Are expensive soldering stations really worth it?

[tooki]

For some reason those Ersa images won't load. Ersas are good stations but there are a few things new players need to know going in. They use a tip/heater system a with screw on collar, though they out perform the majority of the stations out there they also have less accurate regulation which is the downside of that extra performance.

On what do you base that claim? I've seen no evidence whatsoever of them having poor regulation, and note that all of the i-Con stations have three selectable "power" settings, which are really the aggressiveness setting, letting you choose between very aggressive heating with larger overshoot, conservative heating with no overshoot, or the default middle setting which has very minor overshoot.

The Ersa system is basically a very precision-engineered and manufactured "traditional" tip/heater system, such that despite being separate tip/heater, the thermal coupling is so good that it gets you 90% of the way to a cartridge system. (I mean, a Hakko tip/heater iron takes 40 seconds to heat up, the Ersa takes 9, far closer to the 5 secs of a cartridge system than not.)

Comparatively Metcal, JBC and Pace cartridge based stations also have great performance, are faster heating and easier to swap tips on. Plus Metcal and Pace are both accurate regulating and calibration free.

No doubt the cartridge systems are superior. In a way, I'm surprised Ersa hasn't released a cartridge system that's compatible with the i-Con series, either by replacing the whole handle, or by replacing the heater (which itself is socketed) with a socket adapter to accept cartridges.

With Ersa and Hakko you can buy extra collars/sleeves to make swapping tips a bit more efficient, but there is just no reason to with cartridge based stations.

The Ersa collars are a pain in the butt, insofar as they snap onto a tip very snugly, so you really have no choice but to get one sleeve per tip. At least you can reuse it if you ever need to replace a worn out tip like-for-like. On the bright side, the Ersa collars don't get hot, so you can swap hot tips without any kind of tool.

Both Ersa and Pace have relatively cheaper tips in comparison to most cartridge based stations.

Yes. Though I find it curious that Pace is able to sell many tip geometries at FAR lower cost than Ersa, despite being cartridges!! For example, while a standard chisel tip for either one is about $11, the drag soldering tips (Ersa MiniWell, Pace MiniWave) differ massively, with Pace still charging something like $11, compared to $35 for Ersa.

Though it's promoted as a benefit, in my opinion having any complex circuitry in the handpiece can be a double edged sword when it comes to reliability.

Well, has it actually proven to be a reliability liability? Your logic is absolutely correct in theory, but in practice, it could be totally fine.

For sure, I haven't heard of Ersa handles being unusually failure-prone, and to the best of my knowledge, they're the most electronically complex ones on the market (ignoring the TS100/TS80), containing an Atmel Mega88 MCU and a MEMS accelerometer. (Since the Ersa stores the tip calibration in the handle itself, I assume the MCU is responsible for both interpreting the accelerometer as well as using its internal EEPROM for the calibration constants.) They're potted and contain no electrolytics, so quite likely to be very durable even long term. this post has a teardown.


For what it's worth, if I were going to buy a new station today, I'd buy a Pace instead of an Ersa, thanks to the ADS200 being so affordable. But it's also fair to say that I'm not dissatisfied with my Ersa i-Con nano, it's performed very well. My three big gripes are 1) the non-backlit LCD, 2) the up/down buttons instead of a knob (and inability to have both presets AND arbitrary temperature*), and 3) the poor availability of Ersa tips in Switzerland. But the first two would have been eliminated if I'd gotten a more expensive i-Con model, and the third isn't a deficiency in the design. (Pace doesn't have much in the way of local distribution here, either, but since Farnell carries them, it's easy to order from abroad without nasty customs surprises. Ersa, on the other hand, blocked Amazon and others from selling to Switzerland...)


*on the i-Con nano and pico, you can use a microSD card to configure the station to use the up/down buttons to either let you set a temperature, or to switch between three presets that you predefine via the SD card. But there's no way to have presets that you can override if needed. The SD card is also how you configure the power (aggressiveness) setting, the setback and sleep timers, etc.

[SiliconWizard]

We have Metcal at work, and I don't really see what's all the fuss is about. It is no worse and no better than any other soldering station I used. And yes, maintenance for them is expensive.

