ALLPCB & JLCPCB

[alexaraujo]

I always buy my PCB JLCPCB, this week I made a new project and decided to test Allpcb and saw that prototype boards are free.

Does anyone know how quality from ALLpcb is?

[mikeselectricstuff]

I've not noticed any difference between them. AllPCB have more options

[retiredfeline]

The boards are fine. The free shipping to here at least makes more difference though. However if you want free you have to take the options that go with it: 5 max, and intriguingly, HASL lead-free, which suggests that they are using the margins of panels of larger industrial jobs for freebies. Not to be outdone, JLCPCB has a lower cost shipping option now.

[johnboxall]

. Not to be outdone, JLCPCB has a lower cost shipping option now.

It's not bad either, the parcel gets handed over to aramex/fastway. From uploading gerbers to receiving parcel in rural Qld is around 12~14 calendar days. Great if you're cheap and not in a rush.

[alexaraujo]

Cool plus a purchase option for everyone, the price is acceptable.

For Brazil Allpcb didn't find my zip code so I had to chat over the chat, then Allpcb staff asked me to put the zip code closest to me and inform the correct code in the complementary data.

If my prototype is good I should send them a second.

I'm developing a SoM board in DDR4 format with M3 cortex from NXP, SSD1963 graphics controller and with Phy, this board has 6 layers and impedance control and I hope to do it on Allpcb.

[wraper]

JLCPCB has issues with PCB solderability. Both ENIG and HASL. Lead-free solder paste often does not cover corners of SMD pads after reflow. Lead-free solder wire, especially with no sliver and weaker flux simply does not like to rapidly flow over the pads. Not an issue when soldering with leaded solder as it flows much better better. Hadn't noticed anything like this from ALLPCB or other manufacturers. Also not just a single bad batch, but there were worse batches than others. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issue as it's the most evident when inspecting the boards or doing soldering under microscope.

[peter-h]

What is the "aluminium" option at ALLPCB?

EDIT: looked it up - applicable to single sided only.

[48X24X48X]

What is the "aluminium" option at ALLPCB?

EDIT: looked it up - applicable to single sided only.

Aluminium board is used mostly whenever a high heat dissipation medium is required. For example LED array board where the heat dissipation from the LED are helped by the board. This helps prolong the lifespan of the components.

[wraper]

For example LED array board where the heat dissipation from the LED are helped by the board. This helps prolong the lifespan of the components.

It's not to prolong the lifespan as such. You design the thing to either fit into certain acceptable thermal limits or make an unreliable junk which does not, it can be achieved in different ways. Aluminium PCB acts as a heatsink itself therefore allows higher/denser heat dissipation without using other means of sinking the heat away.

[mikeselectricstuff]

What is the "aluminium" option at ALLPCB?

EDIT: looked it up - applicable to single sided only.

Aluminium board is used mostly whenever a high heat dissipation medium is required. For example LED array board where the heat dissipation from the LED are helped by the board. This helps prolong the lifespan of the components.

Also useful if you want a PCB that can be bent to some extent

[alexaraujo]

JLCPCB has issues with PCB solderability. Both ENIG and HASL. Lead-free solder paste often does not cover corners of SMD pads after reflow. Lead-free solder wire, especially with no sliver and weaker flux simply does not like to rapidly flow over the pads. Not an issue when soldering with leaded solder as it flows much better better. Hadn't noticed anything like this from ALLPCB or other manufacturers. Also not just a single bad batch, but there were worse batches than others. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issue as it's the most evident when inspecting the boards or doing soldering under microscope.

I had never noticed about this from JLCPCB boards.
This year that I started working with Lead free welds, I will pay more attention because JLCPCB is my main supplier

[Mangozac]

JLCPCB has issues with PCB solderability. Both ENIG and HASL. Lead-free solder paste often does not cover corners of SMD pads after reflow. Lead-free solder wire, especially with no sliver and weaker flux simply does not like to rapidly flow over the pads. Not an issue when soldering with leaded solder as it flows much better better. Hadn't noticed anything like this from ALLPCB or other manufacturers. Also not just a single bad batch, but there were worse batches than others. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issue as it's the most evident when inspecting the boards or doing soldering under microscope.

We only do a couple of lead-free projects and we inspect samples from every batch under a microscope but have never seen this issue. He have them finished in RoHS HASL.

