Author Topic: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering  (Read 4117 times)

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Offline IanB

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2022, 03:02:05 am »
I mean, i'd rather it were near Stratford, but anywhere on the tube/overground/Elizabeth line would be fine

Stratford had plenty of light industrial space before 2012 and the Olympics. Then it all got bulldozed in the name of progress and replaced with flats (apartments).

Britain really doesn't like industry, as it happens. Find any industrial area in any town, and watch how it disappears to be replaced by mixed use residential, retail, office developments. Post-Brexit Britain will manufacture nothing, and import nothing. I sometimes wonder how anyone thinks the country has a future at all.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 03:03:50 am by IanB »
 
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Offline Faringdon

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2022, 08:18:18 am »
Thanks, ive lived in flats where i could have done this at home...but unfortunately where i am now is different...the Landlord lives in.....if theres a mains "snap" from a short cct etc, he wont like it.
He's already said no work activity in his house.
I did all the PCB layout at a freinds house or in the local library.

https://www.thestorefront.com/selections/cheap-commercial-property-london
...thanks for the above link, but all are >£800 per month. (or not lockable)
My best quote so far is £800/month, but im trying to get cheaper because all thats needed is a small room with a plug socket and a window
(also need >office hours access, pref 24hr, and lockable, and month to month rent, not 6 month contract)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 08:26:05 am by Faringdon »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2022, 10:44:52 am »
Thanks, ive lived in flats where i could have done this at home...but unfortunately where i am now is different...the Landlord lives in.....if theres a mains "snap" from a short cct etc, he wont like it.
He's already said no work activity in his house.

That's quite possibly an insurance condition, or to ensure no local tax liability.

Find another place to live in.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online langwadt

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2022, 10:50:30 am »
Thanks, ive lived in flats where i could have done this at home...but unfortunately where i am now is different...the Landlord lives in.....if theres a mains "snap" from a short cct etc, he wont like it.
He's already said no work activity in his house.
I did all the PCB layout at a freinds house or in the local library.

so you can't even use a computer?
 
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Offline SMTech

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2022, 11:29:11 am »
Thanks, ive lived in flats where i could have done this at home...but unfortunately where i am now is different...the Landlord lives in.....if theres a mains "snap" from a short cct etc, he wont like it.
He's already said no work activity in his house.
I did all the PCB layout at a freinds house or in the local library.

so you can't even use a computer?

Almost sounds like they're renting a room, student style. All the same, the OP repeatedly states this is a hobby, so I think taking your laptop elsewhere to work on it, is a little OTT. It's nobodies business but yours what you are doing on your laptop. (OK maybe if power was included in your rent and you were crypto-mining it would matter). Even home owners technically have restrictions like not running a business off the premises, those restrictions are there to comply with terms of use attached to the land/zoning as well as to remove the accompanying traffic and other disturbances that come with a business. You'd only run into trouble for doing so if it impinged enough on your neighbours for them to notice and complain.

Long term however, how often in the future how often might you want such a space? Surely you have all sorts of other equipment you want to use and store to do this kind of work? Plenty of places elsewhere in the UK you could easily rent/borrow a space and get a better place to live.
 
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Offline Faringdon

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2022, 03:01:23 pm »
Thanks,
I just viewed an office near central London...but the window wasnt open-able...so the solder smoke would have collected up too much.....there was light air-con, but that coudlnt be relied upon.
 

Offline Codemonkey

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2022, 03:15:17 pm »
Ever heard of a solder fume extractor ? Basically just a small fan with a bit of absorptive foam in front to capture the smoke and compared with the cost of renting an office in London they cost peanuts!
 
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Offline Faringdon

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2022, 03:23:01 pm »
Thanks, but i am not able to do "work at home".
Also, i cannot move house, not yet......cannot move whilst this project is live.
I am working for myself, earn no money, and no estate agent will entertain me for a move.
 

