Boarditto pick/place machine

[jmelson]

The Boarditto doesn't support importing of component positions from a file, presumably the location of each component must be manually set via the interface shown at the end of their promotional video.
https://twitter.com/boarditto/status/1132309684289847296

Oh dear...  definite clue failure.

Oh my!  So true.  I never, EVER, did this, even with my first board in 2007.  I did hand-edit the very first board file, just copying fields from the CAM P&P file into the format the machine used.
Once I got that to work, I then wrote a program to convert the file from the CAM system to the P&P machine's own format.

So, if that is true, then the machine is a total joke!  Can you save the manually-entered placement data for use at a later time?  If not, this thing is a total TOY, sorry to be brutal about it, but that's what it is.  I make small runs of the same boards, often several years later.  I just load the saved feeder and placement files from a PC and make another batch.

And, If you CAN save and reload the placement files, then it would be possible to reverse engineer the file format and load your own data after converting from the CAM format.

Jon

[SMTech]

Whats even more laughable is their response to Mike, its a device that operates to XY co-ordinates, the time taken to add this into the software is the work of minutes if they leave out niceties like co-ordinate flipping, rotation and unit conversion and any kind of format flexibility. Their dismissive response (and the hilarious 16 feeder count) suggest they literally have no clue about the problem they set out to solve with this machine and that should be very very concerning. What else have they not bothered to do or not even thought of?

[asmi]

I don't think they meant this machine as an end-to-end automatic PnP machine for complete assembly, but rather as a helper to place the bulk of small parts. With that 16 feeders would be OK, but they would also NEED to be able to handle 0201. Also I think they need to increase the board size to 240x140 mm, which is a maximum board size that 4030 size framed stencils can handle (and most affordable manual stencil printers use this size frames). Infact I would likely buy this machine if it would support 0201 (and I'm fine with reels-only option), and the board size I mentioned above. I don't mind manually placing some bigger parts, and 90+% of components on my board would fit on 16 feeders (per side).

[SMTech]

Well no they clearly don't but they reduce its usefulness even for that by making it so very very small* and leaving out core functionality even prototypers want repeat runs now and then. If you have to manually teach each location you'd be quicker building it by hand (and no more or less likely to make a mistake). Its cute, not immediately Chinese and they made a video thats about all it has going for it outside of that it has almost no advantages over your little Charmhighs/Neodens/whatever and most of those can't do 0201 either.
As a complete aside as a small batch manufacturer I have yet to be asked to place 0201, almost all the people that come our way operate in 0805 with the occasional daring foray into 0603 or 0402 caps they want to get really close to an FPGA or something. 0402 isn't much fun for manual placement (but doable) 0201 would no fun at all (I have seen people say they do on here) and i agree if you were making a quality lab prototyper it should be that accurate but then you could easily ask for 10x the money at which point you are at the Neoden S1 which if it lives up to its claims, does that at way more than 20 parts a minute!

* why oh why is a portable 5Kg placer a desirable thing?

[asmi]

Well no they clearly don't but they reduce its usefulness even for that by making it so very very small* and leaving out core functionality even prototypers want repeat runs now and then. If you have to manually teach each location you'd be quicker building it by hand (and no more or less likely to make a mistake). Its cute, not immediately Chinese and they made a video thats about all it has going for it outside of that it has almost no advantages over your little Charmhighs/Neodens/whatever and most of those can't do 0201 either.
As a complete aside as a small batch manufacturer I have yet to be asked to place 0201, almost all the people that come our way operate in 0805 with the occasional daring foray into 0603 or 0402 caps they want to get really close to an FPGA or something. 0402 isn't much fun for manual placement (but doable) 0201 would no fun at all (I have seen people say they do on here) and i agree if you were making a quality lab prototyper it should be that accurate but then you could easily ask for 10x the money at which point you are at the Neoden S1 which if it lives up to its claims, does that at way more than 20 parts a minute!

I use 0402 parts almost exclusively as they are very easy to place manually (at least for me), they are very cheap ($4-6 for a 10k reel of resistors on LCSC for most values, $10-30 for 10k reel of caps) and they don't take a lot of PCB space. But I have to use 0201 caps under FPGA as 0402 don't fit between vias grid, and this is a serious PITA which I'd rather avoid. For example if you look at my recent FPGA board (link in my signature), I can assemble pretty much all of it with 16 feeders per side. Right now I assemble them manually, and placing 18 0201 caps on the bottom side of a board takes more time than all other components on that side combined. Which is why 0201 is so critical for me. I would probably buy a machine even if all it could handle would be 0201s and 0402s and reels only feeders.
As for placement data, I'm sure they will implement some kind of PnP file support as nobody in their right mind is going to be doing this setup on machine every time they need to change a board they are assembling,

* why oh why is a portable 5Kg placer a desirable thing?

If it's not going for speed, there is no reason to make it heavy, infact making it lighter would save a ton of money on shipping, which will likely be welcomed by their customers. Again, I'd be super-happy even if it would only place like one 0201 per 30 seconds, as long as it does so precisely so I won't have to manually "nudge" them into place (everyone who ever had to work with 0201 would probably agree with me).

[mikeselectricstuff]

* why oh why is a portable 5Kg placer a desirable thing?

If it's not going for speed, there is no reason to make it heavy, infact making it lighter would save a ton of money on shipping

The answer to that is to make it as an empty box that the end user can fill with sand to add weight and damping

[GregC]

I just got a new promotional email stating "The Boarditto is here!".  Also noting that their $550 USD “pre-order” discount ends this month (March 2020). Afterwards, the retail price will be $2,500 USD.

I do see this as a potentially useful small PnP machine for "assisting" with small board prototyping, and small maker production runs (ie. a handful of small panalised boards).

But even at $1950 USD, plus another $500 - $1000+ for a few feeders, plus more $$ for shipping and import duty / taxes, this unfortunately is a long stretch justify for the apparent target maker / hobbiest customer.  Adding another $550 USD to the base price, will just further ensure that this remains out of the reach of any small maker, excepting those with enough spare cash to throw at unjustifiable purchases!

But the biggest problem at this point is the absolute lack of information, real-world demonstrations, or end-user customer reviews.   Something you'd want before making a $3000+ USD "$550 saving" decision, before the end of March 2020 (ie. in 2 weeks!).

ps. Yes I have googled, and I've reviewed the entire content of their website (which only took about 10 minutes of reading, to review ALL of the minimal FAQ / Documentation pages).  No mention of any updates to allow placement importing, so still appears to be a entirely manual time-consuming job setup process (so probably not really that useful for prototyping).

I guess this product is a: "Wait and see if some initial customers provide reviews of their experiences / see how it evolves."  Then, wait until volume production hopefully permits pricing to fall into the: "Can't really justify it, but I can just stretch to treat myself to one of these." category.