[SteveyG]

JLCPCB has issues with PCB solderability. Both ENIG and HASL. Lead-free solder paste often does not cover corners of SMD pads after reflow. Lead-free solder wire, especially with no sliver and weaker flux simply does not like to rapidly flow over the pads. Not an issue when soldering with leaded solder as it flows much better better. Hadn't noticed anything like this from ALLPCB or other manufacturers. Also not just a single bad batch, but there were worse batches than others. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issue as it's the most evident when inspecting the boards or doing soldering under microscope.

I've tried to reproduce this, but I cannot and I can't really work out what production variables at JLCPCB could affect this, especially when you mention HASL has the same issue. Was the solder paste stored and prepared correctly? PCB cleaned? Is the PCB designed to IPC standards with the lead into the pad at the recommended parameters?

Do you have any images you can share?

[peter-h]

I have tried to use ALLPCB but their website is basically broken. One cannot enter a UK postcode (the same error message keeps coming up no matter which format is chosen, despite it presenting the exact format I was entering). Other issues with website functionality. Could not get a preview of the PCB.

No response on their chat help.

So after spending an hour, and losing the will to live, I am going back to JLCPCB for now. The cost, some €60 including courier to the UK (five 80x45mm gold plated 2-sided PCBs) is about 2x of ALLPCB, but that's irrelevant.

[wraper]

I've tried to reproduce this, but I cannot and I can't really work out what production variables at JLCPCB could affect this, especially when you mention HASL has the same issue. Was the solder paste stored and prepared correctly? PCB cleaned? Is the PCB designed to IPC standards with the lead into the pad at the recommended parameters?

Do you have any images you can share?

They do look completely ok and do solder, but solder does not flow nearly as well/fast as on PCB from other manufacturers. If you hand solder with leaded solder or lead-free with more active flux, most likely you won't notice the difference. It took me a long time to realize there was something wrong with boards from JLCPCB. Paste was Henkel GC-10 and AIM M8, same issue but AIM flowed a little bit better. Here is comparison JLCBCB vs another manufacturer. Both ENIG, same solder paste (GC10 SAC305), same stencil, same oven, same profile.

[48X24X48X]

Have been using JLCPCB ENIG for a long time with SAC305, I have never tried their HASL-LF before. They worked fine for me but I'm very peculiar with my paste and change them quite often as I don't refrigerate them, that could be a factor I guess. The only thing I notice is the gold color is not as "gold" as any of my other supplier (AllPCB, HQPCB).

[peter-h]

There are different gold thicknesses in use. Some chinese companies go way down on thickness, and if it is really thin it can be seen as a change of colour.

It depends on what you want the gold for. If it is for edge connectors, you probably want it fairly thick. Really thick gold is used on expensive connectors e.g. the $20 DB9s, when a chinese DB9 can be found for $0.20 If it is for solderability after long term storage (desirable if buying PCBs from China, because the companies vanish so frequently that one tends to order a lot, and infrequently, so one has plenty of stock) then thin gold is fine. I find one gets years of shelf life with even the thinnest gold plating.

I stopped buying HASL many years ago. The boards have a poor shelf life and have to be stored in airtight packaging, with silica gel, and that is a hassle. We already do it with chips, of course, baking them if necessary...

[alexaraujo]

I have tried to use ALLPCB but their website is basically broken. One cannot enter a UK postcode (the same error message keeps coming up no matter which format is chosen, despite it presenting the exact format I was entering). Other issues with website functionality. Could not get a preview of the PCB.

No response on their chat help.

So after spending an hour, and losing the will to live, I am going back to JLCPCB for now. The cost, some €60 including courier to the UK (five 80x45mm gold plated 2-sided PCBs) is about 2x of ALLPCB, but that's irrelevant.

for brazil it was the same thing they asked to use the zip code closest to my location and in the address complement the pos code

[peter-h]

"complement the pos code"

I don't understand that.

Let's say your UK postcode is BN12 5AB.

I tried
BN12 5AB
BN12-5AB (as per their example)
BN12-5AB. (literally as per their example)
BN125AB
etc

It's a joke.

I email them about this and they just reply with a free voucher, never reading my email.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I've not had a problem with ALLPCB, but I did set up the account a couple of years ago.
Editing the info seems to work OK though - they seem to have put my postcode into 2 separate boxes - I added it to the text address as well just in case
 

[peter-h]

ALLPCB emailed me back saying that if I email them my address they can set it up for me.