Online langwadt

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2022, 03:23:59 pm »
Thanks,
I just viewed an office near central London...but the window wasnt open-able...so the solder smoke would have collected up too much.....there was light air-con, but that coudlnt be relied upon.

yeh, when building a few hundred power supplies every day the solder smoke does build up ...
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2022, 03:25:17 pm »
There are still a few old factory units being chopped up for use as workspaces. e.g. Vyner St and surrounding area in Hackney.
The ones that used to be around Hackney Wick are rapidly being displaced by new development.
Probably not so much around Stratford nowadays but still plenty of lower-end (quality, not price) housing in that area.
Short-term is probably going to be hard unless you can find someone to sublet some space they're not using.
Anything near a station in London is not going to be cheap.
I'd suggest taking some time to walk around possible areas to see what's there, chat to local business owners - the best places are found by word of mouth and never advertised.


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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2022, 04:27:43 pm »
I am working for myself, earn no money, and no estate agent will entertain me for a move.

That is a problem; even if you have an income, letting agents and mortgage companies will disregard it.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2022, 04:32:41 pm »
Hi,
Please advise if you know of any space in London, UK, that i can rent whilst i solder up and assemble a 2kW SMPS?
I am not allowed to solder in my flat.
And how are they going to fix the water pipes in there?
And how about people that smoke?

Sounds like you have asked and they said 'no' to you just to get rid of you. There really isn't a valid reason why you couldn't setup an electronics lab in your flat except for limited space.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online ebastler

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2022, 04:35:04 pm »
Things may be different in your area, but over here, classified ads portals would be one of my first bets for low-cost leases. Since the ads are free, they tend to be used to trade low-cost items.

Ebay classified ads is the big player in Germany, but it looks like they have divested that branch in the UK in preparation for some merger? I came across "Gumtree" in a search; maybe worth a look? Here's a random offer: https://www.gumtree.com/p/commercial-property-to-rent/spacious-creative-studio-office-workshop-spaces-available-in-hackney-wick-warehouse-conversions/1240748414
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 04:54:28 pm by ebastler »
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2022, 05:00:41 pm »
Hi,
Please advise if you know of any space in London, UK, that i can rent whilst i solder up and assemble a 2kW SMPS?
I am not allowed to solder in my flat.
And how are they going to fix the water pipes in there?
Pushfit (yuk) or crimp.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2022, 05:21:47 pm »
Hi,
Please advise if you know of any space in London, UK, that i can rent whilst i solder up and assemble a 2kW SMPS?
I am not allowed to solder in my flat.
And how are they going to fix the water pipes in there?
And how about people that smoke?

Sounds like you have asked and they said 'no' to you just to get rid of you. There really isn't a valid reason why you couldn't setup an electronics lab in your flat except for limited space.

The reasons can be valid to those that are in a position to impose the restriction.

"I can't be arsed to get new building structure nor contents insurance just for you" for a start.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 05:24:15 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2022, 05:30:24 pm »
Quote
And how about people that smoke?
plenty of rental  property's have a  no smoking  policy.
 
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Online langwadt

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2022, 06:28:26 pm »
Quote
And how about people that smoke?
plenty of rental  property's have a  no smoking  policy.

sure, but smoking vs. soldering is like a bonfire vs. a tee candle
 
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Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2022, 06:29:39 am »
I have seen UK lads on YT renting those small 1 floor garage lookalike units that has a shutter door. Usually they would use it for car workshop kinda business. I'm not sure about these type of units pricing but it probably the most suitable type of building that you can do what you want to do.
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2022, 09:02:40 am »
Quote
And how about people that smoke?
plenty of rental  property's have a  no smoking  policy.

sure, but smoking vs. soldering is like a bonfire vs. a tee candle

We are considering rules set insurance companies, cretinous letting agencies, and landlords looking for the most money with least understanding/effort. Hence that is irrelevant :(
« Last Edit: July 05, 2022, 09:32:45 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline Faringdon

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2022, 12:24:50 pm »
Ive now found a workspace.

However, they are saying if i rent the space, then i become liable for   "business rates".....(i believe business rates are very high in London, UK, this is NW10)

Quote
Business rates are payable on the spaces, however we encourage everyone to apply for full exemption via small business rate relief, provided it is your only commercial studio space. This is handled via Ealing Council directly, but I can share all the forms you need to submit to apply for the exemption.

