Desktop Pick-and-place: overview

[thommo]

Charmhigh
I have had lengthy conversations with them.
Yes - they confirm they are 'considering' a much larger feeder stack - 96, but don't expect to see anything this year from them.
I really don't like the Charmhigh interface - 7" touchscreen. I'd much prefer the independence of a keyboard and full display. They say they will provide connections for keyboard, monitor and mouse, but the GUI would remain the same (designed for touch).

My ref to 'same' with these two manufacturers was premature - sorry. I've modified the post.

If these guys thought there was sufficient interest, perhaps they'd start to be more cooperative. If not, that's not a good sign.

There's certainly plenty of interest in the community and things are moving fast. Suppliers and manufacturers need to catch up and become more responsive.

In that regard MICHAEL from SmallSMT is probably one of the better ones, he just needs to stick to his timeframes a lot better (and so do I  ).

[Koen]

If I, a company in Belgium, order your PNP from Romania, you won't charge VAT and I won't pay it. I'll mention it in my VAT report but it will have no impact. VAT total : 0.

If I, a company in Belgium, order another PNP from China, the chinese company won't charge VAT but I will have to pay VAT to Belgium for it. I'll mention it in my VAT report and I will be reimbursed of it. VAT total : 0.

[mrpackethead]

If I, a company in Belgium, order your PNP from Romania, you won't charge VAT and I won't pay it. I'll mention it in my VAT report but it will have no impact. VAT total : 0.

If I, a company in Belgium, order another PNP from China, the chinese company won't charge VAT but I will have to pay VAT to Belgium for it. I'll mention it in my VAT report and I will be reimbursed of it. VAT total : 0.

Your really ruining this tread, this talk of VAT has massively reduced the the signal to noise ratio.. IF you want to talk TAX do it over there ---->

[ServoKit]

Thanks for posting the pics, Rob. The SW looks clearly different to the 802 although there are some similarities. Much better picture quality from the cameras compared to the 802. Can't comment on the responsiveness of the manufacturer because I didn't have to contact them (yet, knock on wood).

Regards, Axel

[Koen]

Hello, is there a solid ~4000USD contender for 0603 and larger placement (no fine pitch) ? Something robust in hardware, software and available within a month ? Seeing the issues in the main pnp threads with both vision, reels and software, I'm thinking of ordering a "simple" but trusted pnp to place easy components and I'll add the four 0.4mm pitch components by hand afterwards. I need 24 reel slots. Thank you !

[l0wside]

You could try the VisionBot, but one month might be not enough.

The TVM802 is in your price range and seems to be able to place 0402 and .5mm pitch reliably. I would give it a try.

Max

[ttsthermaltech]

A couple more pics. It looks as though the threshold setting for vision is only adjustable for each nozzle. I am discussing with them to modify so each feeder can have threshold, and inspection area size / mask. Hopefully they take the advice. It would make things so much better. But otherwise I am really impressed with this machine...

[mikeselectricstuff]

A couple more pics. It looks as though the threshold setting for vision is only adjustable for each nozzle. I am discussing with them to modify so each feeder can have threshold, and inspection area size / mask. Hopefully they take the advice. It would make things so much better. But otherwise I am really impressed with this machine...

Surely that should be per component, not per feeder - vision tweaks need to be part of the component definition.

[ar__systems]

Not everything is done like it should be in chineese s/w. TVM802 does not have per-component adjustment of visual parameters.

[ttsthermaltech]

You are correct, vision settings per component.

A couple more pics. It looks as though the threshold setting for vision is only adjustable for each nozzle. I am discussing with them to modify so each feeder can have threshold, and inspection area size / mask. Hopefully they take the advice. It would make things so much better. But otherwise I am really impressed with this machine...

Surely that should be per component, not per feeder - vision tweaks need to be part of the component definition.

[ar__systems]

YES or NO, per component, or threshold per component?

[harry4516]

.....
I just would love it if ONE person could vouch for the machine / and or Qihe as a company....

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Rob.

I purchased the TVM802B two weeks ago, as soon as I entered my data into Aliexpress, my phone was ringing and a guy from Qihe called me.
I talked to him also about the 920, but he recommended to buy the 802 because the 920 is very new and not as stable as it should be.
So I ordered the 802B. It took 7 days from order until delivery, customs tax was abt. 2%, and the usual VAT.
The machine was shipped in a wooden box with lots of foam and came in very good shape.

Now,a week after delivery it is working nicely and does what I need.
But it's not plug&play. It needs some days and nights of headache to setup everything because the manual is very short,I got most
information with try and error. But now this is done and I am very happy with this machine.

[ttsthermaltech]

Thanks Harry for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Tweaking and setup are expected. Ideally, and company would have local support, but since this is from China, one has to expect to be their own tech support. But nice to hear that you are happy with overall quality.

How is software behaving? Any glitches? Gotchas? or so far smooth running?

Also, have you tried vision yet? I would love to get some idea of real world results...

Rob.

.....
I just would love it if ONE person could vouch for the machine / and or Qihe as a company....

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Rob.

I purchased the TVM802B two weeks ago, as soon as I entered my data into Aliexpress, my phone was ringing and a guy from Qihe called me.
I talked to him also about the 920, but he recommended to buy the 802 because the 920 is very new and not as stable as it should be.
So I ordered the 802B. It took 7 days from order until delivery, customs tax was abt. 2%, and the usual VAT.
The machine was shipped in a wooden box with lots of foam and came in very good shape.

Now,a week after delivery it is working nicely and does what I need.
But it's not plug&play. It needs some days and nights of headache to setup everything because the manual is very short,I got most
information with try and error. But now this is done and I am very happy with this machine.

[thommo]

Has anyone out there been in touch with the people from QiHe?
What was the experience like?

