ALLPCB & JLCPCB

[48X24X48X]

I wanted to try JLCPCB ... what a mistake that was.
I did a design for a product I've been stocking in my store for 5 YEARS. It's a single pcb ... but unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
http://pinball.click/94403cb

I get it; people skirt the rules to get something for free... but this is simply me trying to fill orders for products I've always gotten built without hassle. The effectively doubled the price because they perceived this to be a multiple design product. 

So; I basically told them to f-off, refund my order, and I'll take my business back to SeeedStudio.
I also told them to cancel my account with their site as this a horrible way to introduce a new customer to your true colors.

That's a multi-design panel, period. How they charge multi-design, it's their right to do so.
When you submit the order, there's an option to select how many design there are in the submitted gerber. You probably selected 1 design.

[cgroen]

I wanted to try JLCPCB ... what a mistake that was.
I did a design for a product I've been stocking in my store for 5 YEARS. It's a single pcb ... but unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
http://pinball.click/94403cb

I get it; people skirt the rules to get something for free... but this is simply me trying to fill orders for products I've always gotten built without hassle. The effectively doubled the price because they perceived this to be a multiple design product. 

So; I basically told them to f-off, refund my order, and I'll take my business back to SeeedStudio.
I also told them to cancel my account with their site as this a horrible way to introduce a new customer to your true colors.

First, whether your design has been in stock in your store for 1, 5 or 100 years probably does not matter much in this regard.

Secondly, when I saw your PCB, my first thought was that this is a multiboard design that is meant to be broken in separate PCBs, how should JLCPCB not be thinking the same ?

Now, IF you were aware that JLCPCB do not allow multiple designs in a single file,  you COULD have told them (up front) that it was a true single board design. I bet they would have done it like a single PCB.
In 2 days from now I'm taking delivery of my design number 224 from JLCPCB, I have during these designs, not had a SINGLE complaint on their services! IF you follow their guidelines to the point, all is ok. If you need to deviate from their normal way of doing things, ask them first, or make a note in the "note section" when uploading your design.

I'm sure if you were polite and didn't tell them to "f off" they would have helped you. Anyway, Seedstudio is probably better for you to use

EDIT: I just read the response by Kean below mine,  its even in your own doc that it is a multiboard design 

[Kean]

because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.

Your design is literally 5 separate PCBs connected with mouse bites.  Your own documentations states this:

Begin by snapping the boards apart.  They should easily snap along the holes in the center of the FR4 material.  Once the boards are snapped; clean the "mouse bites" off the PCBs using a dremel or belt sander.

JLC make it quite clear that there is additional costs for processing multiple design PCB files - it is just how they do things.
Also that PCB is a really odd shape making routing, handling, and shipping more complex.

[enjoy.cowboy]

Fellow countryman here waiting on reports about shipping time and taxation. Did you get just the PCB or did you get it assembled?

[zitt]

Ya'll are funny.
I really don't care WHAT JCLPCB thinks is a multi board design.
A single LED on board which is then routed by wires is not a multi board design.
If you guys think it is... then well; you're part of the problem.

JCLPCB is garbage - it's my personal opinion based upon this job interview.
You are clearly entitled to your opinion; but the only one that matters is mine as I'm the paying customer.
So; sure Fanboi's of JLCPCB unite... I just wanted people to be aware they aren't all that and a bag of wax.

>> didn't tell them to "f off" they would have helped you.
I did try to discuss this calmly ... but alas; they have the same attitude you did.
I'm not looking to "explain" why to them or you. Their or your opinion on what I consider a multi-design is irrelvant.
They offered to upcharge me... I declined and demanded a refund.

OSHPark has zero issues and do not upcharge for a design like this. Infact no one else has. So Meh. whatever.

[nigelwright7557]

I have had trouble soldering my latest batch from JLCPCB
When I looked into it its just crap ebay solder as its blobbing instead of flowng.
Looks like lack of flux in the solder.
Neilsen solder is usually pretty good but this reel is terrible.
I have 2 reels so I will check out the other one and if thats crap wont be buying any more.

[cgroen]

....
Their or your opinion on what I consider a multi-design is irrelvant.
...

I'm not sure their opinion on what a multiboard design is, is irrelevant, as you found out 
Anyway, its always "the others fault, and you are not to blame".....
Good luck with your "non-multiboard design" 

[48X24X48X]

One of the reason why multi design is more expensive is the tab/mouse bite you made might be too fragile for production handling. So, if customer expect these to be delivered in a panel but the tab/mouse bite are not properly designed to a required standard, the panel might break. So, they probably had to produce more to account for this possible defect. If people think JLCPCB is expensive, I'm sure they haven't touch any other more premium PCB factories in China. Even more premium PCB factories told me, if your volume is small to medium, just stick to JLCPCB else the price will not scale to their pricing accordingly.