I don't get why they need to validate postcodes. If a customer can't type their address, they won't get the boards, so you automatically filter out stupid/illiterate customers

[48X24X48X]

ALLPCB emailed me back saying that if I email them my address they can set it up for me.

I don't get why they need to validate postcodes. If a customer can't type their address, they won't get the boards, so you automatically filter out stupid/illiterate customers

Some postcodes are considered as remote area by the shipping companies. So, usually this will result in an extra $20-30 to ship to these areas. If they were to charge you like a normal postcode area, then they would have to pay for the extra charge to the shipping companies in the end. Remote areas charges are nightmare for online seller for all sizes, myself been hit many times especially shipping to countries with challenging terrain like NZ or very large like AU.

[alexaraujo]

"complement the pos code"

I don't understand that.

Let's say your UK postcode is BN12 5AB.

I tried
BN12 5AB
BN12-5AB (as per their example)
BN12-5AB. (literally as per their example)
BN125AB
etc

It's a joke.

I email them about this and they just reply with a free voucher, never reading my email.

sorry i meant nearest zip code to you.

on the site itself there is a chat and they respond very quickly.

After the order you can wait, as delivery takes a long time.

[zitt]

I wanted to try JLCPCB ... what a mistake that was.
I did a design for a product I've been stocking in my store for 5 YEARS. It's a single pcb ... but unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
http://pinball.click/94403cb

I get it; people skirt the rules to get something for free... but this is simply me trying to fill orders for products I've always gotten built without hassle. The effectively doubled the price because they perceived this to be a multiple design product. 

So; I basically told them to f-off, refund my order, and I'll take my business back to SeeedStudio.
I also told them to cancel my account with their site as this a horrible way to introduce a new customer to your true colors.

[Mangozac]

unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.

These kind of posts always crack me up (and not just due to the use of the word "yahoo"): JLC make it pretty clear that they charge for having multiple boards in the design: https://jlcpcb.com/quote/pcbOrderFaq/Different%20Design%20in%20Panel

We regularly do breakaway board sets in a single PCB file (easier to pick and place one panel than having to run each board separately) and the surcharge doesn't make them less competitive. So I assume that the people complaining about this are only doing tiny quantities and in which case JLC probably don't care if they get your business or not.

[48X24X48X]

I wanted to try JLCPCB ... what a mistake that was.
I did a design for a product I've been stocking in my store for 5 YEARS. It's a single pcb ... but unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
http://pinball.click/94403cb

I get it; people skirt the rules to get something for free... but this is simply me trying to fill orders for products I've always gotten built without hassle. The effectively doubled the price because they perceived this to be a multiple design product. 

So; I basically told them to f-off, refund my order, and I'll take my business back to SeeedStudio.
I also told them to cancel my account with their site as this a horrible way to introduce a new customer to your true colors.

That's a multi-design panel, period. How they charge multi-design, it's their right to do so.
When you submit the order, there's an option to select how many design there are in the submitted gerber. You probably selected 1 design.

[cgroen]

I wanted to try JLCPCB ... what a mistake that was.
I did a design for a product I've been stocking in my store for 5 YEARS. It's a single pcb ... but unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
http://pinball.click/94403cb

I get it; people skirt the rules to get something for free... but this is simply me trying to fill orders for products I've always gotten built without hassle. The effectively doubled the price because they perceived this to be a multiple design product. 

So; I basically told them to f-off, refund my order, and I'll take my business back to SeeedStudio.
I also told them to cancel my account with their site as this a horrible way to introduce a new customer to your true colors.

First, whether your design has been in stock in your store for 1, 5 or 100 years probably does not matter much in this regard.

Secondly, when I saw your PCB, my first thought was that this is a multiboard design that is meant to be broken in separate PCBs, how should JLCPCB not be thinking the same ?

Now, IF you were aware that JLCPCB do not allow multiple designs in a single file,  you COULD have told them (up front) that it was a true single board design. I bet they would have done it like a single PCB.
In 2 days from now I'm taking delivery of my design number 224 from JLCPCB, I have during these designs, not had a SINGLE complaint on their services! IF you follow their guidelines to the point, all is ok. If you need to deviate from their normal way of doing things, ask them first, or make a note in the "note section" when uploading your design.

I'm sure if you were polite and didn't tell them to "f off" they would have helped you. Anyway, Seedstudio is probably better for you to use

EDIT: I just read the response by Kean below mine,  its even in your own doc that it is a multiboard design 

[Kean]

because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.

