First boards from ALLPCB.COM - Postive expereince.

[Monkeh]

lthough they tweaked sizes a bit which has caused some issues - I'd rather they have left that alone or asked first.. or at least noticed the overlaps.

Did you check the gerber files? I don't know what program you are using, but I've stumbled in Proteus that silkscreen that you see while creating layout and what's in the gerber has slightly different size / position..

Yes, I checked. It's tight, but the source gerbers do not overlap - they also changed the line thickness visibly on the altered silk.

Some of my thinner lines haven't come out consistently so I guess I was right on the edge.

[NorthGuy]

Yes, I checked. It's tight, but the source gerbers do not overlap - they also changed the line thickness visibly on the altered silk.

Some of my thinner lines haven't come out consistently so I guess I was right on the edge.

Would you post a picture of how it is and how it should've been?

[pulsar123]

Yeah, the waste thing is an issue. I general try to design my boards so they can be used for several purposes. I have a focus rail controller board that can be used for a number of camera related projects, for example.

On an earlier point, I have done a number of boards through ALLPCB and have never gotten extras.

Interesting - my very first board from allpcb (I posted pics here on the previous page) is in the same category - to control a stepper motor, camera shutter, and external flashes, with Nokia 5110 LCD and 4x4 keypad. The original purpose is for a 3D scanner (taking multiple photos of an object from different angles, for photogrammetry), though it can be used for many other photography related projects. A year ago I also made my own macro stacking rail (http://pulsar124.wikia.com/wiki/Fast_Stacker), with very similar hardware, but I used prototype boards. I might want to redo it with a proper PCB (also I now have a 3D printer, so a nicer enclosure can be made).

[phil from seattle]

Yeah, the waste thing is an issue. I general try to design my boards so they can be used for several purposes. I have a focus rail controller board that can be used for a number of camera related projects, for example.

On an earlier point, I have done a number of boards through ALLPCB and have never gotten extras.

Interesting - my very first board from allpcb (I posted pics here on the previous page) is in the same category - to control a stepper motor, camera shutter, and external flashes, with Nokia 5110 LCD and 4x4 keypad. The original purpose is for a 3D scanner (taking multiple photos of an object from different angles, for photogrammetry), though it can be used for many other photography related projects. A year ago I also made my own macro stacking rail (http://pulsar124.wikia.com/wiki/Fast_Stacker), with very similar hardware, but I used prototype boards. I might want to redo it with a proper PCB (also I now have a 3D printer, so a nicer enclosure can be made).

Great minds think alike. Sounds similar though I'm using one of the those 2.2" touch TFT LCD displays with the integrated SD Card slot.  I've used the Nokia 5110 LCD in the past but really like this one. With a fast enough controller and lots of flash, you can do some really nice fonts. Paul Stoffregen's IL9341 display driver rocks. I only have 4 buttons but am looking to move to a rotary encoder. I support the touch interface but it's just not that good and doesn't really add to the UI. Will probably repurpose those pins in the next turn of the design - I think a second stepper interface is more useful. The free shipping deal allows me to try different ideas out quickly and cheaply.

[pulsar123]

Great minds think alike. Sounds similar though I'm using one of the those 2.2" touch TFT LCD displays with the integrated SD Card slot.  I've used the Nokia 5110 LCD in the past but really like this one. With a fast enough controller and lots of flash, you can do some really nice fonts. Paul Stoffregen's IL9341 display driver rocks. I only have 4 buttons but am looking to move to a rotary encoder. I support the touch interface but it's just not that good and doesn't really add to the UI. Will probably repurpose those pins in the next turn of the design - I think a second stepper interface is more useful. The free shipping deal allows me to try different ideas out quickly and cheaply.

I really liked the real (not membrane) but still very cheap 4x4 keypad. I designed my Fast Stacker with a professional use in mind - no menus, instead all the functions (a few dozens) are instantly accessible via one- or -two- key combinations (sort of Ctrl_* and Alt-*).

Sorry for highjacking this thread...

