Neoden 4 pick and place

[Kjelt]

@smallsmt
If there are as you state different types/versions of an SMT50 machine from different manufacturers would it not be advisable to at least change the name and or remove any links such as demo videos from the website. A bit odd and raises a lot of questions if you ask me.

[mrpackethead]

@smallsmt
If there are as you state different types/versions of an SMT50 machine from different manufacturers would it not be advisable to at least change the name and or remove any links such as demo videos from the website. A bit odd and raises a lot of questions if you ask me.

What web page are you looking at, i can only see  the SMallSMT machines?

http://www.smallsmt.biz/home/gallery/

[TheSteve]

@ttsthermaltech - if we run some boards next week hopefully you can drop by.

Does your machine run Windows XP underneath, and is it properly Licenced?

Yes, the Neoden4 runs Windows XP. I don't recall there being a certificate of authenticity with the machine or a sticker anywhere with a license key. The machine boots to the PnP software and has the shutdown command embedded into the software. It is designed so you have zero interaction with the OS itself. All shortcuts and hotkeys are disabled in the registry(except one...). The install is in chinese so its not the easiest for me to navigate.

[Kjelt]

@smallsmt
If there are as you state different types/versions of an SMT50 machine from different manufacturers would it not be advisable to at least change the name and or remove any links such as demo videos from the website. A bit odd and raises a lot of questions if you ask me.

What web page are you looking at, i can only see  the SMallSMT machines?

http://www.smallsmt.biz/home/gallery/

Ok look to the left it says SMT50 demo.

[Smallsmt]

@smallsmt
If there are as you state different types/versions of an SMT50 machine from different manufacturers would it not be advisable to at least change the name and or remove any links such as demo videos from the website. A bit odd and raises a lot of questions if you ask me.

Yes you only see SMALLSMT machine i post the old videos of my SMT50 for education to show how a drag feeding machine works.
And you see it is working!

I remove it soon because it's confusing.

@smallsmt
If there are as you state different types/versions of an SMT50 machine from different manufacturers would it not be advisable to at least change the name and or remove any links such as demo videos from the website. A bit odd and raises a lot of questions if you ask me.

No I think they sold only a few machines in this configuration but i did'nt know exactly because at the time when  i bought I was a customer like Robert.

The mechanics of SMT50 machine was build by YUSHENG and the controller and software from OURSMT.

[mrpackethead]

@ttsthermaltech - if we run some boards next week hopefully you can drop by.

Does your machine run Windows XP underneath, and is it properly Licenced?

Yes, the Neoden4 runs Windows XP. I don't recall there being a certificate of authenticity with the machine or a sticker anywhere with a license key. The machine boots to the PnP software and has the shutdown command embedded into the software. It is designed so you have zero interaction with the OS itself. All shortcuts and hotkeys are disabled in the registry(except one...). The install is in chinese so its not the easiest for me to navigate.

Mmm , wonder if its legit. If anyone from Neoden is reading this, can you tell us if you are using properly registered WIndows?  Without it, the entire machine coudl get be held up by customs on entry.   Bogus software is really unhelpful.      Also whys it running on an OS that is so old? Microsoft stopped support in 2012

[ocmaster85]

Just figured that we have a dealer here on Denmark for NeoDen (pretty new, from Q4 last year they met them in Munick at an electronics fair)
They are currently waiting to recieve the first NeoDen4 unit, since the first one they got they had to return, since it could not get approved within EU standards.. Currently steppers (and last thing as it sounded on the dealer) motors did have too high RFI/EMI ratings.. They are currently fixing this issue at NeoDen and will send a new unit to the Danish dealer.. When setup, we will go and get a demo if it in their showroom..
I think it will be a higher standard, since they won't allow to sell a "half baked" product here in Denmark, since they know they have to deal with the problems coming Down the road.. (they normally deal with Yamaha pnp units)..

Looking forward to hear more in regards to improvements on both hardware and software..!!

[mikeselectricstuff]

It's not perfect of course and we could make quite a few suggestions on how to improve the software and just give the machine a better feel over all.

Have you fed these back to Neoden? How a company reacts to suggestions for improvement is a very good sign of how well they want to support their customers.
China is notorious for a "just good enough to ship" attitude with no interest in making further improvements.
If they take notice and make improvements based on feedback from their users it will set them way apart from all the other Chinese suppliers.
However I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a reply just explaining how to work around the issues (and them considering this to be good customer service) rather than express any interest in fixing them.

[Smallsmt]

If I review this thread it looks like neoden sells a well tested machine and have a good reputation isn't it?

And their dealer in Netherland Uk and Denmark are involved in testing and quality management.

So it should be a good buy?

[ttsthermaltech]

As I mentioned previously, Michael seems to have the best intentions. However, Yushentech still makes the mechanical machine for him. The sales girl (Sunny) from HotHotSMT, whom I bought the Yushentech machine from, is still listed as the sales person for SmallSMT. It is right on the SmallSMT.biz contact page...

