Author Topic: Can't remove toner....  (Read 8399 times)

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Offline Christopher

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Can't remove toner....
« on: August 04, 2012, 01:44:06 pm »
Toner transfer is evil, so much preparation of the board is needed for good results... Moving to photoresist which is much better. But anyway.

Here I have a few boards which have been etched, and I can't get the toner off... (New cartridge)

I've tried acetone (Used a whole tub of Nail Polish Remover (~60% acetone)), methylated spirits, white spirit and a whole load of different oven cleaners/dishwashing soap etc (doesn't harm to try...)

Using the hard side of a sponge due to using up all of my wire wool... Any ideas on how I can get this toner resist off simply? Seems to be unusually stuck right on..
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2012, 02:00:13 pm »
Xylene may work as a solvent.

Failing that I guess you'll have to abrade it off. A dremel with a fine abrasive wheel, or maybe just some fine sandpaper?
 

Online IanB

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2012, 04:19:30 pm »
Toner is melted plastic. You will need to try something a bit more aggressive than simple solvents. Try paintbrush cleaner or paint stripper (PolyClens or PolyStrippa in the UK). The PolyClens is milder and should be tried first. Beware though, don't use it on a populated board as it will attack many plastics and will totally dissolve polystyrene.
"Listen to your favorite playlists and podcasts on your thermostat" -- ecobee

I'm a chemical engineer -- I know all about the flow of fluids.
 

Offline dbinokc

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2012, 05:14:29 pm »
I use 100% acetone from a quart can and I have no problems removing toner from my boards. It just wipes right off.
I wonder if the other 40% of the 60% nail polish remover is interfering somehow.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2012, 05:32:39 pm »
The problem is that toner compositions vary a lot between manufacturers. It's not just 'melted plastic' - most toners contain variable proportions of wax and resin, and some recent toners are designed to melt at lower temperatures to save energy. What works for one toner brand may not work with others.

Having said that, pure acetone works well with the toner from my Samsung printer.
 

Offline Christopher

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2012, 07:18:03 pm »
Used sandpaper and it came right off. Needless to say the board was all scratched up!

Doesn't matter because the board ended up being mirrored anyway... Only realized after drilling holes and soldering in a £6 micro..

Time to get some presensitized boards and developer from Maplin tomorrow and experiment!

Can I use normal lights to expose? Someone has said about CFL but I'm not sure if I have any of these bulbs (they look like regular energy saving, but I doubt it...)

Do I have to use transparency? I've heard someone say you can use tracing paper...

 

Offline rolycat

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2012, 08:20:03 pm »

Do I have to use transparency? I've heard someone say you can use tracing paper...

It could have been our very own mikeselectricstuff, who has written a very informative article on making PCBs, here:

http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

This recommends tracing paper, and I have had good results with it for photo-resist pcbs, although I'm using toner transfer now.

 

Offline Christopher

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2012, 08:53:22 pm »
I find the preperation of the board so much hassle... If i don't spend ages scrubbing the board with steel wool, when taking the paper off some of the tracks come off...

Most of the tracks end up bridged too, (even though this happens with UV too)
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2012, 09:15:20 pm »
A lot depends on the toner and the paper you use. There are a lot of variables, but once you get a setup that works you can get really good results.

I use a basic 600dpi Samsung laser on cheap photo inkjet paper,  iron it until it starts to go brown, and the tracks look perfect once I soak off the paper.

Some people print onto baking parchment, which apparently just peels off cleanly with no need to soak or scrub.

 

Offline dbinokc

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2012, 09:44:56 pm »
I find the preperation of the board so much hassle... If i don't spend ages scrubbing the board with steel wool, when taking the paper off some of the tracks come off...

Most of the tracks end up bridged too, (even though this happens with UV too)
I have had excellent results cleaning copper clad with tarnex.  My procedure is to wipe the board with alcohol, to remove any oils and then wipe down with Tarnex to get the oxidation off.

Bridging with toner transfer happens when the toner is overheated and it flows. You need to keep track of the time and heat. For this, I have found that T-shirt press works very well for applying even heat and pressure. Much better than an iron or a laminator.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2012, 01:49:30 am »
Expert texpert choking smoker. I am the eggman.
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2012, 02:55:11 am »
Anything with petroleum distillates should do it.

Read the label.

In the bathroom try Absorbene Jr.
In the shop paint stripper, not the eco friendly kind.

Use a bristle brush to apply, it melts most plastics. Rubber gloves are good as well.

...mike 
 

Offline M. András

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2012, 05:46:13 pm »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2012, 06:15:09 pm »
Industrial vacuum with HEPA filter, no problem............. You may need a new filter afterwards though.
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2012, 09:08:37 pm »
I generally use ordinary paint thinner/remover to remove the toner commonly known in Poland as 'nitro'. It's a mixture of acethone, toluene and sometimes turpentine and/or methylated spirits. Removes the toner without any problem.

btw.
At some point when i ran out of nitro i went on a hunt for nail polish remover into my girlfriend's drawer. She had only 'acethone free remover with scent of flower and lemon' ( :o  ???). I dunno what was in there instead of acethone, but it was hell lot of stronger than acethone.
I love the smell of FR4 in the morning!
 

Offline asbokid

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2012, 11:21:04 pm »
ordinary paint thinner/remover to remove the toner commonly known in Poland as 'nitro'. It's a mixture of acetone, toluene and sometimes turpentine and/or methylated spirits.

And let me guess, in Russia they drink it neat?



cheers, a
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2012, 01:03:37 am »
When i use press n peel blue i remove the toner with turps, dissolves it right off.
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: Can't remove toner....
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2012, 06:52:34 am »
Two problems i have with pure turpentine are that it has this extremly strong smell of pine and other people living with you may (let's face the truth... 'WILL') find it annoying. Second thing is that turpentine is cancerogenous according to some medical studies
I love the smell of FR4 in the morning!
 


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