Your design is literally 5 separate PCBs connected with mouse bites.  Your own documentations states this:

Begin by snapping the boards apart.  They should easily snap along the holes in the center of the FR4 material.  Once the boards are snapped; clean the "mouse bites" off the PCBs using a dremel or belt sander.

JLC make it quite clear that there is additional costs for processing multiple design PCB files - it is just how they do things.
Also that PCB is a really odd shape making routing, handling, and shipping more complex.

[enjoy.cowboy]

Fellow countryman here waiting on reports about shipping time and taxation. Did you get just the PCB or did you get it assembled?

[zitt]

Ya'll are funny.
I really don't care WHAT JCLPCB thinks is a multi board design.
A single LED on board which is then routed by wires is not a multi board design.
If you guys think it is... then well; you're part of the problem.

JCLPCB is garbage - it's my personal opinion based upon this job interview.
You are clearly entitled to your opinion; but the only one that matters is mine as I'm the paying customer.
So; sure Fanboi's of JLCPCB unite... I just wanted people to be aware they aren't all that and a bag of wax.

>> didn't tell them to "f off" they would have helped you.
I did try to discuss this calmly ... but alas; they have the same attitude you did.
I'm not looking to "explain" why to them or you. Their or your opinion on what I consider a multi-design is irrelvant.
They offered to upcharge me... I declined and demanded a refund.

OSHPark has zero issues and do not upcharge for a design like this. Infact no one else has. So Meh. whatever.

[nigelwright7557]

I have had trouble soldering my latest batch from JLCPCB
When I looked into it its just crap ebay solder as its blobbing instead of flowng.
Looks like lack of flux in the solder.
Neilsen solder is usually pretty good but this reel is terrible.
I have 2 reels so I will check out the other one and if thats crap wont be buying any more.

[cgroen]

....
Their or your opinion on what I consider a multi-design is irrelvant.
...

I'm not sure their opinion on what a multiboard design is, is irrelevant, as you found out 
Anyway, its always "the others fault, and you are not to blame".....
Good luck with your "non-multiboard design" 

[48X24X48X]

One of the reason why multi design is more expensive is the tab/mouse bite you made might be too fragile for production handling. So, if customer expect these to be delivered in a panel but the tab/mouse bite are not properly designed to a required standard, the panel might break. So, they probably had to produce more to account for this possible defect. If people think JLCPCB is expensive, I'm sure they haven't touch any other more premium PCB factories in China. Even more premium PCB factories told me, if your volume is small to medium, just stick to JLCPCB else the price will not scale to their pricing accordingly.

[thinkfat]

You are clearly entitled to your opinion; but the only one that matters is mine as I'm the paying customer.

I feel with you. I get the same behavior from my 8-year-old when he doesn't get what he wants and throws a tantrum. Ah yes, life in a world of grown-ups must be hard.

[xavier60]

You are clearly entitled to your opinion; but the only one that matters is mine as I'm the paying customer.

I feel with you. I get the same behavior from my 8-year-old when he doesn't get what he wants and throws a tantrum. Ah yes, life in a world of grown-ups must be hard.

An unnecessary attack.

[alexaraujo]

One of the reason why multi design is more expensive is the tab/mouse bite you made might be too fragile for production handling. So, if customer expect these to be delivered in a panel but the tab/mouse bite are not properly designed to a required standard, the panel might break. So, they probably had to produce more to account for this possible defect. If people think JLCPCB is expensive, I'm sure they haven't touch any other more premium PCB factories in China. Even more premium PCB factories told me, if your volume is small to medium, just stick to JLCPCB else the price will not scale to their pricing accordingly.

what hole diameter and hole spacing do you think is safe to make a "mouse bite" not brittle on a panel?

[alexaraujo]

The customer is always right, but he should be ignored when he wants a cow in the tree. And unfortunately it was your case with its multi layout board , but try other suppliers and looking for new ones is never a waste of time.

Due to some delays by DHL in delivery that mixed my order from JLCPCB and my plates were going back and forth from the US to Brazil, I ended up discovering a supplier with JLCPCB price in Brazil due to the urgency of the situation, and since that day I have been testing the quality of this supplier .

[thinkfat]

You are clearly entitled to your opinion; but the only one that matters is mine as I'm the paying customer.

I feel with you. I get the same behavior from my 8-year-old when he doesn't get what he wants and throws a tantrum. Ah yes, life in a world of grown-ups must be hard.