And, more to the point, has anyone actually received one of their TVM920 machines yet, or placed an order for one?

I'd be really interested to know what the situation is with this new machine. Looks like it has a lot of potential.

[sam512bb]

Has anyone out there been in touch with the people from QiHe?
What was the experience like?

And, more to the point, has anyone actually received one of their TVM920 machines yet, or placed an order for one?

I'd be really interested to know what the situation is with this new machine. Looks like it has a lot of potential.

Good Day Thommo,

Check out a previous post:

I purchased the TVM802B two weeks ago, as soon as I entered my data into Aliexpress, my phone was ringing and a guy from Qihe called me.
I talked to him also about the 920, but he recommended to buy the 802 because the 920 is very new and not as stable as it should be.
So I ordered the 802B. It took 7 days from order until delivery, customs tax was abt. 2%, and the usual VAT.
The machine was shipped in a wooden box with lots of foam and came in very good shape.

Now,a week after delivery it is working nicely and does what I need.
But it's not plug&play. It needs some days and nights of headache to setup everything because the manual is very short,I got most
information with try and error. But now this is done and I am very happy with this machine.

Cheers,

Sam

[thommo]

Hi Sam,

Apologies - I should have said 'other than the previous post'.

The reason is that I, and someone else I know, have been in touch with them about the TVM920 [at around the same time] and were told 'sure - all available and ready to order'. So I just wanted to see if there were others that had shared either one of these alternate experiences.

[sam512bb]

Hi Sam,

Apologies - I should have said 'other than the previous post'.

The reason is that I, and someone else I know, have been in touch with them about the TVM920 [at around the same time] and were told 'sure - all available and ready to order'. So I just wanted to see if there were others that had shared either one of these alternate experiences.

Good day Thommo,

No apologies are necessary!  I kind of thought that you would have seen the previous post, but decided... just in case you missed it.

Cheers,

Sam

[harry4516]

...
How is software behaving? Any glitches? Gotchas? or so far smooth running?
Also, have you tried vision yet? I would love to get some idea of real world results...
Rob.

The software looks stable, no crash so far.
Vision is working very well, it's the most important feature of this machine and is mandatory to place small QFNs.

...
The reason is that I, and someone else I know, have been in touch with them about the TVM920 [at around the same time] and were told 'sure - all available and ready to order'. So I just wanted to see if there were others that had shared either one of these alternate experiences.

my "feeling" during this phone call was, that the person wanted to make a deal, immediately. Maybe this was the reason why the 802 was presented as the best one, because I was asking for this machine.

[thommo]

@harry & @sam
thnx for the response and feedback guys - appreciated

[48X24X48X]

Charmhigh will release a CHMT48VA with north feeder next month. So, that would mean machine could end up with total of 46 feeders.

Saw one of their customer attaching a vibrating feeder (self made) to the CHMT48VA.
But, Charmhigh said they can help to mount them. So, that also means the vibration feeder supported on the software side (to pick from the front edge of the machine).

TVM920

CHMT530P

I personally don't think that either company is building for the other. They look to be mechanical duplicates of one another with vastly different controls.

With the rest of the Yamaha feeder based newer machines, I have seen many DIY machines and even the pneumatic feeder mount selling in various feeder count in China (10, 20, 30, 40, etc).
The mounting head also can be bought and is sort of standard. Hence, if you look at the tiny resolution Charmhigh-Tech CE certification image, you could see future models part number with more feeders like 40, 64, etc.
I do believe all these machines are copies/derivatives or at least originated from these DIY work with better polished software (either Linux or Windows depending what the vendor chose).
Chine is open hardware by default. And I think these machine is progressing way much faster compare to what Openpnp is doing at the moment (I could be wrong because I didn't follow that deeply).
Things are going to be better with all these options available for small makers like us!

[harry4516]

is this vibration feeder available separately ?
Could be a nice add-on for the TVM802

[48X24X48X]

is this vibration feeder available separately ?
Could be a nice add-on for the TVM802

I saw them being sold by a CHMT48VA customer which also became a reseller here.
It does show up as a separate item that cost RMB980. But, at the moment only the Charmhigh-Tech software supports them I guess.

[48X24X48X]

I came across another new machine on Taobao.

It looks like it is a spindle machine with linear guide and servo drives. Also uses the Yamaha CL feeders. Runs on Windows with an industrial SBC inside the machine.
Also supports vibration feeder and it has 4 head with Juki nozzle. Vision of course is included.

The only downside I can see is the maximum 30 feeders (if you use other than 8mm tape, it will be less) and the company is not known to anyone outside of China (yet).
They do seem to make many other manufacturing machines though from their Chinese website.

It's funny how they do comparison with machines like those from Yushengtech and Neodentech.

More and more machines are popping up!!!

EDIT: Anyone wanted to read more on the machine, check out the Taobao page. It looks like they sold quite a number of these compared to other machine now. No, I'm not affiliated with the company.

[Kjelt]

I came across another new machine on Taobao.

Do you know the price, it lists price
¥ 55.00 - 38000.00 which is a bit weird.

[48X24X48X]

Do you know the price, it lists price
¥ 55.00 - 38000.00 which is a bit weird.

They allow you to buy feeders, accessories, and the machine itself separately.

• CNY55 is the Juki nozzle
• CNY650 is the vibration module
• CNY1200 is for the table
• CNY340 for 8mm Yamaha CL feeder, CNY480 for 12mm/16mm feeder, CNY1500 for 24mm feeder. Prices are per unit
• CNY38000 is the machine itself without any feeder

Usually on Taobao buyer can futher put notes on the order. For example you want to buy the CNY55 prized nozzle, you can put a note on the size, 502 for example.

I used Google to translate.