Author Topic: ALLPCB & JLCPCB  (Read 7940 times)

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Offline alexaraujo

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ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« on: September 30, 2021, 11:28:27 pm »
I always buy my PCB JLCPCB, this week I made a new project and decided to test Allpcb and saw that prototype boards are free.

Does anyone know how quality from ALLpcb is?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2021, 11:55:52 pm »
I've not noticed any difference between them. AllPCB have more options
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Online retiredfeline

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2021, 01:49:38 am »
The boards are fine. The free shipping to here at least makes more difference though. However if you want free you have to take the options that go with it: 5 max, and intriguingly, HASL lead-free, which suggests that they are using the margins of panels of larger industrial jobs for freebies. Not to be outdone, JLCPCB has a lower cost shipping option now.
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2021, 03:42:12 am »
. Not to be outdone, JLCPCB has a lower cost shipping option now.
It's not bad either, the parcel gets handed over to aramex/fastway. From uploading gerbers to receiving parcel in rural Qld is around 12~14 calendar days. Great if you're cheap and not in a rush.

Offline alexaraujo

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2021, 11:22:24 am »
Cool plus a purchase option for everyone, the price is acceptable.

For Brazil Allpcb didn't find my zip code so I had to chat over the chat, then Allpcb staff asked me to put the zip code closest to me and inform the correct code in the complementary data.

If my prototype is good I should send them a second.

I'm developing a SoM board in DDR4 format with M3 cortex from NXP, SSD1963 graphics controller and with Phy, this board has 6 layers and impedance control and I hope to do it on Allpcb.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2021, 11:51:57 am »
JLCPCB has issues with PCB solderability. Both ENIG and HASL. Lead-free solder paste often does not cover corners of SMD pads after reflow. Lead-free solder wire, especially with no sliver and weaker flux simply does not like to rapidly flow over the pads. Not an issue when soldering with leaded solder as it flows much better better. Hadn't noticed anything like this from ALLPCB or other manufacturers. Also not just a single bad batch, but there were worse batches than others. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issue as it's the most evident when inspecting the boards or doing soldering under microscope.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 11:54:54 am by wraper »
 

Offline peter-h

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2021, 06:28:57 am »
What is the "aluminium" option at ALLPCB?

EDIT: looked it up - applicable to single sided only.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 08:14:04 am by peter-h »
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Online 48X24X48X

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2021, 12:15:13 pm »
What is the "aluminium" option at ALLPCB?

EDIT: looked it up - applicable to single sided only.
Aluminium board is used mostly whenever a high heat dissipation medium is required. For example LED array board where the heat dissipation from the LED are helped by the board. This helps prolong the lifespan of the components.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2021, 12:23:33 pm »
For example LED array board where the heat dissipation from the LED are helped by the board. This helps prolong the lifespan of the components.
It's not to prolong the lifespan as such. You design the thing to either fit into certain acceptable thermal limits or make an unreliable junk which does not, it can be achieved in different ways. Aluminium PCB acts as a heatsink itself therefore allows higher/denser heat dissipation without using other means of sinking the heat away.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2021, 01:28:39 pm »
What is the "aluminium" option at ALLPCB?

EDIT: looked it up - applicable to single sided only.
Aluminium board is used mostly whenever a high heat dissipation medium is required. For example LED array board where the heat dissipation from the LED are helped by the board. This helps prolong the lifespan of the components.
Also useful if you want a PCB that can be bent to some extent
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Offline alexaraujo

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2021, 01:43:18 pm »
JLCPCB has issues with PCB solderability. Both ENIG and HASL. Lead-free solder paste often does not cover corners of SMD pads after reflow. Lead-free solder wire, especially with no sliver and weaker flux simply does not like to rapidly flow over the pads. Not an issue when soldering with leaded solder as it flows much better better. Hadn't noticed anything like this from ALLPCB or other manufacturers. Also not just a single bad batch, but there were worse batches than others. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issue as it's the most evident when inspecting the boards or doing soldering under microscope.