[thinkfat]

You are clearly entitled to your opinion; but the only one that matters is mine as I'm the paying customer.

I feel with you. I get the same behavior from my 8-year-old when he doesn't get what he wants and throws a tantrum. Ah yes, life in a world of grown-ups must be hard.

[xavier60]

You are clearly entitled to your opinion; but the only one that matters is mine as I'm the paying customer.

I feel with you. I get the same behavior from my 8-year-old when he doesn't get what he wants and throws a tantrum. Ah yes, life in a world of grown-ups must be hard.

An unnecessary attack.

[alexaraujo]

One of the reason why multi design is more expensive is the tab/mouse bite you made might be too fragile for production handling. So, if customer expect these to be delivered in a panel but the tab/mouse bite are not properly designed to a required standard, the panel might break. So, they probably had to produce more to account for this possible defect. If people think JLCPCB is expensive, I'm sure they haven't touch any other more premium PCB factories in China. Even more premium PCB factories told me, if your volume is small to medium, just stick to JLCPCB else the price will not scale to their pricing accordingly.

what hole diameter and hole spacing do you think is safe to make a "mouse bite" not brittle on a panel?

[alexaraujo]

The customer is always right, but he should be ignored when he wants a cow in the tree. And unfortunately it was your case with its multi layout board , but try other suppliers and looking for new ones is never a waste of time.

Due to some delays by DHL in delivery that mixed my order from JLCPCB and my plates were going back and forth from the US to Brazil, I ended up discovering a supplier with JLCPCB price in Brazil due to the urgency of the situation, and since that day I have been testing the quality of this supplier .

[thinkfat]

You are clearly entitled to your opinion; but the only one that matters is mine as I'm the paying customer.

I feel with you. I get the same behavior from my 8-year-old when he doesn't get what he wants and throws a tantrum. Ah yes, life in a world of grown-ups must be hard.

An unnecessary attack.

'Karen' is not restricted to females. I reserve my right to call them out when I see them.

[wraper]

Ya'll are funny.
I really don't care WHAT JCLPCB thinks is a multi board design.
A single LED on board which is then routed by wires is not a multi board design.

Yes it is a multi-board design. If a piece of PCB is intended to be separated, then it is an another board/design. Not to say there are a lot more parts on different PCBs, not just a single LED as you say. I'd say there are 5 different designs, not 4. Maybe they gave you a leeway and counted 2 different single LED PCBs as one.

[Siwastaja]

Yeah, I understand having different opinion about the pricing model and I'm not a big fan of multiboard fee myself, but being pathological liar is another thing. First lie about the thing not actually being multi-board design, just looking like one, when you yourself have proved otherwise, in writing. Then lie about the whole design having just a single LED, again completely obvious lie if just just look at the images. I don't get it. 

And no, I have never used JLCPCB so far, and no, as I said, I don't like the pricing model but it's their choice and documented well enough. Trying to get past it by lying, then continue lying when your attempt for free ride is caught, no dice.

[kellogs]

My experience with AllPCB has ended before the first order:


Gone into the dreaded missing postal codes and wonky town names that I have been reading about on the internet with AllPCB.

Day 1, Attempt 1
Opened a ticket to see what was to be done.

Got an answer the next day

Hi dear,


Thank you for choosing ALLPCB. Nice to meet you. I am your exclusive sales representative -------.


ALLPCB has five years of rich experience in the main business of PCB, PCBA, FPC, flexible and rigid board.

Click the link below to view our PCBA factory (VR perspective):

https://case.hongqivr.com/jiefang-en/


---Now we have an activity about free proofing.You can experience FREE prototype + FREE shipping service this month,

as long as your prototype meets the following requirements,

Aluminum board, 1-2 layer board (FR-4), 5pcs, Standard Requirements，≤100*150mm.


---In addition, after you have an actual paid order,

you can still get the  FREE prototype + FREE shipping service every month for the next six months.


If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me.


Best regards

-------

Customer service staff

Unfortunately unrelated to the ticket


Day 1, attempt 2
I went at the live chat, picked 'technical support' as none of the other two were online, wrote two hellos, live chat session ended with no response from them

Day 2, attempt 3

Service4 13:03
Hello. How may I help you?

ME 13:04
hello anybody there
?

avatar
Service4 13:05
here

ME 13:05
should I still wait for an answer on Ticket #7A8S9 ?

avatar
Service4 13:05
order number, pls

ME 13:06
there is none

avatar
Service4 13:07
so what is Ticket #7A8S9 ?

ME 13:07
open it and check, pls

avatar
Service4 13:10
DO you have customer ID here?

ME 13:12
yes
-------
ID: --------

avatar
Service4 13:13
can you express your questions clearly
I am sry that I do not know what happened to your order

ME 13:14
there is no order, my request has been created under ticket #7A8S9. And it looks like you do not have access to that ticket
Very odd

[no more replies]

I guess 3 attempts is enough. I have moved on.