An unnecessary attack.

'Karen' is not restricted to females. I reserve my right to call them out when I see them.

[wraper]

Ya'll are funny.
I really don't care WHAT JCLPCB thinks is a multi board design.
A single LED on board which is then routed by wires is not a multi board design.

Yes it is a multi-board design. If a piece of PCB is intended to be separated, then it is an another board/design. Not to say there are a lot more parts on different PCBs, not just a single LED as you say. I'd say there are 5 different designs, not 4. Maybe they gave you a leeway and counted 2 different single LED PCBs as one.

[Siwastaja]

Yeah, I understand having different opinion about the pricing model and I'm not a big fan of multiboard fee myself, but being pathological liar is another thing. First lie about the thing not actually being multi-board design, just looking like one, when you yourself have proved otherwise, in writing. Then lie about the whole design having just a single LED, again completely obvious lie if just just look at the images. I don't get it. 

And no, I have never used JLCPCB so far, and no, as I said, I don't like the pricing model but it's their choice and documented well enough. Trying to get past it by lying, then continue lying when your attempt for free ride is caught, no dice.

[kellogs]

My experience with AllPCB has ended before the first order:


Gone into the dreaded missing postal codes and wonky town names that I have been reading about on the internet with AllPCB.

Day 1, Attempt 1
Opened a ticket to see what was to be done.

Got an answer the next day

Hi dear,


Thank you for choosing ALLPCB. Nice to meet you. I am your exclusive sales representative -------.


ALLPCB has five years of rich experience in the main business of PCB, PCBA, FPC, flexible and rigid board.

Click the link below to view our PCBA factory (VR perspective):

https://case.hongqivr.com/jiefang-en/


---Now we have an activity about free proofing.You can experience FREE prototype + FREE shipping service this month,

as long as your prototype meets the following requirements,

Aluminum board, 1-2 layer board (FR-4), 5pcs, Standard Requirements，≤100*150mm.


---In addition, after you have an actual paid order,

you can still get the  FREE prototype + FREE shipping service every month for the next six months.


If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me.


Best regards

-------

Customer service staff

Unfortunately unrelated to the ticket


Day 1, attempt 2
I went at the live chat, picked 'technical support' as none of the other two were online, wrote two hellos, live chat session ended with no response from them

Day 2, attempt 3

Service4 13:03
Hello. How may I help you?

ME 13:04
hello anybody there
?

avatar
Service4 13:05
here

ME 13:05
should I still wait for an answer on Ticket #7A8S9 ?

avatar
Service4 13:05
order number, pls

ME 13:06
there is none

avatar
Service4 13:07
so what is Ticket #7A8S9 ?

ME 13:07
open it and check, pls

avatar
Service4 13:10
DO you have customer ID here?

ME 13:12
yes
-------
ID: --------

avatar
Service4 13:13
can you express your questions clearly
I am sry that I do not know what happened to your order

ME 13:14
there is no order, my request has been created under ticket #7A8S9. And it looks like you do not have access to that ticket
Very odd

[no more replies]

I guess 3 attempts is enough. I have moved on.

[tszaboo]

I wanted to try JLCPCB ... what a mistake that was.
I did a design for a product I've been stocking in my store for 5 YEARS. It's a single pcb ... but unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
http://pinball.click/94403cb

I get it; people skirt the rules to get something for free... but this is simply me trying to fill orders for products I've always gotten built without hassle. The effectively doubled the price because they perceived this to be a multiple design product. 

So; I basically told them to f-off, refund my order, and I'll take my business back to SeeedStudio.
I also told them to cancel my account with their site as this a horrible way to introduce a new customer to your true colors.

Don't worry, it is not just you. Every time I ordered from JLCPCB, they found something and increased the price. Last time it was "Too much milling". The only reason I go back to them is that they provide DDP shipping. It's like the Ryanair of PCB houses.

[peter-h]

JLCPCB are ok for prototyping, and no more. I asked them to quote for 1k circuits on 8-up panels, with specified breakout tabs, and they said they don't do anything like that.

[Kean]

JLCPCB are ok for prototyping, and no more. I asked them to quote for 1k circuits on 8-up panels, with specified breakout tabs, and they said they don't do anything like that.

I suspect miscommunication.  Their ordering page allows ordering of panels in qty of 10's of thousands.
While they can do simple panels, if you have specific routing or tabs requirements then you should arrange the panelisation yourself, and submit panel gerbers.