So i am not sure if i can get an exemption?.....im not sure why i need an exemption, since  i am not a business, and i do not make any money. I do not even have a limited company.

Also, they are wanting
Quote
Full name and email address of someone to witness the licence.
...but my mates dont want to be "witness" to this, they say why should they, i would be paying a deposit after all, and if they act as "witness", then it must legally make them liable for any costs if something goes wrong?

Trying to start up in electronics appears to have pitfalls....do you know what are business rates for this?
I suppose i shoudl contact Ealing Borough council
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 12:52:28 pm by Faringdon »
 

Offline Codemonkey

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2022, 12:32:27 pm »
"im not sure why i need an exemption, since  i am not a business, and i do not make any money."

This is precisely why you need an exception. You are wanting to rent a business workspace but you are not a business (yet).
 
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Offline Faringdon

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2022, 12:55:51 pm »
Thanks, i appreciate i need an exemption....but the myriad of laws surrounding  business rates  may say that i jolly well pay business rates or else?
Anyway, i have written to the particular London Council to ask for clarification.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 06:26:00 pm by Faringdon »
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2022, 02:42:47 pm »
"im not sure why i need an exemption, since  i am not a business, and i do not make any money."

This is precisely why you need an exception. You are wanting to rent a business workspace but you are not a business (yet).
Business rates are usually on the type of property, not the actual usage. I doubt they are set up for anything that is not either business or residential, as defined by planning aspects. i.e. someone renting a business space for a hobby will likely cause confusion.

It's still a business property regardless what you use it for ( but there may be rules against living there), and any chnage would need to go through planning approval

Small business relief appears to be dependent on the rateable value of the property.
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-business-rate-relief/small-business-rate-relief
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Offline Faringdon

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2022, 04:38:37 pm »
This is what the workspace owner said...

Quote
Business rates are due on each of the spaces because they're commercial spaces, no matter who the occupant is - it's the commercial equivalent of council tax. This applies for people who have the studio under their personal name or are sole traders too.
But not to worry, 90% of our occupants apply for 'small business rates relief' and get full exemption.
When you move in, we'd notify the council that you've taken occupancy on the space, and they would then send through a bill.
Once you have your bill (which contains your account number), I will provide you with the form you need to send to Ealing to apply for the exemption. They should then
follow up with a bill of zero.

You can find the full details of who qualifies for exemption here...
https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201269/business_rates_reductions/2722/small_business_rate_relief

, ....but basically if the space is small enough (which our studios are designed to be) and it is your only commercial space in Ealing, then you should qualify for full exemption.

Supposing it all went wrong   and i was due for business rates, then what would the rate be?

Basically, there's no way of knowing if the council thinks its got a "rateable value" of >£12000 or not.......i mean i can write to them (i have done already)....but the answer may take time.

Also, the workspace owners want "Full name and email address of someone to witness the licence."
...my friends dont want to offer their names and emails, in case something goes wrong and they become liable......is there any way round this? (not having a "witness")?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 04:59:50 pm by Faringdon »
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Need to rent work-space for electronics soldering
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2022, 05:12:55 pm »
Quote from: Faringdon

Supposing it all went wrong   and i was due for business rates, then what would the rate be?
Also, the workspace owners want "Full name and email address of someone to witness the licence."
...my friends dont want to offer their names and emails, in case something goes wrong and they become liable......is there any way round this? (not having a "witness")?
If that person is only a "witness" by what concept can they be held liable.  In the US at least, if I witness a murder and report it, I cannot be prosecuted in lieu of the murderer. 

We have what are called Notary Publics (notaries for short) who are authorized by the state to witness all sort of things both private and government.  Usually, there is no charge.  I suspect something similar exists in the UK.

EDIT:  The thought did occur to me that the "witness" might be a guarantor, but in the US, that would probably be called a co-signer, not witness.  If a co-signer is needed, you can avoid that by paying several months in advance.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 05:44:43 pm by jpanhalt »
 
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