Electronics > Manufacturing & Assembly

Neoden YY1 issues

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Michael_N:
Hi,
I have now had the YY1 for some months now. Am I the only one who is really challenged by the feeders? The mechanism for peeling the tape is so unreliable... it is almost hard to find the words to explain how bad it is.
Just the fact that you potentionally for each project have to adjust the peeling force is one thing... a bad thing. But the peeling force varies over the day so I find myself adjusting the peelers more than I actually produce.

What is your experince with it and have anyone thought of a mod to make the peelers work?

-
Michael

newto:
There's some discussion over in this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/neoden-yy1-pick-and-place-machine-with-under-$3k-price-for-hobbiestlow-vol-usag/

One thing I've noticed a lot is that if you leave it for a few hours or days, the rubber will start to stick to the rod. Turning the wheel in reverse a small amount will "break" the extra friction, and let the unit run better. I've also noticed that some positions work better than others for tricky tapes. Thin plastic tapes seem to cause me the most grief, but I improved the reliability a lot by moving them to a position close to the motor, they were getting pulled a lot by the peeler when they were at the very front.

At the end of the day, it's a machine that works best when setup, and the let run on one design, or sets of designs that share components. Are you adjusting both the wheels, and the tension bar in the feeder?

jmelson:
Well, a few years ago I had a Philips CSM84 (made by Yamaha) with mechanical feeders that were advanced by an air cylinder on the head.  The biggest problem with those feeders was cover tape pull mechanism.  In general, it was too weak, but it was worst on 0.1 uF 0805 caps. I eventually found that the cover tape glue was VERY irregular.  one foot of tape would come off almost if you shook the tape hard, the next foot would be glued so strongly that it would rip the paper tape apart.  A fix I used was to put a C clamp on the empty component tape coming out the back of the feeder to give it some extra pull.  I upgraded to a Quad QSA30A (made by Samsung) machine to get better placement accuracy.  But the Quad feeders are "electronic" with motors in them, and have MUCH stronger pull on the cover tape.  I occasionally have other issues with these feeders, but they do seem to work better than the Yamaha style ones.  I'm not sure this helps you much, but even the high-end machines had some peel issues.  (My 2 machines were both over $100K new.)
Jon

Michael_N:
I have followed the other thread and its quite interesting. There just not so much talk about the peeling issues.

I'm also aware of the problem with the peeling wheels sticking after it has been sitting. Each morning I roll them by hand just to make them "break free"
I just got really frustrated last week, spening so much time on adjusting the feeders... it's really not a good design, and it should never have been released.

I have also tried to adjust the tension spring below the tape... but it does not solve all problems.

I also have a Neoden3V, that machine has a different peeling system. It does not rely on friction and it only peels the reel that is avanced. It is a much better machine overall. For me it has been a machine I just start and "almost" walk-a-way from.
Sometimes a reel can act up and make problems. But I would say the machine is pretty solid.
I is sad that they haven't used the same peeling system on the YY1. 

tomgat:
I dont have a YY1, but used to have the exact same issue on my Charmhigh CHMT36VB (ie. a less functional NeoDen YY1).  I was constantly adjusting the film wheel on individual components.  I guess what I am saying is that I feel your pain as it was extremely frustrating.  I still ran hundreds of boards on that little machine, though.  It would get the job done, but was a full-time job just managing its quirks.  Im guessing the YY1 is similar.

The film peeling issue was the sole reason why I finally took the plunge and upgraded to a larger cheap chinese PNP machine that uses Yamaha feeders, and I have never looked back.  If you are doing more than a couple boards, real feeders are an extremely nice feature to have, and saves an enormous amount of time loading/unloading even when doing small quantities.

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