Buying on Alibaba

[gnuarm]

I use a $3 AKM part on my product that is now unobtanium (factory fire) and the only source seems to be Alibaba.  I bought 10 pieces @$30 from a vendor and verified they pass testing.  Now prices have dropped a bit from many sources so I bought 500 @ $10.  When they arrive a few will also be tested. 

I used the Alibaba transaction feature with a credit card rather than wire money for protection against fraudulent parts, which has a 2.x% fee.  I had placed one order and the guy didn't ship.  He refunded the cost of goods and shipping, but so far Alibaba has kept their fee.  The fee this time is more because it's a bigger order.  I have an RFQ from my customer for ~11,000 units, so I'm going to have to repeat this process. 

The problems with using the credit card for this is a PITA.  The fees are going to add up, but worse, I can only buy a handful at a time because of the dollar limit on the card(s).  I guess I could make a payment on the card so it has a positive balance before I place the order, but the card company might not like that. 

I guess if this same guy can continue to get parts at a good price maybe I can trust him and pay by wire.  It's still through Alibaba with their protection and has a much smaller transaction fee. 

Anyone have experience buying large dollar amounts through Alibaba?  I can see why Jack Ma is a billionaire. 

[NorthGuy]

They have Trade Assurance orders, which guarantees the money back if Alibaba so decides. If you want to use wire, Alibaba gives you bank details of a bank in Singapore where to wire. Each supplier have their own account in that bank. There's no fee for that other than what you pay to your bank. In theory, they will wire your money back if the contract fails. I have never tried to request the money back.

[gnuarm]

I have not explored all the options, but it looked to me like they charge $40 for the transfer.  For now I'll pay the credit card fees.  I'm still very leery of this process.  There are a bazillion vendors out there all clawing for a piece of the market.  Trust is based on repeat business and I don't see much indication they rely on that.  Often when I ask for a specific device they have a listing for, they come back offering all manner of services with no mention of my part. 

Maybe this is just a cultural thing.  I'm not excited about finding out.

[NorthGuy]

... it looked to me like they charge $40 for the transfer.

This is their estimate how much your bank would charge for international wire transfer, not Alibaba's fee.

[jrs45]

You should demand Alibaba fees back, if the supplier never shipped. No question.

If they don't refund it, do a credit card chargeback.

You should never use wire transfers. Trade assurance is totally unreliable, and you need the recourse of a credit card chargeback.

[gnuarm]

Yes, that's what I figured.  I bought some flash drives from different vendors on Aliexpress and found them all to be fake.  The first dispute Ali refunded.  The second dispute Ali made harder and only gave back a portion (as if the drive was partly usable...).  The third dispute they wanted me to video running the test program (the same one the vendor claims showed the drive was good)!  It takes hours to complete.  I had to dispute it on the credit card. 

I sometimes have the same problem on eBay.  Neither is interested in doing anything to run off these scammers.  There's a company in Maryland selling undergauge wire.  They are selling enough that they have their own name on the insulation!  I measured it very carefully and it is about 3 AWG sizes smaller than what they claim.  I bought four different sizes so I know they are doing this intentionally.  eBay has no interest in dealing with them.  If I ever get the time I may document it and take it to the MD state attorney. 

Anyway...  I may need to buy $100,000 of these parts over the next half a year.  The CC fees will add up.  The parts can not be bought anywhere else, so CC fees it is.  At least there is enough profit that it won't matter so much.

[SMTech]

Well, rather you than me...
I think if you have the capital available (or can get it from the customer) it might be less risky to grab the entire qty required now, in one go, before someone swoops in with a convincing fake/low grade out of spec reject they've somehow got their paws on and inserts it into the market.

[NorthGuy]

I bought some flash drives from different vendors on Aliexpress and found them all to be fake.

If a product is offered by a drop-shipping company, you'll get hundreds (possibly thousands) of drop-shippers listing it. Of course, no matter which seller you chose, you'll get the same product shipped from the same place, with only difference being the address of the origin. And if the price is too low to be true, it most certainly will be crap. It'll take time and effort to find real sellers who maintain their own inventory and sell quality products. When you do, the price may not be very different from what you would pay in a store.

I tried buying on AliExpress since long ago, and I often got crap. They've changed for better now - better listings, better reviews, or perhaps I've got more experience using them. But now I'm happy with the things I buy most of the time.

I don't think Alibaba is the same as AliExpress.

[gnuarm]

I bought some flash drives from different vendors on Aliexpress and found them all to be fake.

I don't think Alibaba is the same as AliExpress.

No, it's not.  But it is the same company and I expect similar levels and mechanisms of support and finances. 