[cgroen]

JLCPCB are ok for prototyping, and no more. I asked them to quote for 1k circuits on 8-up panels, with specified breakout tabs, and they said they don't do anything like that.

I suspect miscommunication.  Their ordering page allows ordering of panels in qty of 10's of thousands.
While they can do simple panels, if you have specific routing or tabs requirements then you should arrange the panelisation yourself, and submit panel gerbers.

Indeed, I have ordered projects in the 1000's at JLCPCB, no worries.

[thm_w]

Don't worry, it is not just you. Every time I ordered from JLCPCB, they found something and increased the price. Last time it was "Too much milling". The only reason I go back to them is that they provide DDP shipping. It's like the Ryanair of PCB houses.

Lets see a photo of how much milling we are talking about.

[thm_w]

Just adding recent shipment here in case its relevant to anyone in Canada:

JLCPCB, ordered Nov 22, delivered: Dec 1st (DHL) - 9 days
LCSC ordered Nov 20, delivered: Dec 2nd (Global Direct Standard Line) - 10 days

Value of JLC: $19 CAD + ship, no duties charged (correct)
Value of LCSC: $50 CAD + ship, no duties charged (sneaky..)

[nigelwright7557]

Had my first problem with JLCPCB recently and been with them for years.

They sent a message saying one of the pcb's was damaged in production and they would give me a voucher off next pcb.
All great no problem, these things happen.
So got pcb's through post and posted them off to my customer.
Next thing I know customer is complaining taht one of the pcb's has a 6mm hole right through the pcb and a track.
Looks like JLPCB put teh bad pcb in the box instead of throwing it out !
A bad pcb is no good to me.
As they are by far the cheapest and best quality (usually) I will let it go this time.

[thm_w]

Had my first problem with JLCPCB recently and been with them for years.

They sent a message saying one of the pcb's was damaged in production and they would give me a voucher off next pcb.
All great no problem, these things happen.
So got pcb's through post and posted them off to my customer.
Next thing I know customer is complaining taht one of the pcb's has a 6mm hole right through the pcb and a track.
Looks like JLPCB put teh bad pcb in the box instead of throwing it out !
A bad pcb is no good to me.
As they are by far the cheapest and best quality (usually) I will let it go this time.

How many did you get?
I mean it is pointless to ship it to you, but if you paid for 5 and you got 4 good ones and 1 bad one and a voucher, that seems completely fair.

Maybe they thought there was a chance you could use it, wanted to see the damage, etc.

[SteveyG]

Had my first problem with JLCPCB recently and been with them for years.

They sent a message saying one of the pcb's was damaged in production and they would give me a voucher off next pcb.
All great no problem, these things happen.
So got pcb's through post and posted them off to my customer.
Next thing I know customer is complaining taht one of the pcb's has a 6mm hole right through the pcb and a track.
Looks like JLPCB put teh bad pcb in the box instead of throwing it out !
A bad pcb is no good to me.
As they are by far the cheapest and best quality (usually) I will let it go this time.

How many did you get?
I mean it is pointless to ship it to you, but if you paid for 5 and you got 4 good ones and 1 bad one and a voucher, that seems completely fair.

Maybe they thought there was a chance you could use it, wanted to see the damage, etc.

They normally give the option of a voucher or waiting for the damaged/missing board. It doesn't usually get shipped out though if it's damaged, hopefully they didn't throw away one of the good ones!

[wraper]

They normally give the option of a voucher or waiting for the damaged/missing board. It doesn't usually get shipped out though if it's damaged, hopefully they didn't throw away one of the good ones!

The last few times I ordered, they consistently screwed with one of the items I ordered and just provided the voucher, and did not ask if reduced quantity is OK for me.

[Kean]

Had my first problem with JLCPCB recently and been with them for years.

They sent a message saying one of the pcb's was damaged in production and they would give me a voucher off next pcb.
All great no problem, these things happen.
So got pcb's through post and posted them off to my customer.
Next thing I know customer is complaining taht one of the pcb's has a 6mm hole right through the pcb and a track.
Looks like JLPCB put teh bad pcb in the box instead of throwing it out !
A bad pcb is no good to me.
As they are by far the cheapest and best quality (usually) I will let it go this time.

So you are using a budget supplier and not doing any incoming QC before shipping to your customer?