[Monkeh]

Yes, I checked. It's tight, but the source gerbers do not overlap - they also changed the line thickness visibly on the altered silk.

Some of my thinner lines haven't come out consistently so I guess I was right on the edge.

Would you post a picture of how it is and how it should've been?

Apologies for the differing angles - this is more or less the product of taking 50 shots and looking for the best. A phone is not a camera. A phone is not a camera. A phone is not a camera.

The JLCPCB appears to be an actual silkscreening process and leaky around the edges, making it very hard to read unmagnified - but every line is present and accounted for.


ALLPCB appears to be inkjet style printing and the resolution just wasn't up to the details I asked for. Not 100% sure the size has been changed now I can compare it better, but it's very inconsistent and that overlap shouldn't exist.


For comparison, the same size and settings on an unrelated board produced by DirtyPCBs. Looks like silk, somewhat cleaner than JLCPCB. Still a little thick, but very readable by eye.


And finally a shot of the same area from the gerbers.


I am asking a lot of bargain basement production: Those are 0.1mm thick lines around the 0603 footprints - ALLPCB can't consistently print them (their spec is >=0.15mm) and the other fabs appear to print them rather thick.

No real complaints with any of them - The silk's a bit crusty from JLCPCB, but they managed to get mask under one awkward footprint that ALLPCB gave up on. Both had some difficulties with the smaller of my plated slots - and DirtyPCBs had an issue with milling them at an angle on that board over two different runs.. They're all pretty amazing for what they charge.

[Monkeh]

And an added bonus: A quickly tweaked for contrast photo of the mark in the copper:



That exact pattern is all over most (but not all) of the boards from ALLPCB, on both sides. I'm guessing it's from a protective film. Looks like a six-toed frog..

[pulsar123]

Don't use a camera (or a cell phone) for PCB pics - a regular scanner will do a much better job (see my images on the previous page) - no geometric distortion, sharp everywhere, good lighting...

[Monkeh]

I don't have a scanner. I'm well aware they're ideal for this, but I also have exactly zero other uses for one..

[mrpackethead]

There seems to be an expectation that silk screens are like fine art.   But really they are not.    My pcbs have increasingly less silk screen as theres simply no were to put it.

[NorthGuy]

This is a lot of pixelation, even on straight lines.

Interesting that the way the silk screen is removed is not consistent - it is removed next to some pads, but then it remains at the same distance to the other pad of the same resistor. Computer would never do such thing. I cannot believe they did it manually.

Very strange that R39 shifted to the left and covered C28. The size is still the same. May be it is some sort of bug in their software. Or, perhaps someone was editing it and shifted it accidentally.

[phil from seattle]

I wonder if the misplaced printing is a font problem.  Although, it looks the gerber uses vectors for the text, there are actual fonts that look vector based. Board houses all seem to interpret actual fonts differently.

[mercrazy]

i've bought boards from allpcb 3 times.
these were all aluminum core smt boards.
the only thing i could find that wasn't perfect was the silk screen was 'slightly' misaligned.
10 aluminum boards for $2 each delivered in 5 working days is a bargain for me.
ordering was simple and straight forward using diptrace generated gerbers.
and they take paypal which adds a paypal fee but it's still a bargain.
i haven't found anything lower priced.
i can't believe all the bellyachin goin on here.

[pulsar123]

I just checked, and allpcb.com still provides the free DHL shipping option (to Canada at least). So it's not a November-only deal as some suggested here. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[SMdude]

I received some boards from ALLpcb with the free shipping 

The cost was more than $5, but these were panelised boards and the adjusted cost certainly wasn't unreasonable, so I actually got 42 boards per 100x100 panel. I ordered 5 panels and received 7.

Thank you ALLpcb!

[hagster]

Just received 15 of the 10 boards I ordered from AllPCB. Very happy with the quality, price and delivery time. Honestly, I was ok with waiting a month or so for some cheap PCBs, but for these to come all they way from China to Uk in a week is incredible. I even got a tracking number. I really cant figure how they can offer this service for the price they do.