[thm_w]

What is the part number, no NA companies have surplus stock? (PM if you don't want to post it publicly).
You can get credit cards with $50k+ limits on them if its for business, for these types of purposes.

I've used wire transfer on alibaba but only with trusted companies.

[gnuarm]

It's an AKM part, AK4556VT, a popular chip.  The factory burned down back in Nov or so.  My customer is very intermittent, mostly selling to the government.  But when they order they can order big.  I told them about this as soon as I found out, but they have taken this long to think it through and tell me they want to order 10k units.  They guy selling me 500 says he can get another 1,000 a bit cheaper even, but I need to pay off the card first, maybe even put some balance on it.  I'd also like to have the PO before I start spending big bucks.  That may take a week or few.

There is no inventory available other than the far east brokers unless maybe you pay $100/pc.  Originally the quotes were all for $60 and up from Alibaba, but in the last month they've come down some. 

They aren't even talking about when they may be back in production... just not for at least a year.  Not a good time to be shopping around for contract fab time with the global shortage in semis in general.  It may take them getting a new fab up and running.

[thm_w]

UT source claims to have 33,000 for $2.50. Although they are a chinese company they seem to have US branches.
https://octopart.com/ak4556vt-akm+semiconductor-56776519?r=sp

Lots on taobao for $2-3 each, but that would be my last resort, and you'd want to get them verified within China if possible.

[gnuarm]

$2.50 for used parts.  Hmmm... let me think... I'll pass.  But thanks for checking.  Actually, my customer requires I use new parts.  In fact, I have a waiver for the age of a part that is EOL with adequate stocks available through distribution. 

I went did the big search last year when I first found out about the fire.  My first contact was from a broker who had somehow found my parts list and was asking if I had excess inventory.  I knew something was up.

[Rat_Patrol]

DigiKey lists that part as obsolete, doesn't sound like they will pick up production again (lost all tooling I'm sure).

Doesn't seem to be too special of a part. There isn't a substitute part that will work, perhaps in another package (PCB revision)?

[ANTALIFE]

Have a look if anyone on https://www.netcomponents.com/ has it

[gnuarm]

Have a look if anyone on https://www.netcomponents.com/ has it

Maybe they do, maybe they don't.  I'm not yet registered, so I can't see what sort of suppliers are being listed or any info on price.  One source shows 50,000.  If that is true, I'm pretty sure they aren't going for anything like cheap or likely even affordable.  I can find stock a number of places at $100 a part.  But we'll see.  I registered, but it takes a day they said.

It's about time I can check in with the guy who is supposed to be shipping me 500 units.  Yesterday he sent me a couple of photos, but no tracking number yet.  No reason why he wouldn't have a tracking number by now.

[gnuarm]

DigiKey lists that part as obsolete, doesn't sound like they will pick up production again (lost all tooling I'm sure).

Doesn't seem to be too special of a part. There isn't a substitute part that will work, perhaps in another package (PCB revision)?

Please find me a part that is remotely compatible.  I'm not excited about spinning a new board and I'm even less excited about spinning a new FPGA code.  My customer is not excited about redoing EMC testing and all the other stuff they do for new products.  If they send me the PO, I expect I'll pay $100 a chip if I have to.  It's not like I can't pass the costs on to them.

[gnuarm]

Have a look if anyone on https://www.netcomponents.com/ has it

I heard back from my application and they are asking for the same info again, but with a full set of credit references, five!  I don't think I can provide five.  I asked Digikey for that once and they said they don't do that.  I don't recall if Mouser said no or if they just ignored my request.  I've got three CMs I've dealt with in the last few years.  That's the trouble with using CMs.  You don't buy much on your own credit.

They also want to see my original registration.  I don't think I can find my EIN form from 20 years ago, but I have the articles of incorporation.  Maybe they'll take that.  It's not like I'm asking for credit with them.

[mon2]

Checking with some of our sources. Hope to have more information tomorrow.

I take it that you have contacted AKM already? They may / should have inventory views of their distribution channels around the world.

The datasheet notes that AK4552 is a drop in replacement but with lower specs - is this possible to use?

This is a high end audio widget?

Personally not an audio developer but frequent the XMOS website (which is #1 for audio design) - you can check what others are using for the codecs on the user forum.

User forum:

www.xcore.com

Netcomponents is asking for your DNA to register as a BUYER?? Does not sound right.

[gnuarm]

Official supply of the affected AKM components dried up almost immediately, or by the time I found out anyway.  At one point I was sent a form email stating they had some number of AK4552 devices (downward compatible devices that I could in theory utilize), but would need to see how well the work after being cleaned up from smoke damage, etc. 