Same here, but they were choosen for production work. The main reason was: fixed temperature. They had noticed that some production people tended to set higher temperatures than what was specificied in the procedures (out of habit or because they thought soldering was a bit "easier" this way), so stations in which temperature was not settable was seen as a bonus.

We ended up with a couple extra stations for prototyping as part of the deal, and for that use, I never saw the benefit compared to Weller, Ersa or JBC either.

[Shock]

On what do you base that claim?

Temp for temp the difference in performance between the Pace and Ersa is likely marginal. I like some of the Ersa features like the heating profiles and the accelerometer. But if someone was considering the two I think it's important to understand the differences, also gives me something to do when I'm bored and that is most important.

I was paraphrasing before but essentially we were talking about the same thing, less accurate regulation on it's faster profile causing overshooting, I've no doubt it eventually settles accurately.

No proof that the Ersa circuit is going to fail faster compared to a hot swap cartridge handpiece with no circuitry but my gut instinct is usually correct. Like I said it's a double edged sword, according to them it's a benefit but I think it's unnecessary and more than likely a detriment.

Speaking of subjecture, there is the possibility the Ersa powerwell tip is licensed. Not 100% sure but I had the feeling that Hakko was licensing theirs in the past, they weren't selling it on the US market. If they aren't licensing their tips it's hard to justify that price, in reality they are probably knocking them out for a few dollars each. Hakko seems to have been able to export genuine T18 tips and sell them for $5 retail.

[tooki]

But if someone was considering the two I think it's important to understand the differences

But in that case, you should make sure that you are describing them correctly. Your earlier post made it sound as though Ersa is incapable of accurate regulation, which is plainly untrue.

also gives me something to do when I'm bored and that is most important.

This I understand very well!

I was paraphrasing before but essentially we were talking about the same thing, less accurate regulation on it's faster profile causing overshooting, I've no doubt it eventually settles accurately.

But the aggressive profile is not enabled by default. (You did not qualify your initial claim by stating the use of that non-default mode.) In my experience using the default profile, the only real overshoot is on initial turn-on when using fatter tips. (And since they're still not especially large-mass tips, they recover downward quickly, long before you're ready to make a joint.) During use, it rarely overshoots by more than a few degrees. From what I know of other brands, this is very typical behavior and provides a nice balance between responsiveness and thermal process safety.

No proof that the Ersa circuit is going to fail faster compared to a hot swap cartridge handpiece with no circuitry but my gut instinct is usually correct. Like I said it's a double edged sword, according to them it's a benefit but I think it's unnecessary and more than likely a detriment.

I don't see any reason to assume it'd fail any sooner than the MCUs in the base stations themselves, which have been a staple of soldering stations for decades now, without longevity problems.

Speaking of subjecture, there is the possibility the Ersa powerwell tip is licensed. Not 100% sure but I had the feeling that Hakko was licensing theirs in the past, they weren't selling it on the US market. If they aren't licensing their tips it's hard to justify that price, in reality they are probably knocking them out for a few dollars each. Hakko seems to have been able to export genuine T18 tips and sell them for $5 retail.

Do you mean conjecture?

I dunno, I have no idea what the patenting is like. It's just curious that with Pace and JBC, they charge the same amount for a basic chisel or pencil as for the drag soldering tip ($11-13 for Pace, $35 for JBC), while Ersa spans a wide price range for those same options. Just bizarre. I doubt that there are any remaining patents on this type of tip, given how long they've been around.

As for them costing a few bucks to make: if Pace can manufacture their cartridge tips in USA and have a retail price of $11, then their wholesale price is likely $8, and the cost to manufacture likely $5. So Ersa has no excuse for charging so much for that tip style. (Nor does JBC have any excuse for charging so much for all their tips!)

[wraper]

For some reason those Ersa images won't load. Ersas are good stations but there are a few things new players need to know going in. They use a tip/heater system a with screw on collar, though they out perform the majority of the stations out there they also have less accurate regulation which is the downside of that extra performance.

