New PCB Service from Digikey - DKRed

[purfield]

Just got an email from DigiKey advertising their new PCB service called DKRed.  Looks pretty similar to OSHPark.

https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred?utm_medium=email&utm_source=adh&utm_campaign=87682_ADH2103A&utm_content=learnmore_US&utm_cid=12745578&mkt_tok=MTQ0LU5DQi0wMzAAAAF8Ir_xLEHFteBfl9FynQybkN_UzUeGpAA5gGV_cP2nQ_m_fsaxL9dQYZw53ZmzJtR9CGAwZiy8FhLYd6ESCn08wZwQl2s8OMbroWigKpJMz12LBI8

edit: after looking a bit closer, the $6 per square inch price is per piece with a minimum order of 4 pieces, so it's actually quite a bit more expensive than OSHPark...

[jrs45]

Yes, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages over the low-cost China manufacturers (they probably send it over there anyway).  10 day turn is pretty slow, easily comparable to JLC, etc.

It might be more interesting if DK did full assembly + PCB making, maybe they will in the future.  Certainly a good way to piss off a lot of their assembly customers though.

[phil from seattle]

My last JLCPCB turn was 5 days to boards in hand - about $20 for about 12 sq inches. Though 7 days is more typical.

And, at $6/sq in, DKRed is wildly overpriced compared to OSHPark.

DKRed doesn't pass the sniff test.

[dkonigs]

And OSH Park isn't known for being cheap (or fast) either.

I used to use them for everything, but now that I want to do things like 4-layer boards (do avoid a power routing mess) I can't justify them anymore. JLCPCB is so much cheaper, even if I check all their "fancy" options to mostly match the results. And I don't have to file mousebites off the edges of all the boards either.

[bd139]

Soldermask and edge cuts (mousebites) are shitty on OSHpark as well. Only decent thing is ENIG plating.

DKRed is a nope on top of that.

JLC hands down wins still. They cornered the market by actually doing a decent job for a decent price.

[thm_w]

Its $1.50 / sq inch * 4pc = $6 minimum order (1"x1").
10cm x 10cm board 4pc is $93.

OSHPark is $5 per square inch, per set of 3.
10cm x 10cm 3pc = $77.5

I'm not sure how its "wildly overpriced" compared to oshpark.. price is basically the same once you factor in its 4pcs vs 3pc.

Would be nice if you could combine the shipping with your regular Digikey order but didnt look like that was an option (USA only?).

[phil from seattle]

I agree, after reading more closely, wildly is not correct.  However, I rarely need 4 boards.  Frankly, at least half the time, 2 OSHPark boards go unused.

They don't support 4L boards and minimum size in H or W is 1"  (even 25mm gets rejected)   I often have boards that are <1" on one edge.  I will stick with OSHPark for the small stuff.

[Bassman59]

Got the email, saw the price, deleted it.

[Bassman59]

Its $1.50 / sq inch * 4pc = $6 minimum order (1"x1").
10cm x 10cm board 4pc is $93.

OSHPark is $5 per square inch, per set of 3.
10cm x 10cm 3pc = $77.5

I'm not sure how its "wildly overpriced" compared to oshpark.. price is basically the same once you factor in its 4pcs vs 3pc.

Funny, the pricing page says $1.50 per square inch (for two layers) but the press release/email blurb said $6, so who knows. No DKRed "instant quote" prices show up for 4 and 6 layers.

So you get four 2" x 2" boards for $24.
Oshpark charges $5 per sq inch and you get three boards so three 4 sq in boards is $20.

(You gotta bend your brain to figure out which is actually cheaper!)

[phil from seattle]

Its $1.50 / sq inch * 4pc = $6 minimum order (1"x1").
10cm x 10cm board 4pc is $93.

OSHPark is $5 per square inch, per set of 3.
10cm x 10cm 3pc = $77.5

I'm not sure how its "wildly overpriced" compared to oshpark.. price is basically the same once you factor in its 4pcs vs 3pc.

Funny, the pricing page says $1.50 per square inch (for two layers) but the press release/email blurb said $6, so who knows. No DKRed "instant quote" prices show up for 4 and 6 layers.

So you get four 2" x 2" boards for $24.
Oshpark charges $5 per sq inch and you get three boards so three 4 sq in boards is $20.

(You gotta bend your brain to figure out which is actually cheaper!)

Try uploading a set of gerbers.  $6/sqin, 4 boards (thus the $1.50 quote). A bit more expensive than OSHPark though cheaper per board.  No 4L or 6L boards, no Eagle or Kicad uploads, nothing smaller than 1" on edge. A bit too many restrictions for me.  Maybe when they fix those.

[Bassman59]

Try uploading a set of gerbers.  $6/sqin, 4 boards (thus the $1.50 quote). A bit more expensive than OSHPark though cheaper per board.  No 4L or 6L boards, no Eagle or Kicad uploads, nothing smaller than 1" on edge. A bit too many restrictions for me.  Maybe when they fix those.