[johnboxall]

JLC are great for those mad ideas you want a board for, or an early prototype, or something nobody with an electrical education is going to see.

They can't print our logo on silkscreen to save their life, always missing a line or two through it. When it's serious time, go somewhere else. And lately, the HASL finish seems to have changed so you need an increased temperature to solder properly.

[DavidAlfa]

I've made several panellized pcbs with no extra cost in the last years.
Yep, sometimes they will ask for more money... When that happens, I cancel the order and try again, it'll eventually pass







However, I recently wanted to try some BGA devices.
Before doing the whole thing, I made some routing tests to ensure my design rules were up to spec.
I select "Pay after reviewing", so in theory the system should review the gerbers ensuring it mets their tolerances and capabilities.
Surprisingly (Or not, chinesium QA, huh), the system approves anything I throw at it.
I intentionally made ridiculous 1th thin traces and 0.1mm vias! And the system says everything's ok, ready for production! Wtf?
So they either re-check it after you pay, or they don't check anything at all, so good luck if you mess something up in the design rules.
Here's an example of what they approved! It's a BGA with 0.8mm pitch, 0.4mm pads.



So how are you really ensuring the DRC is met?

[thm_w]

I've made several panellized pcbs with no extra cost in the last years.
Yep, sometimes they will ask for more money... When that happens, I cancel the order and try again, it'll eventually pass

lol

So how are you really ensuring the DRC is met?

I seriously don't understand why they don't have automated DRC in place. They could pop up a warning or prevent you from submitting the gerbers. The website hints that it will do that, but it never does, as you say.

Instead what happened (to me at least), is they manually or automatically cropped my traces to fit within the clearance rules. Which was OK, but, if they had popped up a warning I could have just checked my rules were wrong and adjusted them.. odd. I've seen other posts here where they instead rejected the design.

[c64]

The boards are fine. The free shipping to here at least makes more difference though. However if you want free you have to take the options that go with it: 5 max, and intriguingly, HASL lead-free, which suggests that they are using the margins of panels of larger industrial jobs for freebies. Not to be outdone, JLCPCB has a lower cost shipping option now.

What is the total cost for 5 pcb with free shipping?

[johnboxall]

The boards are fine. The free shipping to here at least makes more difference though. However if you want free you have to take the options that go with it: 5 max, and intriguingly, HASL lead-free, which suggests that they are using the margins of panels of larger industrial jobs for freebies. Not to be outdone, JLCPCB has a lower cost shipping option now.

What is the total cost for 5 pcb with free shipping?

Up to 100 x 100mm, green, 2 layer, etc., usual settings US$5.90 to Australia. Takes about two calendar weeks to arrive, last mile is usually by Aramex. You can upload your own gerbers and get a quote before putting in any payment information.

[peter-h]

"I suspect miscommunication.  Their ordering page allows ordering of panels in qty of 10's of thousands.
While they can do simple panels, if you have specific routing or tabs requirements then you should arrange the panelisation yourself, and submit panel gerbers."

Sure one can order any quantity but JLC have specifically stated that they will not read any English (or perhaps any text) on the layers, which to me says that one cannot send them any dimensioned drawings.

They are fine for prototyping and I have just ordered another 10 boards, with 4/4 rules, and they are great value at about $3 each, plus stencils and very cheap Fedex shipping. But somebody else gets the volume. And there are plenty of chinese firms who want that business.

[Mangozac]

I don't understand people suggesting JLC is not suitable for volume orders. The only way they can provide the prototype boards so cheaply is the sheer volume of production panels they do!

We regularly order batches in the thousands from them and I personally know several other companies that do as well. Even with complex panel routing (which doesn't require text annotation except for v-groove indications) there are no issues. If I do something really out of the ordinary they have contacted me to confirm my intention.

We've only once had an issue with JLC boards and in that case it was fortunately only a prototype panel where the through hole plate had somehow been separated from the pad on a specific set of holes.

[48X24X48X]

We used JLCPCB for both prototype and volume in the thousand. But we do have other higher end supplier that has admitted that it's best to use JLCPCB for prototype as they can't compete on their prices. Other suppliers can also be cheap but if you place larger order and repeat order. This will removed the setup fee and test jig (if not using flying probe). That leaves your cost per board to a ridiculous few cents depending on your layer and specifications.

