actually implemented. Seems like laser ablation to form traces, conventional drilling for vias, vias filled with solder paste or conductive epoxy for top-to-bottom connections.

Edit: This looks like a subset of the technologies offered by LPKF; I did not get where the invention lies. In u-fab's shoes I would also be a bit nervous about potential conflicts with existing LPKF patents. I have not looked into the LPKF patent portfolio at all, but am aware that they have defended their IP in the past.

I fail to see anything novel in the patent. Just the application of existing technology slammed into one rather large machine. I hope you didn't waste to much of dad's money on the patent because laser cutting a conductive pattern in copper clad is nothing new but hobby level technology of which demonstrations can be found on YT for example dating back to at least four years ago. But the machine seems very good because maybe unlike the the hobby machines on YT it can do user-selected patterns. Unfortunately the patent doesn't state if you are allowed to edit the user selected patterns.

[ebastler]

I hope you didn't waste to much of dad's money on the patent

I think they are a bit more serious about this effort:
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ufab-llc

But I share the concerns that this is a difficult market to get into. LPKF is already in that space as the 500-pound gorilla. If the offer is essentially "a subset of LPKF's functionality, at a lower price, but clearly too expensive for hobbyists", that will leave a limited base of potential customers. If there's a risk of conflicts with LPKF's IP, and not a strong own IP position to fend off low-cost competition e.g. from China, that would make things trickier still.