More like ERSA shows actual tip temperature because temperature sensor is located so close to a tip edge and is not affected by heater while other stations happily don't report true tip temperature.

JBC and Pace cartridge based stations also have great performance, are faster heating

They are not heating faster than Ersa. JBC beats it only with tiniest cartridges with T210 handle, their 2 second heating claim is misleading and doesn't apply to T245 handle/cartridges. Pace does not beat it at all. BTW JBC overshoots a lot, despite they make you believe otherwise. Their stations are very good but their marketing is "dodgy" at best.

No proof that the Ersa circuit is going to fail faster compared to a hot swap cartridge handpiece with no circuitry but my gut instinct is usually correct. Like I said it's a double edged sword, according to them it's a benefit but I think it's unnecessary and more than likely a detriment.

My oldest i-con is 11 years old and works just fine. I estimate over 200k solder joints done with it. I've seen people writing about triac and rare heater failures but electronics failure inside handpiece is something unheard of.

[tooki]

For some reason those Ersa images won't load. Ersas are good stations but there are a few things new players need to know going in. They use a tip/heater system a with screw on collar, though they out perform the majority of the stations out there they also have less accurate regulation which is the downside of that extra performance.

More like ERSA shows actual tip temperature because temperature sensor is located so close to a tip edge and is not affected by heater while other stations happily don't report true tip temperature.

VERY good point!!!

One thing I very much like about my Ersa is that it has dual display, a little one for the set temp, and the big one for the actual temp. (And a little bar graph showing how much energy it's pumping into the tip.)

JBC and Pace cartridge based stations also have great performance, are faster heating

They are not heating faster than Ersa. JBC beats it only with tiniest cartridges with T210 handle, their 2 second heating claim is misleading and doesn't apply to T245 handle/cartridges.

No? I have a JBC with T245 at work, and it definitely is faster than my i-Con nano at home (which is slightly less powerful than the "big" i-Con stations, despite using the exact same heater, since it runs it at a lower voltage). It's definitely not 2 seconds, but it's definitely less than the Ersa.

Pace does not beat it at all.

I've never used a Pace, but it can't possibly be worse than the Ersa, given the cartridge system, can it? Have you had a chance to actually try modern Pace hands-on?

JBC and Pace cartridge based stations also have great performance, are faster heating

BTW JBC overshoots a lot, despite they make you believe otherwise. Their stations are very good but their marketing is "dodgy" at best.

This I believe. I definitely get the feeling that they overshoot. (I can't know for sure, since the unit I have at work doesn't have a temp display.)


I'd love to see Dave's take on the Ersas, since he could compare them head-on with JBC and Pace, but they refuse to provide him a review unit without unreasonable review conditions. Pity, since I suspect they'd have gotten tons of sales out of an honest review.



One maddening thing about Ersa is their power ratings. The i-Con 1 station is, depending on which Ersa document you look at, 80W, 120W, or 150W. My i-Con nano is either 68W or 80W depending on where you look. No other soldering vendor I've seen has this kind of confusion. (My best interpretation is that it's a 150W-capable heating element, with a power supply capable of 80W continuous/120W peak on the i-Con 1, or 68W continuous/80W peak on the nano. To my best knowledge, no i-Con station model ever drives the heater at 150W, despite Ersa plastering the 150W iron rating all over the place.)

No proof that the Ersa circuit is going to fail faster compared to a hot swap cartridge handpiece with no circuitry but my gut instinct is usually correct. Like I said it's a double edged sword, according to them it's a benefit but I think it's unnecessary and more than likely a detriment.

My oldest i-con is 11 years old and works just fine. I estimate over 200k solder joints done with it. I've seen people writing about triac and rare heater failures but electronics failure inside handpiece is something unheard of.

Yeah, the triac failure seems to be the most common failure in the i-Con 1. Easy fix, at least!

I haven't heard of it failing in other i-Con models, so maybe they've resolved whatever caused the triac to fail.

[wraper]

No? I have a JBC with T245 at work, and it definitely is faster than my i-Con nano at home (which is slightly less powerful than the "big" i-Con stations, despite using the exact same heater, since it runs it at a lower voltage). It's definitely not 2 seconds, but it's definitely less than the Ersa.