Yes the OurSMT software is the problem. It was sold to me with a machine. The seller should be responsible for ensuring that the machine works properly, and that a good relationship is maintained with their vendor. I can only attest to what the OURSMT sales rep indicated to me regarding software. But when my machine arrives with a non-descript dongle, a non-descript CD-ROM with a copy of the software, and no manuals, things start looking like they walk, and talk like a duck...

Maybe things are getting better with the SmallSMT brand. All I know is I got hosed somewhere in the middle.

Also, if Yushentech / HotHotSMT is watching this thread, understand this. Customers are the lifeblood of a company. I am only giving others a complete and honest overview of my experience with the machine you provided. If this truly was a reputable company, they would upgrade the hardware, or a least controls / software free of charge. No questions asked. But I highly doubt this will happen... If it does happen, I would be pleasantly surprised.

[rx8pilot]

Windows XP? Is it even possible it is legitimate? I don't think Microsoft is even issuing licensing for that?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[mikeselectricstuff]

Windows XP? Is it even possible it is legitimate? I don't think Microsoft is even issuing licensing for that?

Could be XP embedded. Or old stock PCs.

[rx8pilot]

Could be XP embedded. Or old stock PCs.

Saving money is an artful balance of choices. Delicate choices to balance the cost and benefit in a way that the end result is a good value. Choosing XP is not particularly artful or balanced.

Priority 1: Low cost.
Priority 2: Make it do something useful.

[MTNELECTRONICS]

My machine was delivered yesterday afternoon and I was up until 2 AM putting it together. 

The machine's packaging was excellent.  The crate was sturdy and the machine was mounted on rubber isolators.  The head was held tightly in place. 

The stand, however was another story; it was slightly bent, but I was able to straighten it out, and none of the 30+ M5 screw holes had been tapped, so I had to drill and tap them all before I could assemble it.  After that it went together fine, but it was unnecessary work and I'm not very happy about that.  The stand is sturdy once assembled.  Mine came with the rubber isolation piece and all of the hardware necessary.

The monitor came with a non-US power cord.  Luckily it uses the standard PC/Monitor PS cord (I am not sure what the connector is called) and I had an extra laying around.  Another oversight.

The machine seems to be put together well and it did boot up and run.  The nozzles all seem to both blow and suck correctly (I am on 110V and TheSteve had mentioned that his machine did not blow correctly out of the box).   I loaded up one reel of 0805 resistors and a stick of MCUs in the vibratory feeder to give it a go at 1:30 AM (usually a bad idea).  I had watched the instruction videos several times before receiving the machine, but I was still lost at a couple of steps.  I was able to get it to pick and place a few of the 0805 resistors successfully from the reel feeder before I went to bed, so it's off to at least a decent start.   

The machine seems like it moves way too fast on 100%, but I could be wrong.  Placement speed is also super fast (without paste the parts go flying sometimes!)  I still have a lot to learn about the UI and the quirks of the machine but I'll try report back here as I get some more experience with it. 

[mrpackethead]

My machine was delivered yesterday afternoon and I was up until 2 AM putting it together. 

The machine's packaging was excellent.  The crate was sturdy and the machine was mounted on rubber isolators.  The head was held tightly in place. 

The stand, however was another story; it was slightly bent, but I was able to straighten it out, and none of the 30+ M5 screw holes had been tapped, so I had to drill and tap them all before I could assemble it.  After that it went together fine, but it was unnecessary work and I'm not very happy about that.  The stand is sturdy once assembled.  Mine came with the rubber isolation piece and all of the hardware necessary.

The monitor came with a non-US power cord.  Luckily it uses the standard PC/Monitor PS cord (I am not sure what the connector is called) and I had an extra laying around.  Another oversight.

The machine seems to be put together well and it did boot up and run.  The nozzles all seem to both blow and suck correctly (I am on 110V and TheSteve had mentioned that his machine did not blow correctly out of the box).   I loaded up one reel of 0805 resistors and a stick of MCUs in the vibratory feeder to give it a go at 1:30 AM (usually a bad idea).  I had watched the instruction videos several times before receiving the machine, but I was still lost at a couple of steps.  I was able to get it to pick and place a few of the 0805 resistors successfully from the reel feeder before I went to bed, so it's off to at least a decent start.   

The machine seems like it moves way too fast on 100%, but I could be wrong.  Placement speed is also super fast (without paste the parts go flying sometimes!)  I still have a lot to learn about the UI and the quirks of the machine but I'll try report back here as I get some more experience with it.

Did you see any evidence of the xp being genuine.   This is really quite disconcerting that they might be shipping bogus copies of windows?

[Jefferson]

I agree here. Today need W10, W7 wouldn't want to. Maybe they have problems with the periphery, not all drivers completed yet at W10.

[mrpackethead]

Maybe things are getting better with the SmallSMT brand. All I know is I got hosed somewhere in the middle.