I had never noticed about this from JLCPCB boards.
This year that I started working with Lead free welds, I will pay more attention because JLCPCB is my main supplier
 

Offline Mangozac

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2021, 11:38:03 pm »
JLCPCB has issues with PCB solderability. Both ENIG and HASL. Lead-free solder paste often does not cover corners of SMD pads after reflow. Lead-free solder wire, especially with no sliver and weaker flux simply does not like to rapidly flow over the pads. Not an issue when soldering with leaded solder as it flows much better better. Hadn't noticed anything like this from ALLPCB or other manufacturers. Also not just a single bad batch, but there were worse batches than others. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issue as it's the most evident when inspecting the boards or doing soldering under microscope.
We only do a couple of lead-free projects and we inspect samples from every batch under a microscope but have never seen this issue. He have them finished in RoHS HASL.
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2021, 07:49:00 pm »
JLCPCB has issues with PCB solderability. Both ENIG and HASL. Lead-free solder paste often does not cover corners of SMD pads after reflow. Lead-free solder wire, especially with no sliver and weaker flux simply does not like to rapidly flow over the pads. Not an issue when soldering with leaded solder as it flows much better better. Hadn't noticed anything like this from ALLPCB or other manufacturers. Also not just a single bad batch, but there were worse batches than others. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issue as it's the most evident when inspecting the boards or doing soldering under microscope.

I've tried to reproduce this, but I cannot and I can't really work out what production variables at JLCPCB could affect this, especially when you mention HASL has the same issue. Was the solder paste stored and prepared correctly? PCB cleaned? Is the PCB designed to IPC standards with the lead into the pad at the recommended parameters?

Do you have any images you can share?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 07:50:48 pm by SteveyG »
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Offline peter-h

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2021, 10:12:47 am »
I have tried to use ALLPCB but their website is basically broken. One cannot enter a UK postcode (the same error message keeps coming up no matter which format is chosen, despite it presenting the exact format I was entering). Other issues with website functionality. Could not get a preview of the PCB.

No response on their chat help.

So after spending an hour, and losing the will to live, I am going back to JLCPCB for now. The cost, some €60 including courier to the UK (five 80x45mm gold plated 2-sided PCBs) is about 2x of ALLPCB, but that's irrelevant.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 02:02:44 pm by peter-h »
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Offline wraper

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2021, 11:48:17 am »
I've tried to reproduce this, but I cannot and I can't really work out what production variables at JLCPCB could affect this, especially when you mention HASL has the same issue. Was the solder paste stored and prepared correctly? PCB cleaned? Is the PCB designed to IPC standards with the lead into the pad at the recommended parameters?

Do you have any images you can share?
They do look completely ok and do solder, but solder does not flow nearly as well/fast as on PCB from other manufacturers. If you hand solder with leaded solder or lead-free with more active flux, most likely you won't notice the difference. It took me a long time to realize there was something wrong with boards from JLCPCB. Paste was Henkel GC-10 and AIM M8, same issue but AIM flowed a little bit better. Here is comparison JLCBCB vs another manufacturer. Both ENIG, same solder paste (GC10 SAC305), same stencil, same oven, same profile.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 12:02:53 pm by wraper »
 

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2021, 01:45:00 pm »
Have been using JLCPCB ENIG for a long time with SAC305, I have never tried their HASL-LF before. They worked fine for me but I'm very peculiar with my paste and change them quite often as I don't refrigerate them, that could be a factor I guess. The only thing I notice is the gold color is not as "gold" as any of my other supplier (AllPCB, HQPCB).
 

Offline peter-h

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2021, 02:06:52 pm »
There are different gold thicknesses in use. Some chinese companies go way down on thickness, and if it is really thin it can be seen as a change of colour.

It depends on what you want the gold for. If it is for edge connectors, you probably want it fairly thick. Really thick gold is used on expensive connectors e.g. the $20 DB9s, when a chinese DB9 can be found for $0.20 :) If it is for solderability after long term storage (desirable if buying PCBs from China, because the companies vanish so frequently that one tends to order a lot, and infrequently, so one has plenty of stock) then thin gold is fine. I find one gets years of shelf life with even the thinnest gold plating.

