How to order 10-50 pcs of my own pcb design

[boffin]

For small boards, and a proto run (3 boards), it's hard to beat oshpark
For a larger run (10), I've used DirtyPCBs and I just placed a 100 order with them; I'll report when they arrive, but the last batch they did were fine.

[ansonbao]

oldschool electican?Please PM me and I will sponsor the pcb for you.

[Dubbie]

That’s an interesting board blueskull. Do you have a pic of it populated? Why does it need to be so tiny?

[NorthGuy]

I am pcbway manager and you can ask me any questions about pcb technology

I have a question. You silently add some sort of serial number to the silk screen design. Is there any way to get rid of it?

[Richard Crowley]

I am pcbway manager and you can ask me any questions about pcb technology.

I have a question.  Why can't I put six of my 30x40mm boards into your 100x100mm?
What's the difference to your fab process?   I don't need scoring or routing.
It just seems like an artificial way of increasing sales/profits.

[Richard Crowley]

It's common for Chinese fabs to charge extras for panelizing different designs. If you have multiple of same design, usually they panelize them for you for free.

Sure, they will "panelize them for free", but they will charge me as much for a 30x40 as for 100x100 so "free panelization" doesn't seem like much of a deal at 6x the price.

[Fortran]

The only bad thing about elecrow that i've come across is their black color solder mask is crap now (it used to be fine).

It's definitely not good enough to use as a front panel for a product your selling.

You must have had bad luck then. My boards don't look anything like that.
One arrived yesterday. The other about 6 months ago.

[ansonbao]

I am pcbway manager and you can ask me any questions about pcb technology

I have a question. You silently add some sort of serial number to the silk screen design. Is there any way to get rid of it?

serial number is used for our shipping department,or they will crazy .If you don't need it just send mail to your sale rep before production.

[mrpackethead]

Ansonbao, you missed this question..  Why do you charge extra for having more than one design

I am pcbway manager and you can ask me any questions about pcb technology.

I have a question.  Why can't I put six of my 30x40mm boards into your 100x100mm?
What's the difference to your fab process?   I don't need scoring or routing.
It just seems like an artificial way of increasing sales/profits.

[ansonbao]

I am pcbway manager and you can ask me any questions about pcb technology.

I have a question.  Why can't I put six of my 30x40mm boards into your 100x100mm?
What's the difference to your fab process?   I don't need scoring or routing.
It just seems like an artificial way of increasing sales/profits.

The six pcb is the same design?If yes,we will take this as one panel but will add other material fee.

[Richard Crowley]

I am pcbway manager and you can ask me any questions about pcb technology.

I have a question.  Why can't I put six of my 30x40mm boards into your 100x100mm?
What's the difference to your fab process?   I don't need scoring or routing.
It just seems like an artificial way of increasing sales/profits.

The six pcb is the same design?If yes,we will take this as one panel but will add other material fee.

Not answered.  WHY is there "other material fee"?  What "other material" is there here?  We don't understand? And what difference if same or different designs?  Pattern is pattern.  Holes are holes.  This seems like an arbitrary policy that has nothing to do with technical production complexity.

[JPlocher]

It is an arbitrary policy aimed at distinguishing between "prototyping" and "production" use cases, and serves the purpose of keeping the fab company's profit margins healthy.  We all know that the the fabs all try to offer cheap prototyping services at a wash/loss in the hope that your bulk, profitable production orders will also come to them.

By some definition, a panelized design isn't a prototype any longer, and therefore doesn't fall under their subsidized cheap prototypes price point.

Get over it.  So what if it costs you $10 for 10 boards instead of $5 for 10 - compare against $30-$50 for 3x boards elsewhere and be happy that prototyping is so inexpensive.

  -John

[mrpackethead]

No,  different designs.   Why do you charge extra fees if i put two or three different designs on a pcb.

I am pcbway manager and you can ask me any questions about pcb technology.

I have a question.  Why can't I put six of my 30x40mm boards into your 100x100mm?
What's the difference to your fab process?   I don't need scoring or routing.
It just seems like an artificial way of increasing sales/profits.

The six pcb is the same design?If yes,we will take this as one panel but will add other material fee.

[NorthGuy]

It is an arbitrary policy aimed at distinguishing between "prototyping" and "production" use cases, and serves the purpose of keeping the fab company's profit margins healthy.  We all know that the the fabs all try to offer cheap prototyping services at a wash/loss in the hope that your bulk, profitable production orders will also come to them.

By some definition, a panelized design isn't a prototype any longer, and therefore doesn't fall under their subsidized cheap prototypes price point.

Get over it.  So what if it costs you $10 for 10 boards instead of $5 for 10 - compare against $30-$50 for 3x boards elsewhere and be happy that prototyping is so inexpensive.

I don't think so. It is not for you to decide what it takes for the people to be happy.

For prototyping, I mostly use Oshpark. Since prototyping boards are usually small, it comes out to be the cheapest, and, at the same time, offers the highest quality. They don't ask me what I do and how I'm going to use their boards. Even if I would buy them to tile my bathroom, it doesn't bother them a bit. It is not their business how I use their boards. They just produce the boards as advertised. If I order something from them and then they call back to me and say that they need to charge me more because they think I'm going to use their boards to make money, I will stop using them the same day.

[mrpackethead]

I'm hopeing Anson will be able to provide an answer to the question of why multiple designs on the same pcb have extra charges.    I'm wanting him to provide the answer. The opinions of others are interesting but wont' provide the answer that i'm seeking a definitative answer on.

Get over it.  So what if it costs you $10 for 10 boards instead of $5 for 10 - compare against $30-$50 for 3x boards elsewhere and be happy that prototyping is so inexpensive.