I looked into the AK4552.  I designed the board to work with that part as one of the several backup plans for component shortages and price variances I used.  But unlike the other options, I never built any with this option.  However, I have found this device to be less available than the AK4556.  I tried ordering small quantities of the AK4552 to test and two vendors promised product but never shipped (Aliexpress). 

Not what I would call "high end", no.  It is an interface for audio for IP networking.  It operates in several modes in coordination with a serial data input, but mostly is used for voice calls including uLaw/A-law but also 48 kSPS, 16 bit audio.  Ever hear of IRIG-B120?

It may come to spinning the board, but this device is very small, 20-TSSOP and has discrete lines for configuration rather than an I2C or SPI interface, hard to find something similar.  Many alternatives require extensive programming of registers.  The FPGA on this board is maxed out, but it would also be replaced in a spin since it is EOL since some 5 years ago.  Arrow has inventory still of the FPGA, so no problem making the 11,000 units they need to get them through the next couple of years.  The alternative choices for FPGA are slim since the board is so small.  A TQFP100 barely fits.  BGAs tend to suck with layout and this is already 10 ounces of circuit on a 5 ounce board. 

If I could find an op amp with the required drive and differential outputs that would save some space and make a spin a lot less hassle.  150 mA output into 50 ohm.  Yeah, kinda odd, I know.  I designed a circuit that provides 50 ohms output impedance using a 12 ohm resistor, a touch of positive feedback does the trick.  I think there might be a name for that, but I don't recall.  It gets an 8 volt swing from a 12 volt supply into 50 ohm with a 50 ohm output impedance.  But it's 3 op amps to get a differential output. 

[tautech]

I got into what I do now starting with single eBay purchases until I built a relationship with the seller that I also would message through eBay however when the #'s started climbing we dealt privately and I used PayPal until I found similar products on Aliexpress where I went through the same process again until #'s jumped further then contacted the manufacturers directly through Alibaba where purchase costs and shipping logistics dropped to an entirely different level ! 
Then payments became much larger and at the advice of a old school mate that had spent decades in freight forwarding said to totally bypass the banks for overseas funds transfer and for 8 years now been using this specialist forex company.
https://www.ofx.com/en-us/

Couldn't be happier with the process now but it's all about building the relationship and trust.

Finding a good freight forwarder is also invaluable as they likely have contacts worldwide and shipping channels they know and trust where in other than the current global shipping mess can forecast ETA's weeks out to within a day or two.

If I ever need to spend over a CC limit to Aliexpress I just load the card using online banking then hit the Buy Now. Done it a few times, no problem.

[mon2]

Sent you a PM on a lead for these parts. Hope it works out for you.

[gnuarm]

Sent you a PM on a lead for these parts. Hope it works out for you.

Yes, thank you.  $39 is a bit steep, the Alibaba sources are a much lower price even if more difficult to work with.  But when buying thousands, a $30 price difference makes up for a lot of inconvenience. 

We will see how this progresses.  The 500 I've placed an order for on Alibaba are having trouble showing up on the DHL tracking site.  They've been in shipment all week, but it seems someone other than DHL is used to get the goods to Hong Kong where it will be in DHL hands.  Currently the Alibaba tracking doesn't say where the goods are, only that the goods have cleared Chinese customs.  I suppose that is in Hong Kong.  So still not showing as in DHL hands. 

[gnuarm]

If I ever need to spend over a CC limit to Aliexpress I just load the card using online banking then hit the Buy Now. Done it a few times, no problem.

Yeah, the trouble is when I get a quote I need to place the order then.  I tend to pay the CC using my online banking which can take a couple/three days to change the available balance.  The other day I did the transfer from the CC web site and it changed IMMEDIATELY!  Both transactions are ACH, but I guess the CC company takes there own word for it the transfer is good.   

Try getting some info from the banks about how this works.  They don't know diddly or won't tell.  I had an ACH transfer stretch out without showing at the other end.  The bank only told me the transaction was completed from their end and had no visibility into it otherwise. 

[tautech]

Ah, OK.

All our CC's are hosted by our bank so any transfer we make to them shows up instantly.

Yes for what you do you just have to suck up any forex transfer costs in order to get a payment to your supplier ASAP.
OFX takes a few hours or even a day or 2 before the funds drop into the suppliers bank as they play the forex market as part of the transfer and secondly OFX use a different bank to us.

OFX sends us emails when they see our funds then another when they drop into the suppliers A/c where you can also have your supplier emailed they got your payment but for some that's not good enough and they need to check their actual balance to ensure it's there.