I stopped buying HASL many years ago. The boards have a poor shelf life and have to be stored in airtight packaging, with silica gel, and that is a hassle. We already do it with chips, of course, baking them if necessary...
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 02:58:07 pm by peter-h »
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Offline alexaraujo

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2021, 12:26:40 am »
I have tried to use ALLPCB but their website is basically broken. One cannot enter a UK postcode (the same error message keeps coming up no matter which format is chosen, despite it presenting the exact format I was entering). Other issues with website functionality. Could not get a preview of the PCB.

No response on their chat help.

So after spending an hour, and losing the will to live, I am going back to JLCPCB for now. The cost, some €60 including courier to the UK (five 80x45mm gold plated 2-sided PCBs) is about 2x of ALLPCB, but that's irrelevant.

for brazil it was the same thing they asked to use the zip code closest to my location and in the address complement the pos code
 

Offline peter-h

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2021, 02:37:06 pm »
"complement the pos code"

I don't understand that.

Let's say your UK postcode is BN12 5AB.

I tried
BN12 5AB
BN12-5AB (as per their example)
BN12-5AB. (literally as per their example)
BN125AB
etc

It's a joke.

I email them about this and they just reply with a free voucher, never reading my email.

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2021, 07:40:48 pm »
I've not had a problem with ALLPCB, but I did set up the account a couple of years ago.
Editing the info seems to work OK though - they seem to have put my postcode into 2 separate boxes - I added it to the text address as well just in case
 
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Offline peter-h

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2021, 07:23:59 am »
ALLPCB emailed me back saying that if I email them my address they can set it up for me.

I don't get why they need to validate postcodes. If a customer can't type their address, they won't get the boards, so you automatically filter out stupid/illiterate customers :)
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Online 48X24X48X

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2021, 08:08:15 am »
ALLPCB emailed me back saying that if I email them my address they can set it up for me.

I don't get why they need to validate postcodes. If a customer can't type their address, they won't get the boards, so you automatically filter out stupid/illiterate customers :)
Some postcodes are considered as remote area by the shipping companies. So, usually this will result in an extra $20-30 to ship to these areas. If they were to charge you like a normal postcode area, then they would have to pay for the extra charge to the shipping companies in the end. Remote areas charges are nightmare for online seller for all sizes, myself been hit many times especially shipping to countries with challenging terrain like NZ or very large like AU.
 

Offline alexaraujo

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2021, 11:45:29 am »
"complement the pos code"

I don't understand that.

Let's say your UK postcode is BN12 5AB.

I tried
BN12 5AB
BN12-5AB (as per their example)
BN12-5AB. (literally as per their example)
BN125AB
etc

It's a joke.

I email them about this and they just reply with a free voucher, never reading my email.

sorry i meant nearest zip code to you.

on the site itself there is a chat and they respond very quickly.

After the order you can wait, as delivery takes a long time.
 

Offline zitt

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2021, 07:03:42 am »
I wanted to try JLCPCB ... what a mistake that was.
I did a design for a product I've been stocking in my store for 5 YEARS. It's a single pcb ... but unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
http://pinball.click/94403cb

I get it; people skirt the rules to get something for free... but this is simply me trying to fill orders for products I've always gotten built without hassle. The effectively doubled the price because they perceived this to be a multiple design product.  :palm:

So; I basically told them to f-off, refund my order, and I'll take my business back to SeeedStudio.
I also told them to cancel my account with their site as this a horrible way to introduce a new customer to your true colors.
 

Offline Mangozac

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Re: ALLPCB & JLCPCB
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2021, 07:28:48 am »
unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
These kind of posts always crack me up (and not just due to the use of the word "yahoo"): JLC make it pretty clear that they charge for having multiple boards in the design: https://jlcpcb.com/quote/pcbOrderFaq/Different%20Design%20in%20Panel

We regularly do breakaway board sets in a single PCB file (easier to pick and place one panel than having to run each board separately) and the surcharge doesn't make them less competitive. So I assume that the people complaining about this are only doing tiny quantities and in which case JLC probably don't care if they get your business or not.
 
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