Desktop Pick-and-place: overview

[l0wside]

Hi all,

after reading the various PNP threads here, I felt it was time to create an overview of the machines for easier comparison of their features. So I did it 
The overview is at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s9YmD-L69UXG5paMiz0pwO06J9nptdcopGrSa_s9t_E/pubhtml

Update 2016-03-30: removed Varioplacer, added data from SmallSMT, added Charmhigh, split the "other machines" part into existing ones and Vaporware.
Update 2016-03-31: added Boreytech. Skipped OpenPNP due to lack of data.
Update 2016-04-01: moved to Google Documents, moved Visionbot from Vaporware to Further Machines, renamed DIY to "Plan Only"
Update 2016-04-02: included SmallSMT´s comments
Update 2016-04-04: clarified height limitation for the Qihe machines
Update 2016-04-05: added VisionBot

Max

[Royce]

There is the visionbot guy. He should perhaps be in there. http://visionbot.net/

[l0wside]

I thought of including him, but as the current status is still Vaporware (or does someone know otherwise?), I decided to skip him.
True, I should have done the same with the Varioplacer.

EDIT: Just re-checked the VisionBot website. The guy at least has two things: a solid ego and a good web designer (probably himself?). What he does not have is technical data. The "datasheet" looks colorful but that´s about it. I did not even find something about the minimum pitch.

Max

[Smallsmt]

Here is my unfinished list may it helps to add more informations.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I thought of including him, but as the current status is still Vaporware (or does someone know otherwise?), I decided to skip him.
True, I should have done the same with the Varioplacer.

Max

I did see  a post somewhere recently  that they had delivered a machine to a customer in Wales, with some footage of it working

[mrpackethead]

Here is my unfinished list may it helps to add more informations.

The VP-2800HP is missing form your list? can you add the detials for that. 

[l0wside]

I put the VP2x00D and HP versions into one column each and marked the differences to the HP separately.
Should I extend the SmallSMT data to six columns?

List will be updated later tonight.

Max

[Smallsmt]

Would be better Max because machines are so different. (servo , linear guidings, ball screw spindle , 3 side feeders)

[l0wside]

Done, see first post.
Also added Charmhigh with two machines (had not been aware of the CHMT530P yet, does not look like a major progress over the CHMT48).

Charmhigh also have the CHMT36 and CHMT28, both without vision. Look like the Neoden machines with an extra display. Might include them in the next update.

During my research, I came across https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/PnP_Machine_Evaluation - another attempt at an overview.

Max

[mrpackethead]

Theres also boreytech that ou might want to check out.

[l0wside]

OK...they have quite a range of machines.
Will check them out tomorrow. Good night.

Max

[l0wside]

Boreytech is now included. Guessing from the videos, their machines look pretty solid, they also seem to have a range of larger machines. With the four-head machines, they claim 9600 cph, which does not seem to be totally out of scope.
Put a lot of question marks, the website is a disaster (starting with Google warning me of malicious content on the site). If someone would bother to contact them and clarify the open points (mainly regarding trays), I would be grateful. If someone happens to be in Beijing, he could pay a visit to them. Bringing a native speaker along might prove useful.
What makes me scratch my head is the fact that they have a site on Aliexpress, but zero products there.

Anyone buying from them might have a good chance to be their first customer outside China.


Re OpenPNP: they list three machines on their website, but one is old, the other one (Teton) does not have any documentation to speak of, and the last one lives in a Github repository. Someone must have built one of them, but I could not find any performance data.

Max

[mikeselectricstuff]

Re OpenPNP: they list three machines on their website, but one is old, the other one (Teton) does not have any documentation to speak of, and the last one lives in a Github repository. Someone must have built one of them, but I could not find any performance data.

openpnp is primarily a software project, at least at the moment, so performance figures aren't meanigful

[l0wside]

My intention was to introduce a third section (besides "kits" and "machines") called "OpenPNP". I am well aware that OpenPNP is not a HW project.

My current conclusion is: no machine with OpenPNP is currently available (neither as kit nor as finished device), so I´ll skip OpenPNP. Maybe it will run with Liteplacer or the TVM802 one day.

Max

[vonnieda]

My intention was to introduce a third section (besides "kits" and "machines") called "OpenPNP". I am well aware that OpenPNP is not a HW project.

My current conclusion is: no machine with OpenPNP is currently available (neither as kit nor as finished device), so I´ll skip OpenPNP. Maybe it will run with Liteplacer or the TVM802 one day.

Max

Hi Max,

I think you are doing a valuable service here. I've done a little bit of work documenting some commercial machines but really it's just a list of links and a few things I think are "interesting" about each one.

I hope you don't mind if I make two suggestions:

1. You might consider putting this on a Wiki page somewhere, instead of as a PDF. It will make it a lot easier for people to get access to. You can create a repository on Github for free that comes with a free wiki.

2. May I suggest your third section be called "DIY" or "Plans"? The two non-commercial OpenPnP machines listed on the site both include BOMs and instructions for building. They are not commercially available either as a complete machine or as a kit but the plans include everything you need to build it yourself. That being said, I agree with your comment that you can't currently include these machines due to lack of data. That's something I'm going to work on.