[stn8188]

Hi all,

Appreciate the good info here. I'm about to place a prototype order and I'm leaning towards choosing allpcb. It's a 6-layer, 6/6 trace and space, but the part I'm worried about are my vias. I followed Xilinx recommendations for fanout and used a 12mil drill/19mil pad. Unfortunately that leaves me with a 3.5mil annular ring; they say the minimum is 6mil. Has anyone had any experience pushing a design through with smaller than recommended annular ring? Routing is very tight and I definitely don't want to re-do it...

Thanks,
Stephen

[mrpackethead]

Minimum anular needs to be 6mil.  They will reject it and say they cant' manufacture.

[jeremy]

Hi all,

Appreciate the good info here. I'm about to place a prototype order and I'm leaning towards choosing allpcb. It's a 6-layer, 6/6 trace and space, but the part I'm worried about are my vias. I followed Xilinx recommendations for fanout and used a 12mil drill/19mil pad. Unfortunately that leaves me with a 3.5mil annular ring; they say the minimum is 6mil. Has anyone had any experience pushing a design through with smaller than recommended annular ring? Routing is very tight and I definitely don't want to re-do it...

Thanks,
Stephens

They can probably do it, but it won’t be cheap. They have a special production line which goes down to 3mil/3mil, but as a ballpark I paid about 300 USD for a 40x40 board, 2 layer. Wouldn’t be surprised if yours was over 1k.

[NorthGuy]

Appreciate the good info here. I'm about to place a prototype order and I'm leaning towards choosing allpcb. It's a 6-layer, 6/6 trace and space, but the part I'm worried about are my vias. I followed Xilinx recommendations for fanout and used a 12mil drill/19mil pad. Unfortunately that leaves me with a 3.5mil annular ring; they say the minimum is 6mil. Has anyone had any experience pushing a design through with smaller than recommended annular ring? Routing is very tight and I definitely don't want to re-do it...

There's a poster here - asmi - he said he had successful results with 5mil annual rings for 6mil traces/specs (as I recall ordering from PCBWay). He also recommends (there is a thread here) OurPCB (WellPCB is likely the same or similar). They have better prices on 6-layer boards and, judging by his pictures, much better quality. If you wish, they have 3mil option. Also, looks like they can also do custom stack-ups.

[wraper]

Appreciate the good info here. I'm about to place a prototype order and I'm leaning towards choosing allpcb. It's a 6-layer, 6/6 trace and space, but the part I'm worried about are my vias. I followed Xilinx recommendations for fanout and used a 12mil drill/19mil pad. Unfortunately that leaves me with a 3.5mil annular ring; they say the minimum is 6mil. Has anyone had any experience pushing a design through with smaller than recommended annular ring? Routing is very tight and I definitely don't want to re-do it...

There's a poster here - asmi - he said he had successful results with 5mil annual rings for 6mil traces/specs (as I recall ordering from PCBWay). He also recommends (there is a thread here) OurPCB (WellPCB is likely the same or similar). They have better prices on 6-layer boards and, judging by his pictures, much better quality. If you wish, they have 3mil option. Also, looks like they can also do custom stack-ups.

Yep, wellpcb/ourpcb is more cost effective, especially for multilayer boards, and offer better quality, tighter tolerances. The only downside is comparably high shipping cost and a bit longer production.

[Koen]

We order six-layers and moved from AllPCB to WellPCB. Better quality, similar price and most important to us : much easier to get something slightly out of the norm.

[xaxaxa]

just a note for anyone having issues with their gerbers - I always use oshpark's website to check my gerbers prior to sending it to any pcb fab; just upload your zip and it will generate renderings of your board as well as tell you if anything is wrong with your files.

[AndyC_772]

Do any of these outfits do controlled impedance? Has anyone tried it?

[asmi]

Do any of these outfits do controlled impedance? Has anyone tried it?

OurPCB does. There is my thread here where I describe my experience, as well as review of boards. DDR3-800 works fine, and so do 800 Mbps HDMI data lanes. Still working on HDL to verify 6G lanes of USB3. Overall impression is - they are awesome.