Author Topic: MORNSUN on the naughty step  (Read 15098 times)

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Offline DerekG

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2024, 12:24:53 am »
Just noticed that there are now some Mornsum products on Digikey listed as "Mornsun America LLC"

I notice that all the Mornsun products I looked at on the Digikey website state "Not for New Designs".

Part of the sanctions state that Western entities are not to provide financial incentives (ie money) to sanctioned entities. I'm assuming that Digikey had already paid for the Mornsun products before the sanctions were imposed & that the products had left China en-route for the USA. The fact there was such a delay in showing up on the Digikey website indicates that there was probably quite a lot of negotiating/explaining with USA customs for their eventual release. I suspect this is now the end of the line for Mornsun products entering Western countries.

Be aware that some of the Mornsun products now have expired UL & other certifications, which Mornsun cannot overcome due to the sanctions.
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Offline Mangozac

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2024, 11:14:52 pm »
Just noticed that there are now some Mornsum products on Digikey listed as "Mornsun America LLC"
The fact there was such a delay in showing up on the Digikey website indicates that there was probably quite a lot of negotiating/explaining with USA customs for their eventual release. I suspect this is now the end of the line for Mornsun products entering Western countries
This makes sense.

Mornsun is effectively dead - the sanctions have destroyed the business. Their staff have all jumped ship and customers have transitioned to equivalents from other suppliers so I don't see any recovery from this.
 

Offline Zoli

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2024, 12:18:22 am »
Heads-up: sale of the Mornsun parts is subject of approval; I've placed the order yesterday, get the notification today. I will chime in again when the approval/parts are received.
Edit: ordered from Digikey.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2024, 12:28:14 am by Zoli »
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2024, 12:34:23 am »
Heads-up: sale of the Mornsun parts is subject of approval; I've placed the order yesterday, get the notification today. I will chime in again when the approval/parts are received.
Edit: ordered from Digikey.

My understanding is that Digikey will not export existing stock of Mornsun parts out of the USA as they will be captured by Customs on the way in/way out.

It may however be that Canada & the USA have a close enough relationship to allow the import/export of restricted items. You will know the answer in the next day or two.
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Offline Zoli

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2024, 06:29:30 am »
Update: shipped.
Details: special agreement regarding the NCNR(non-cancellable non-returnable) clause; no warranties.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2024, 02:53:13 am »
Update: shipped.

Lucky you!

Be aware that some of the Mornsun products no longer have UL & IEC etc approvals, as these have lapsed & Western countries are not allowed to re-test & get paid for the re-accreditation.
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Offline mtwieg

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2024, 12:37:52 pm »
Has anyone been able to deduce which Mornsun products were supposedly so critical to Russia's war efforts that it warranted sanctions?

The most specific info I can find is this:
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MORNSUN GUANGZHOU SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY CO LTD (MORNSUN) is a PRC-based supplier of Tier 1 and Tier 3.A items on the BIS Common High Priority List to Russia-based end users. Items MORNSUN has supplied include electronic integral monolithic circuits. One of the Russia-based companies that received components from MORNSUN was identified as a supplier to a Russia-based entity that specializes in the production and marketing of airborne equipment for military aircraft, such as airborne weapons control radars for Russian fighter aircraft.
With Tier 1 being defined as:
Quote
Tier 1: Items of the highest concern due to their critical role in the production of advanced Russian precision-guided weapons systems, Russia’s lack of domestic production, and limited global manufacturers.
I have a lot of trouble believing Mornsun makes anything like that.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2024, 09:00:20 pm »
I have a lot of trouble believing Mornsun makes anything like that.