In any case, very nice work. I think this a valuable document you've put together!

Jason

[mikeselectricstuff]

There is the visionbot guy. He should perhaps be in there. http://visionbot.net/

According to the website they've shipped 3 units. Production rate limited by the fact the guy's still in college...

[sparkswillfly]

Thanks.  Could you add a feeder type criteria and have fixed, cassette electronic (neoden 4), cassette pneumatic (a few)

Also there is TVM920

Maybe this could be a hosted Google sheet instead of offline files?

[l0wside]

Jason, @sparkswillfly: thank you for your suggestions.

The table is now at Google Docs. Seemed more sensible to me than starting a full-fledged Github project just to have a single Wiki page.
The document is open for public comment at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s9YmD-L69UXG5paMiz0pwO06J9nptdcopGrSa_s9t_E/edit?usp=sharing
I did not enable editing for everyone for fear of vandalism. I am not Wikipedia who have sufficient resources to sort these things out.

TVM920 is now also included - with a lot of question marks, the data is pretty sparse.

If you have any hard data on the Visionbot, please post them here, or add them in the comments, or PM me, or whatever. I feel unable to find something.

The table now has a section called "plans only", see change note in first post.

Max

[ar__systems]

For TVM802x max height from tray remains only a theoretical capability since with stock s/w there is no way to control order of placing parts. The s/w will reorder the list per it's own algorithm and then it might hit the parts already installed.

Also, if for any reason the pressure sensor will malfunction (which it does, a lot) during placement, it will abort it's current plan and move to discard the component on the needle, again, with a real possibility of knocking off parts already installed.

[l0wside]

Thank you. I have removed the remark "10mm (from tray)".

Max

[l0wside]

Seems that Wingdings and Google Docs don´t mix very well.

Fixed, now showing + and - (less fancy, more portable).

Max

[alexandru]

So far we shipped three units. Two in Romania and one in UK. All of the machines were designed and assembled in Romania, European Union and not in China. This is why all of our customers with legal entities from the European Union don't have to pay any tax, VAT, customs. Here is a new video uploaded by Dave from Megapoints showing VisionBot pick and placing  200x 0805 resistors and leds to assembly his products.



This video was filmed after 5 days Dave received and powered on our machine. The new units will have Juki nozzles 50x and now are working on improving the speed. As Mike pointed out, I am still a college student and this year I have the graduation exams. Through this month and mid of the next month, me and my engineers may ship 5 new VisionBot 24 and 32 units. We are looking to accelerate our production line. We are 3 guys and a half(part time), but we are quite limited in our production rate because simply we are not chinese... We are are also self-funded. Between 19 to 20 April we will exhibit a VisionBot 24 at the Webit.Festival Europe from Sofia, Bulgaria. In our production warehouse we have about 10 units, but all of them are in different stages. We will update our datasheet in a couple of days.

LATER EDIT

This is our production line. In the picture you can see 8 VisionBot PnP. We have also a 2nd room with 3 other complete PnP machines.

[l0wside]

Hi Alexandru,

congratulations at what you have pulled off. This is quite impressive, even more so if I think back at my time as an engineering student 

Could you do me a favor and add the data of the VisionBot to the table which I linked in the first post? You can add comments, I will then integrate them into the table. Otherwise just post them here. Or add them to your datasheet and notify us of the update.

Is 0805 the smallest which you can place?

Max

[alexandru]

Could you do me a favor and add the data of the VisionBot to the table which I linked in the first post? You can add comments, I will then integrate them into the table. Otherwise just post them here. Or add them to your datasheet and notify us of the update.

Is 0805 the smallest which you can place?

Hello Max and guys,

Thank you very much guys for mentioning our machines in the list. We tested and placed 0603 a lot of time even with our own nozzles and this weekend we will make a video showing VisionBot placing 0402 on a dummy PCB, but with the new Juki nozzle 501. In the above video, Dave  assembled only 0805 in his panelized batch because he is actually using 0805 in his PCBs - so he was not doing a test, he was actually assemblying his real products. We placed also with Bottom Vision TQFP 144 pins - we couldn't test the machine with a lot of components because we don't have them in the stock here.

Here is a video published by us 5 months ago showing VisionBot assemblying 0603 resistors with Vision



Later Edit:
btw: We have a legal tax number in Romania, the company full name is SC BIT TECHNOLOGIES RO SRL-D which is owned by me, and there are NO customs, VAT, taxes for legal entities based in the European Union. The price is 3000 USD, and the cheapest shipping for major cities of the European Union can go as low as to 200 USD.

[l0wside]

Hi Alexandru,

just updated the list (and will likely start a discussion thread on the VisionBot).

Regarding taxes, I just checked:

• Inside the EU, your customers will not be subject to import duties. Depending on how the Swiss classify the machine, it will be exempt from import duties as well (TARIC 8479.5020 industrial robot might make sense, this would be duty free).
• VAT is applicable only to private persons. Anyone running his own company which is subject to VAT can deduct the VAT for the Varioplacer from his tax burden. This is however valid for all machines listed in the table. Switzerland is no different here.

Max