It's not slightly less powerful. While heater is the same, it's powered from 16.5V instead of 24V, which means it's peak power is only 47% of full-blown  i-CON.

[wraper]

150W-capable heating element, with a power supply capable of 80W continuous/120W peak on the i-Con 1

150W is peak power of heating element. Heater resistance is 3.4 Ohm so actually it's more like 170W @ 24V. AFAIK 80W continuous is for i-CON, I-CON1, 120W for I-CON2. According to my calculations 68W peak power for Nano compared with full-blown I-con (Or 80W @ 16.5V considering actual heater resistance) sounds about right.

[wraper]

I just checked and 2.4 mm chisel reaches 350^oC from room temperature in 6 seconds (high power setting). Thin conical tips likely will be be a bit faster.

[tooki]

No? I have a JBC with T245 at work, and it definitely is faster than my i-Con nano at home (which is slightly less powerful than the "big" i-Con stations, despite using the exact same heater, since it runs it at a lower voltage). It's definitely not 2 seconds, but it's definitely less than the Ersa.

It's not slightly less powerful. While heater is the same, it's powered from 16.5V instead of 24V, which means it's peak power is only 47% of full-blown  i-CON.

Yeah, in theory, but it seems that Ersa never drives the heaters at full power on any model, which is why they specify them all as 9-second heatup to 350C on the default power. The big i-Con stations are rated as 80W continuous, vs. 68W continuous on the nano, and that is IMHO a fairly small difference.

150W-capable heating element, with a power supply capable of 80W continuous/120W peak on the i-Con 1

150W is peak power of heating element. Heater resistance is 3.4 Ohm so actually it's more like 170W @ 24V. AFAIK 80W continuous is for i-CON, I-CON1, 120W for I-CON2. According to my calculations 68W peak power for Nano compared with full-blown I-con (Or 80W @ 16.5V considering actual heater resistance) sounds about right.

The 120W continuous is for both tools, and it retains the 150W peak.

Ersa says 80W peak for the nano, 68W continuous.


Regardless, this discussion merely proves my actual point perfectly: Ersa is clear as mud regarding its power ratings.

I just checked and 2.4 mm chisel reaches 350^oC from room temperature in 6 seconds (high power setting). Thin conical tips likely will be be a bit faster.

Alas, I no longer have a working Windows computer or VM at home, so I can't access the program for changing my nano's power setting to see how it compares on the high power setting.

[wraper]

The big i-Con stations are rated as 80W continuous, vs. 68W continuous on the nano, and that is IMHO a fairly small difference.

Continuous power is not worth a dime since heating always happens in peaks unless you are doing something wrong.

[tooki]

Yeah, that's true.

My hunch is that regardless of which model, the actual maximum power is being restricted by the algorithm more than the hardware, given that they heat at the same speed despite having different available power.

[wraper]

given that they heat at the same speed despite having different available power.

They certainly don't. Nano delivers power as medium setting at best. I've seen some videos on youtube and there is a big difference when using bigger tips and soldering something heavy.

[tooki]

given that they heat at the same speed despite having different available power.

They certainly don't. Nano delivers power as medium setting at best. I've seen some videos on youtube and there is a big difference when using bigger tips and soldering something heavy.

So Ersa is lying when they spec both at 9 seconds?

[tooki]

If so, then it (for the third time) proves my actual point perfectly: Ersa is clear as mud regarding its power ratings.

[tooki]

I'm also still curious as to your answers to these questions:

JBC and Pace cartridge based stations also have great performance, are faster heating

They are not heating faster than Ersa. JBC beats it only with tiniest cartridges with T210 handle, their 2 second heating claim is misleading and doesn't apply to T245 handle/cartridges.

No? I have a JBC with T245 at work, and it definitely is faster than my i-Con nano at home (which is slightly less powerful than the "big" i-Con stations, despite using the exact same heater, since it runs it at a lower voltage). It's definitely not 2 seconds, but it's definitely less than the Ersa.

Pace does not beat it at all.