There was discussion in the other thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whered-mornsun-go/msg5506015/#msg5506015

Anyway, did you look at the list? https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/all-articles/13-policy-guidance/country-guidance/2172-russia-export-controls-list-of-common-high-priority-items

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TIER 1
HS Code HS Description and Representative Part
8542.31 Electronic integrated circuits: Processors and controllers, whether or not combined with memories, convertors, logic circuits, amplifiers, clock and timing circuits, or other circuits
...
8542.39 Electronic integrated circuits

DC DC converter probably can fall under "IC".
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Offline mtwieg

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2024, 01:53:04 pm »

There was discussion in the other thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whered-mornsun-go/msg5506015/#msg5506015
I had seen that, but didn't see any answer to my question...

Quote
Anyway, did you look at the list? https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/all-articles/13-policy-guidance/country-guidance/2172-russia-export-controls-list-of-common-high-priority-items
Yes, that's where I copied my definition of "TIER 1 from". But as you point out, there are re-definitions of these tiers down below. The first set of definitions are according to how critical and/or replaceable the components are (makes sense I guess). Second set of definitions are just based on what the component is (seems silly, an "integrated circuit" means a logic gate or an FPGA, I guess?)

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DC DC converter probably can fall under "IC".
Yeah but as been pointed out many times, Russian weapons are more dependent on components, including ICs, from companies held in the west.

Seems like these sanctions are just an extension of the trade wars with the PRC rather than the war in Ukraine.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2024, 01:55:06 pm by mtwieg »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2024, 10:47:52 pm »
Seems like these sanctions are just an extension of the trade wars with the PRC rather than the war in Ukraine.

Has nothing to do with trade wars.
If you actually want to get into that you'd be discussing nvidia, and preferably on another forum as it would get too political.
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Offline ajb

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2024, 01:15:56 am »
Quote
Anyway, did you look at the list? https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/all-articles/13-policy-guidance/country-guidance/2172-russia-export-controls-list-of-common-high-priority-items
Yes, that's where I copied my definition of "TIER 1 from". But as you point out, there are re-definitions of these tiers down below. The first set of definitions are according to how critical and/or replaceable the components are (makes sense I guess). Second set of definitions are just based on what the component is (seems silly, an "integrated circuit" means a logic gate or an FPGA, I guess?)

They're not redefined.  The first section explains the criteria for inclusion in each tier, and the second section gives the specific items that have been assigned to each tier based on those criteria.  The second list is what actually matters in terms of compliance because it gives the specific HS tariff codes that are affected, which are recognized internationally for import/export classification.  Those codes don't really distinguish between 'IC' and 'IC that you might plausibly use in a missile', but those lines are increasingly blurred these days anyway, since commodity electronic hardware is so capable now.  And anyway, guided missiles need power supplies just as critically as they need high end processors or whatever.

Quote
Quote
DC DC converter probably can fall under "IC".
Yeah but as been pointed out many times, Russian weapons are more dependent on components, including ICs, from companies held in the west.

It's very difficult to block 100% of all illicit exports, as every one of your links points out.  All of these large companies will have established import/export compliance programs (which, granted, some will take more seriously than others) intended to catch improper exports, especially via straw purchase or improper re-export, but that's clearly not adequate to catch every straw purchase before it happens.  Sure, a lot of them could probably do better.  Sure, the US could definitely do a better job of funding the agencies that are supposed to enforce these things (ref: your second link).  Neither of those means that there should be no enforcement at all when improper exports are caught.  While a perfectly effective blockade would be better, an imperfect one is arguably still worthwhile.   

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Seems like these sanctions are just an extension of the trade wars with the PRC rather than the war in Ukraine.

Nah, we're using import tariffs for that, because some very stupid people don't understand how anything works.  I guess they aren't getting all these emails from their suppliers about price increases....
 
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Offline Zoli

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Re: MORNSUN on the naughty step
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2024, 01:51:58 am »
Second update: I've received the order. It get delayed a day, most likely customs paperwork. My conclusion: If it's still available, and it fit my needs, I will consider them.
To sum up the cons: non-cancel-able, non-returnable, no warranties, custom(personalized) sales agreement, delayed shipping.
 


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