[cgroen]

Same story here, a lot of prototypes and a lot of "1000's" orders from JLC (and from PCBWAY)

[AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest]

Thanks for sharing experiences of using JLC. I have been using PCBWAY quite a lot, but after the summer they started to have more issues than is acceptable. I was going to use JLC, but maybe I will try ALLPCB. They also have a premium option that looks good.

A

[alexaraujo]

I was thinking about doing a test with PCBWAY

[alexaraujo]

We could do a poll to vote based on our experiences with PCI manufacturers.

JLCPCB
ALLPCB
PCBWAY

Today I buy 5,000 boards a year from JLCPCB but I have been looking for alternatives because I had small delays from them and ridiculous questioning of batches already produced by them.

[AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest]

My project PCBs are very similar in parameters and characteristics. One month ago PCBWay doubled the price. Today, I took a quote from ALLPCB and it is 1/4 of that price. And I am talking about premium/advanced PCBs (not $2-$5 products).

Looking forward to see the quality/service/lead time/etc.
A

[kellogs]

Am I mistaken or JLC used to wrap stencils between two hard cardboard pieces ? It is the second time stencil arrives wrinkled.

[Mangozac]

Am I mistaken or JLC used to wrap stencils between two hard cardboard pieces ? It is the second time stencil arrives wrinkled.

Ours still come sandwiched between pieces of MDF spoilboard.

[fourfathom]

Am I mistaken or JLC used to wrap stencils between two hard cardboard pieces ? It is the second time stencil arrives wrinkled.

Ours still come sandwiched between pieces of MDF spoilboard.

As have mine (MDF), most recently two weeks ago.  Arrived in good shape.

[Kean]

Am I mistaken or JLC used to wrap stencils between two hard cardboard pieces ? It is the second time stencil arrives wrinkled.

I could be a side effect of the shipping method you chose?

Mine always come between used MDF spoilboard sheets with interesting drill patterns, but I almost always use DHL except for occasional non-urgent PCB reorders.

[48X24X48X]

The empty space they use a Styrofoam and and the side flushed with the stencil they use leftover MDF from their drilling PCB process. This is with framed stencil.
Without frame, they just dumped it inside their blue box.

[DavidAlfa]

Was anyone able to route 0.45mm pad, 0.8mm pitch bga parts with the cheap 4 layer rules?
(0.45mm vias, 0.127mm trace width/spacing).
Pictures of the routed footprint would be appreciated.

[PlainName]

Necro-quote, sorry, but I think you played this wrong.

My experience with AllPCB has ended before the first order:

...
ME 13:05
should I still wait for an answer on Ticket #7A8S9 ?

avatar
Service4 13:05
order number, pls

ME 13:06
there is none

avatar
Service4 13:07
so what is Ticket #7A8S9 ?

ME 13:07
open it and check, pls

avatar
Service4 13:10
DO you have customer ID here?

ME 13:12
yes
-------
ID: --------

avatar
Service4 13:13
can you express your questions clearly
I am sry that I do not know what happened to your order

ME 13:14
there is no order, my request has been created under ticket #7A8S9. And it looks like you do not have access to that ticket
Very odd

I don't see the point of trying to catch out support with this passive aggressive shit. When he asks what the ticket is, why not just tell him? In fact, I had this very situation today (but with Axminster UK) and my approach was to say, this is  my problem and BTW I have a ticket already raised for it (ref xxx). Fixed my problem, maybe yours could have been too if you'd allowed it.

[AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest]

Well... I have now one order experience with ALLPCB (sales support and ordering).
As the first comment, I got an impression that the sales support on chat is not much more than delivering requests to actual sales representatives. At least, they did know much more than what I can read from the web page. And this is ok. First level support is what it is. Everywhere.
The assigned sales representative replied back in no time and gave me all the details I asked. Even contacted me afterwards to check that everything is in order. So, for me the service has been spot on. Based on all the parameters so far, I will probably use ALLPCB as my primary supplier from now on.

A

[Jester]

I have used ALL PCB for about 15 orders of 2&4 layer boards, all simple with 8/8 width/spacing Boards were all pretty decent quality. I had one batch populated ( parts supplied by ALL) that had some 0.5mm spacing parts, all good with only two small issues, one through hole component on one board was not soldered on one lead. All of the boards worked fine after fixing the one solder joint. The other issue was that the boards were not as clean as they should be, white residue that does not clean up well with alcohol.

I actually had a phone call from ALL in China this morning, asking me if I was happy with service and quality, they sent me a follow up email.

I will use them again.