I'm sorry if i've come across this the wrong way, but having re-read your posts yet again, I still feel like you think that Micheal and his company SmallSMT have some resposnbility for what happened with your  OurSMT based machine. .   Sunny the sales person has moved from one company to another,  thats quite normal, and i'd guess she had no ability or authority to fix your problem...

To set the record really clear, do you, or do you not think SmallSMT has any responbility for your problem with your SMT50?

A. Yes
B. No.

[MTNELECTRONICS]

Did you see any evidence of the xp being genuine.   This is really quite disconcerting that they might be shipping bogus copies of windows?

I think we should just ask NeoDen what is going on with it and then see if their answer holds up instead of speculating.  It seems like it would be a foolish thing to do, but then again the general Chinese business culture is a bit different than what most of us are used to dealing with. 

[mrpackethead]

Did you see any evidence of the xp being genuine.   This is really quite disconcerting that they might be shipping bogus copies of windows?

I think we should just ask NeoDen what is going on with it and then see if their answer holds up instead of speculating.  It seems like it would be a foolish thing to do, but then again the general Chinese business culture is a bit different than what most of us are used to dealing with.

IN deed. Neoden are you listening?

[TheSteve]

Obviously having properly licensed software is important but the version of the OS is totally irrelevant in this case as its designed so you don't see or interact with it at all.

@MTNELECTRONICS - the Z axis really fires those parts home by default! I recommend slowing everything down to start with, the defaults are pretty aggressive and possibly unrealistic.
It is nice you received all of the parts, sucks about the holes not being threaded properly.
My first impression of the machine is still that it is very "cute" - it just seems so small compared to all of the other machines I have had exposure to.

When you get a chance can you possibly post the pressure numbers you get for the "suck" and blow" tests(with the nozzles blocked of course).

You will want to turn the brightness down to 70% or so for the upward facing camera.

[ttsthermaltech]

At no point did I say that SmallSMT was at fault. Nor will I say that now. I did not buy from them.

However, I bought a machine from Sunny (HotHotSMT) which sold me a machine made by Yushengtech. Both Sunny / Yushengtech would not stand behind the product that they sold me. Take a look at the Yushengtech website (www.yushengtech.com) and you will find the exact machine that SmallSMT is offering.

Also, as said, Sunny now is working with SmallSMT. Maybe Michael runs his company differently. In all honesty, every time I talked to him he tried to be helpful. Michael got thrown into this as HotHotSMT / Yushengtech forwarded me to Michael for tech support when the machine did not operate correctly. So it becomes a endless circle.

But right now, to me, the only difference is that Yushengtech is hiding their sales behind another company name.

If Michael comes out and says that he buys the hardware from Yushengtech, and does all the controls and software development in Germany, then I will leave this topic alone. But if Yushengtech is doing both the hardware and software in China, then it is hard to say that they didn't leave me (and likely others) out in the cold.

In reality, they could have easily offered an upgrade to existing customers, but they didn't even consider making their new controls / software backward compatible. They (Yushengtech / HotHotSMT) just stopped answering emails.

Anyhow we will see how this plays out.

Rob.

Maybe things are getting better with the SmallSMT brand. All I know is I got hosed somewhere in the middle.

I'm sorry if i've come across this the wrong way, but having re-read your posts yet again, I still feel like you think that Micheal and his company SmallSMT have some resposnbility for what happened with your  OurSMT based machine. .   Sunny the sales person has moved from one company to another,  thats quite normal, and i'd guess she had no ability or authority to fix your problem...

To set the record really clear, do you, or do you not think SmallSMT has any responbility for your problem with your SMT50?

A. Yes
B. No.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Obviously having properly licensed software is important but the version of the OS is totally irrelevant in this case as its designed so you don't see or interact with it at all.

..until you plug it into a network...

[mrpackethead]

THankyou for clarifiying.    Your original post was very unclear.   

At no point did I say that SmallSMT was at fault. Nor will I say that now. I did not buy from them.

This is what you originally posted.

I noticed a few people mentioned the SmallSMT machine. They are a evolving rebrand of a machine made by Yushengtech in China. In any case, Yushengtech / HotHotSMT / SmallSMT are the same company / people.

A new individual has come on board, his name is Michael, and he is a very intelligent individual. However the machine maker he works with are not so reputable.

[mrpackethead]

Obviously having properly licensed software is important but the version of the OS is totally irrelevant in this case as its designed so you don't see or interact with it at all.

..until you plug it into a network...

worm, virus.. bsod. gah.

[TheSteve]

Obviously having properly licensed software is important but the version of the OS is totally irrelevant in this case as its designed so you don't see or interact with it at all.

..until you plug it into a network...

Well if it had a network port that would be easier.

OK, there is one internally in the machine but its clearly not intended to be used. The PC is fully embedded, externally there are 4 USB ports and a VGA output, that is it.

The neoden software lets you install updates and read/write CSV files, that is it. They have no true file manager, you can't even rename a file.