I've never used a Pace, but it can't possibly be worse than the Ersa, given the cartridge system, can it? Have you had a chance to actually try modern Pace hands-on?

Note that these questions were not posed as challenges, I am genuinely curious.

[wraper]

If so, then it (for the third time) proves my actual point perfectly: Ersa is clear as mud regarding its power ratings.

My older i-tools (with grey rubber grip) have "150 24V written on them. Without "W", LOL. I have newer spare i-tool which is fully black and it does not have it, but there is 24V 150 on the box.

[OwO]

Ok so is the consensus here cartridge tips, even low end ones like the T12 clones, always perform better than separate heater and tip? I don't care about startup time, only the ability to do big joints without high temperature.

[wraper]

Ok so is the consensus here cartridge tips, even low end ones like the T12 clones, always perform better than separate heater and tip? I don't care about startup time, only the ability to do big joints without high temperature.

No they don't, and especially clones. Say even genuine HAKKO T12 won't beat ERSA and is way worse in aspects as handle and tip to grip distance. Although it's true than in general cartridge systems mean very good performance.

[Shock]

Ersa are the exception to tip/heater stations. JBC did a performance comparison in 2009, gives you an idea of handpieces they tested at the time including Hakko. On page 8 though the JBC mysteriously lost it's overshoot warming up from cold #conspiracy.

The Hakko T12 is a bit of an underachiever cartridge of the bunch being that it's 70W. There is an upside in that genuine Hakko stations (and slower stations in general) tend to overshoot less. As mentioned already JBC and Ersa have profiles that overshoot, some models can however be slowed down in config to avoid this.

T12 are not "high performance" style cartridges. JBC and Pace have cartridges with an extra mass surrounding the heater. It takes slightly longer to heat but improves soldering performance. Pace TD200 handpiece (ADS200 station) also takes standard tips as well but they are faster than the T12. Compared to most traditional tip/heater style stations though the T12 are considerably faster.

At the end of the day you want as fast heating (quicker recovery) as good temperature regulation and as little overshoot as possible. Oh and have a cool running handpiece and a station that doesn't require calibrating.

Anyway none of this matters if your soldering is shit, practice soldering.

[wraper]

Ersa are the exception to tip/heater stations. JBC did a performance comparison in 2009, gives you an idea of handpieces they tested at the time including Hakko. On page 8 though the JBC mysteriously lost it's overshoot warming up from cold #conspiracy.

Keep in mind this comparison is a bit innovative with marketing BS. They compare JBC C245-011 (3mm chisel) with ERSA CDLF16 (1.6 mm chisel). Sounds fair, LOL  .

Others don't seem so blatant but there are some inconsistencies as well.

[tooki]

Like the fact that they tested some stations at 350C and others at 400C, and that the graphs use various different scales and offsets.

[james_s]

That drives me nuts. Even an amateur should know that you need to compare apples to apples and have as few variables as possible between units in a given test.  Anything else reeks of marketing BS.

[thm_w]

Ersa are the exception to tip/heater stations. JBC did a performance comparison in 2009, gives you an idea of handpieces they tested at the time including Hakko. On page 8 though the JBC mysteriously lost it's overshoot warming up from cold #conspiracy.

The warm up time is similar though, 7s, so not a huge deal IMO.

The difference between 2mm and 3mm tip appears massive (red trace). But I suspect there is too much variance from technique here to draw any certain conclusions.

[galileo]

Those are induction heater irons, something like a temperature controlled Metcal but at a much lower frequency and no curie point tips.
Looked at those a few years back when it became available but those are way to expensive around these parts.
$50 is a steal, can't find anything in that price range on AliExpress and the selection is not that great.

Huh, TS2300C sells for over $200 USD for what looks like the same thing.

Also this came up in the search and made me LOL:
(Attachment Link)
The story for those who can't read moon runes: long time ago a Chinese company misappropriated Hakko's kanji brand name 白光 (read "Hakko" in Japanese) and started selling Hakko clones under the same name, but romanized as "Bakon" (presumably the cantonese reading?) This one here changes one character, mixes the chinese and japanese readings to become "Huakko"