  -John

[Richard Crowley]

The strong appearance is that it is an arbitrary marketing policy that has nothing to do with the technical process.
In fact, it takes human eyeballs to even see whether there are any duplicated patterns on the board. Else the process wouldn't know the difference.
It appears that it is a "loss-leader" product that they don't want "abused" for "production".
Apparently there are SOME vendors who don't care what is inside the 100x100mm space.

[mrpackethead]

well hopefully anson can tell us

The strong appearance is that it is an arbitrary marketing policy that has nothing to do with the technical process.
In fact, it takes human eyeballs to even see whether there are any duplicated patterns on the board. Else the process wouldn't know the difference.
It appears that it is a "loss-leader" product that they don't want "abused" for "production".
Apparently there are SOME vendors who don't care what is inside the 100x100mm space.

[rsfoto]

Hi! I`m oldschool electican. So sorry for stupid questions


I see banners what says '10 PCBs for $2' and similar
Is it real?

Can I order manufacturing 10-50 my own pcbs? What price is affordable? What way is reliable?

My pcbs wery simple - 1-2 layers and mask acuracy of 1.5mm is satisfactory for me 

Hi,

I made some first PCB this year and worked with PCBway. I am not an expert but quality looks good to me.

My second batch were 10 different PCB and because it is still in prototyping I only ordered 5 pieces. One of the Gerber files had errors. I got en e-mail from them with an image explaining what was wrong. I corrected it and then they went into production.

I ordered them on October 3rd and got them October 10. So about 7 days wait and if I remember well in China those days they were in Holidays and started production until 5th of October. So turn around time is very fast. I do live in Mexico.

Below an image of what I send them. The smallest PCB is 10mm by 18mm. The silkscreen writing is good and easily redable. All in all I paid US $ 78.00 including shipping for this production. IS $ 1.00 per piece plus US $ 25.00 for shipping. % times cheaper then any producer here in Mexico.

All in all I am very satisfied so far with them.

regards Rainer

[rsfoto]

The strong appearance is that it is an arbitrary marketing policy that has nothing to do with the technical process.
In fact, it takes human eyeballs to even see whether there are any duplicated patterns on the board. Else the process wouldn't know the difference.
It appears that it is a "loss-leader" product that they don't want "abused" for "production".
Apparently there are SOME vendors who don't care what is inside the 100x100mm space.

Interesting rant :-)

I just went to their site in the internet and made a calculation.

My smallest board in the last batch was 10x18mm

OK I can panel 50 pieces on a 100mm x 90mm and the minimum quantity is 5 boards so I would get 250 PCB in 18mm x 10mm size and that would cost me US 27.00 plus shipping

Now I went into the next calculation and input 18x10mm and 250 pieces and that would cost US $ 43.00

for US $ 16.00 difference ¿ do you really want to mess with separating 5x 50 pieces ? that is a piece difference of US $ 0.064 per piece (US $ 16.00 / 250pieces). For that difference I would not do that messy job ... let them cut up my 250 boards :-)

regards Rainer

[Richard Crowley]

for US $ 16.00 difference ¿ do you really want to mess with separating 5x 50 pieces ? that is a piece difference of US $ 0.064 per piece (US $ 16.00 / 250pieces). For that difference I would not do that messy job ... let them cut up my 250 boards :-)

Yes, I agree for such small boards.
But I have several designs that are all ~ 30x40mm or 30x50mm. Pretty easy to cut apart after populating and soldering.  In that size range, the price difference seems much more substantial.  Not to mention the convenience of handling panelized units during assembly.

[rsfoto]

for US $ 16.00 difference ¿ do you really want to mess with separating 5x 50 pieces ? that is a piece difference of US $ 0.064 per piece (US $ 16.00 / 250pieces). For that difference I would not do that messy job ... let them cut up my 250 boards :-)

Yes, I agree for such small boards.
But I have several designs that are all ~ 30x40mm or 30x50mm. Pretty easy to cut apart after populating and soldering.  In that size range, the price difference seems much more substantial.  Not to mention the convenience of handling panelized units during assembly.

Understood. I am just a manual assembler and solder. :-)

[mrpackethead]

Im not ranting, but i want to understand ( from Anson ) why they charge extra fees if you put several designs on the same board.   I cant' see why it costs more, than having single designs, but their may be a good reason, and it would be good to know.  Otherwise we are guessing, and just offering our opinions based on what we dont know.

[mrpackethead]

Im not ranting, but i want to understand ( from Anson ) why they charge extra fees if you put several designs on the same board.   I cant' see why it costs more, than having single designs, but their may be a good reason, and it would be good to know.  Otherwise we are guessing, and just offering our opinions based on what we dont know.

My 2 cents: opportunity cost. They would rather charge you by your lost if they don't serve you, or their loss if you do your own internal PCB pooling service.

Thanks for your cents. I'll put them in the collection.  What i'm really interested in is 100 Yuan of information from Anson.

[hendorog]

It doesn't matter what it costs. All that matters is what customers are prepared to pay.   

[cgroen]

Im not ranting, but i want to understand ( from Anson ) why they charge extra fees if you put several designs on the same board.   I cant' see why it costs more, than having single designs, but their may be a good reason, and it would be good to know.  Otherwise we are guessing, and just offering our opinions based on what we dont know.

Maybe because they can ? Or maybe because the value to the customer is higher and therefore they can charge a little extra (because of this added value). It is not so that you only pay for the raw materials in the first place... No matter what, the prices are VERY reasonable in the first place (and I guess the PCB fabs needs to make a living like the rest of the world...)