Author Topic: Neoden 4 pick and place  (Read 275753 times)

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Offline luiHS

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1425 on: January 09, 2019, 10:28:01 pm »
 

Yesterday I tried some new custom nozzles that I ordered, very short, to put 10mm high capacitors, and it has worked very well for me. It requires a bit of study, design the PCB properly and order the positioning of the components, all to avoid collisions between high components, even other nozzles with high components already positioned on the PCB, because the Z axis only moves 10mm.

I thought I would have problems and it would not be possible, but no, it worked for me, I'm very happy. I already have several PCB that now with these very short nozzles, I can mount 100% of the components with the Neoden4.

I just need to try to add a 0.5kg weight to the 24mm feeder peeler to see if I solve the problem of peeling the tape, and all my problems will be solved. It is hard to start this machine, that everything works well and can put all or almost all the components, but it seems that in the end the problems are solved.

The great design error of this machine, is that the Z axis only moves 10mm, if it moved 15mm, the machine would be perfect and could put all kinds of components without problems. Also some feeders are very badly designed, the peeler of the 24mm feeders has very little strength, and the 16mm feeder has a hole for the outlet of the tape too narrow that prevents using some components.

Some small bugs in the program should also be solved, and one that is quite serious, although it has a solution, is the misalignment of fine pitch chips (LQFP100, LQFP144, etc...), when the nozzle has to rotate them to position them on the PCB.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 10:40:14 pm by luiHS »
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1426 on: January 10, 2019, 06:06:11 am »
where'd you order the nozzles?
 

Offline luiHS

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1427 on: January 12, 2019, 03:47:36 pm »
where'd you order the nozzles?

Neoden made them for me, also the custom IC trays.

Offline charliex

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1428 on: January 13, 2019, 06:22:33 am »
ahh ok, i'm going to order some off aliexpress and mod them
 

Offline girts

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1429 on: January 14, 2019, 05:37:13 am »
ahh ok, i'm going to order some off aliexpress and mod them
You have ideas how to proceed with ceramics?
 

Offline luiHS

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1430 on: January 14, 2019, 10:48:07 am »
 
I solved the problem with the XL4015 component on a reel, in a 24mm feeder, I put a 0.5kg weight on the tape and it peels perfectly.

I still have problems placing a micro SD card socket, placed in a 24mm feeder, with the component in a reel. This same component put on the IC Tray, the machine picks and places it perfectly.

As seen in the video, when it is on a reel, the nozzle loses the component. I suspect again of a bad design of the 24mm feeder, the hole through which the nozzle picks the component is too narrow. This SD card socket has 4 small metal tabs, 2 on each side, I think they rub against the sides of the hole and that's why the nozzle loses the component. The only solution I see is to make that feeder part, customized, with which the hole was 2 mm wider, I think the component would pass without problems and the problem would be solved. I have asked Neoden to make that modification and send me the customized piece to replace it, I do not think it costs much, they just have to file the sides to make the hole wider.





« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 11:44:39 am by luiHS »
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1431 on: January 14, 2019, 11:36:27 am »
Yup, if the component scrapes against the side of the pocket, it doesn't take much of a touch to break the vacuum and have it drop the part.  I've had to file the cover blade on a few of my Philips feeders so that some of the largest parts don't touch parts of the feeder on the way out of the pocket.

Jon
 

Offline luiHS

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1432 on: January 14, 2019, 04:12:26 pm »
 
It has taken me a while to convince Neoden, but finally they are going to make me some custom pieces for the 24mm feeders, with the hole 4mm wider, so I can use the micro SD sockets that I have. These are not for free, but are not expensive.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 06:29:59 am by luiHS »
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1433 on: January 15, 2019, 06:00:06 am »
ahh ok, i'm going to order some off aliexpress and mod them
You have ideas how to proceed with ceramics?

grinder attachment
 

Online Styno

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1434 on: January 15, 2019, 07:46:48 am »
Yup, if the component scrapes against the side of the pocket, it doesn't take much of a touch to break the vacuum and have it drop the part.  I've had to file the cover blade on a few of my Philips feeders so that some of the largest parts don't touch parts of the feeder on the way out of the pocket.

Jon
When using the biggest nozzle on my machine I really have to pull the get the component off the nozzle, and does so with an audible *plop*.

Is this the difference between a light vacuum pump (Neoden) and 6 bar vacuum venturi or difference in nozzle design? Perhaps the head does not stay down long enough to build a good vacuum before lifting the component, can this be confgured in the Neoden software (with the 20 year old Dima software you can)?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 07:52:52 am by Styno »
 

Offline luiHS

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1435 on: January 15, 2019, 09:00:01 am »
Perhaps the head does not stay down long enough to build a good vacuum before lifting the component, can this be confgured in the Neoden software (with the 20 year old Dima software you can)?


Neoden4 allows you to configure two delays, one after Picks the component and another after Placing the component. For sensitive components such as fine pitch chips, I set both delays to 300, and for the rest of the components to 100. This is fine for positioning components accurately, without affecting the vibrations of the motors.

I also recently discovered that the Peeler can be configured, with values for the Feed Speed, regardless of the Feeding Speed of the Feeder. My machine, installed at the factory, a 24 mm feeder, which was set at a Peeler feed speed of 48, and the feed rate of the Feeder to 16 for Crystal components. When I added a new 24 mm feeder, I only set the Feed Speed for the Feeder and the value for Peeler was by default at a low value, I think at 16, maybe that's why it did not peel the tape correctly  Although now it is corrected by adding a weight of 0.5kg, I also changed this value to 48, maybe the error was corrected by the configuration change and not by the weight, or both helped. I want to try to remove the weight, and leave only the Peeler Feeding Speed to 48, maybe that's enough.

Offline charliex

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Re: Neoden 4 pick and place
« Reply #1436 on: January 15, 2019, 01:07:17 pm »
yeah wrong torque setting will definitely fail to peel, its sensitive
 


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