[tszaboo]

I wanted to try JLCPCB ... what a mistake that was.
I did a design for a product I've been stocking in my store for 5 YEARS. It's a single pcb ... but unexpectedly these yahoos demanded more money because it appeared to them that I had 4 designs in the single PCB.
http://pinball.click/94403cb

I get it; people skirt the rules to get something for free... but this is simply me trying to fill orders for products I've always gotten built without hassle. The effectively doubled the price because they perceived this to be a multiple design product. 

So; I basically told them to f-off, refund my order, and I'll take my business back to SeeedStudio.
I also told them to cancel my account with their site as this a horrible way to introduce a new customer to your true colors.

Don't worry, it is not just you. Every time I ordered from JLCPCB, they found something and increased the price. Last time it was "Too much milling". The only reason I go back to them is that they provide DDP shipping. It's like the Ryanair of PCB houses.

[peter-h]

JLCPCB are ok for prototyping, and no more. I asked them to quote for 1k circuits on 8-up panels, with specified breakout tabs, and they said they don't do anything like that.

[Kean]

JLCPCB are ok for prototyping, and no more. I asked them to quote for 1k circuits on 8-up panels, with specified breakout tabs, and they said they don't do anything like that.

I suspect miscommunication.  Their ordering page allows ordering of panels in qty of 10's of thousands.
While they can do simple panels, if you have specific routing or tabs requirements then you should arrange the panelisation yourself, and submit panel gerbers.

[cgroen]

JLCPCB are ok for prototyping, and no more. I asked them to quote for 1k circuits on 8-up panels, with specified breakout tabs, and they said they don't do anything like that.

I suspect miscommunication.  Their ordering page allows ordering of panels in qty of 10's of thousands.
While they can do simple panels, if you have specific routing or tabs requirements then you should arrange the panelisation yourself, and submit panel gerbers.

Indeed, I have ordered projects in the 1000's at JLCPCB, no worries.

[thm_w]

Don't worry, it is not just you. Every time I ordered from JLCPCB, they found something and increased the price. Last time it was "Too much milling". The only reason I go back to them is that they provide DDP shipping. It's like the Ryanair of PCB houses.

Lets see a photo of how much milling we are talking about.

[thm_w]

Just adding recent shipment here in case its relevant to anyone in Canada:

JLCPCB, ordered Nov 22, delivered: Dec 1st (DHL) - 9 days
LCSC ordered Nov 20, delivered: Dec 2nd (Global Direct Standard Line) - 10 days

Value of JLC: $19 CAD + ship, no duties charged (correct)
Value of LCSC: $50 CAD + ship, no duties charged (sneaky..)

[nigelwright7557]

Had my first problem with JLCPCB recently and been with them for years.

They sent a message saying one of the pcb's was damaged in production and they would give me a voucher off next pcb.
All great no problem, these things happen.
So got pcb's through post and posted them off to my customer.
Next thing I know customer is complaining taht one of the pcb's has a 6mm hole right through the pcb and a track.
Looks like JLPCB put teh bad pcb in the box instead of throwing it out !
A bad pcb is no good to me.
As they are by far the cheapest and best quality (usually) I will let it go this time.

[thm_w]

Had my first problem with JLCPCB recently and been with them for years.

They sent a message saying one of the pcb's was damaged in production and they would give me a voucher off next pcb.
All great no problem, these things happen.
So got pcb's through post and posted them off to my customer.
Next thing I know customer is complaining taht one of the pcb's has a 6mm hole right through the pcb and a track.
Looks like JLPCB put teh bad pcb in the box instead of throwing it out !
A bad pcb is no good to me.
As they are by far the cheapest and best quality (usually) I will let it go this time.

How many did you get?
I mean it is pointless to ship it to you, but if you paid for 5 and you got 4 good ones and 1 bad one and a voucher, that seems completely fair.

Maybe they thought there was a chance you could use it, wanted to see the damage, etc.

[SteveyG]

Had my first problem with JLCPCB recently and been with them for years.

They sent a message saying one of the pcb's was damaged in production and they would give me a voucher off next pcb.
All great no problem, these things happen.
So got pcb's through post and posted them off to my customer.
Next thing I know customer is complaining taht one of the pcb's has a 6mm hole right through the pcb and a track.
Looks like JLPCB put teh bad pcb in the box instead of throwing it out !
A bad pcb is no good to me.
As they are by far the cheapest and best quality (usually) I will let it go this time.

How many did you get?
I mean it is pointless to ship it to you, but if you paid for 5 and you got 4 good ones and 1 bad one and a voucher, that seems completely fair.

Maybe they thought there was a chance you could use it, wanted to see the damage, etc.

They normally give the option of a voucher or waiting for the damaged/missing board. It doesn't usually get shipped out though if it's damaged, hopefully they didn't throw away one of the good ones!