I don't care about Eagle or Kicad (or any other PCB CAD program) uploads, Gerbers only, please!

[Dave8266]

I agree, after reading more closely, wildly is not correct.  However, I rarely need 4 boards.  Frankly, at least half the time, 2 OSHPark boards go unused.

Same here.  I'm not sure it would help support the panel throughput they need, but I'd happily pay more per square inch for 1 or 2 PCBs from OSH Park instead of 3.  More profit and lower labor for them, less cost and waste for me.


DK Red does appear to support any single-board quantity >=4 though.  So while OSH Park makes you jump from 3, to 6, to 9, etc,  DK Red could produce 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.   That could be considerable savings if you were doing small quantities of larger PCBs.

[phil from seattle]

Good point if you need, say 5 PCBs.  Though, at that point a Chinese fab will probably be cheaper and faster.

[phil from seattle]

Try uploading a set of gerbers.  $6/sqin, 4 boards (thus the $1.50 quote). A bit more expensive than OSHPark though cheaper per board.  No 4L or 6L boards, no Eagle or Kicad uploads, nothing smaller than 1" on edge. A bit too many restrictions for me.  Maybe when they fix those.

I don't care about Eagle or Kicad (or any other PCB CAD program) uploads, Gerbers only, please!

I use gerbers a lot but send Kicad format off to OSHPark because it is simpler. Gerbers buy you nothing for a 1 off PCB.  For someone starting out with PCB design, why make them jump through the Gerber hoop? I bet a large fraction of OSHPark's customers use Kicad or Eagle format. Since DKRed is clearly targeting OSHPark, I am surprised they only support Gerbers.

[mairo]

... they probably send it over there anyway ...

There is "Made in USA" picture down the page the OP posted, so does it mean the boards are made in the USA? The FR4 material as per the datasheet seems Isola brand. If the quality is good and bring more options (more PCB fab options, combined component shipment price (although is probably not next to theirs components warehouse), assembly?) they may have some good business.

[mairo]

Wait! I just went via the online quote calculator and it seems they just outsource to many local fab houses? The same board specs/quantity in PCB Way advanced fab came to USD$360 and the DKred prices from the shown fabs was b/w USD$1160 and $2140 ...

[gnuarm]

Just got an email from DigiKey advertising their new PCB service called DKRed.  Looks pretty similar to OSHPark.

https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred?utm_medium=email&utm_source=adh&utm_campaign=87682_ADH2103A&utm_content=learnmore_US&utm_cid=12745578&mkt_tok=MTQ0LU5DQi0wMzAAAAF8Ir_xLEHFteBfl9FynQybkN_UzUeGpAA5gGV_cP2nQ_m_fsaxL9dQYZw53ZmzJtR9CGAwZiy8FhLYd6ESCn08wZwQl2s8OMbroWigKpJMz12LBI8

edit: after looking a bit closer, the $6 per square inch price is per piece with a minimum order of 4 pieces, so it's actually quite a bit more expensive than OSHPark...

I don't understand.  $6 for 4 boards per sq in is better than $5 for 3 boards unless you only want 1 board.  I don't see how in any case it is "quite a bit" more expensive.  They offer 5/5 track/trace design rules and 8 mil holes, so some BGAs are on the table.

[gnuarm]

Wait! I just went via the online quote calculator and it seems they just outsource to many local fab houses? The same board specs/quantity in PCB Way advanced fab came to USD$360 and the DKred prices from the shown fabs was b/w USD$1160 and $2140 ...

They are showing comparables to highlight how much cheaper they are.  You don't see an order button for any of those do you?

[SilverSolder]

Just got an email from DigiKey advertising their new PCB service called DKRed.  Looks pretty similar to OSHPark.

https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred?utm_medium=email&utm_source=adh&utm_campaign=87682_ADH2103A&utm_content=learnmore_US&utm_cid=12745578&mkt_tok=MTQ0LU5DQi0wMzAAAAF8Ir_xLEHFteBfl9FynQybkN_UzUeGpAA5gGV_cP2nQ_m_fsaxL9dQYZw53ZmzJtR9CGAwZiy8FhLYd6ESCn08wZwQl2s8OMbroWigKpJMz12LBI8

edit: after looking a bit closer, the $6 per square inch price is per piece with a minimum order of 4 pieces, so it's actually quite a bit more expensive than OSHPark...

I don't understand.  $6 for 4 boards per sq in is better than $5 for 3 boards unless you only want 1 board.  I don't see how in any case it is "quite a bit" more expensive.  They offer 5/5 track/trace design rules and 8 mil holes, so some BGAs are on the table.

It seems to me that experimenters perhaps don't need multiple boards so often, so it is wasteful to have to buy 3 (and even worse to have to buy 4).

[M4trix]

Made in 'merica. Well that's something rare to see nowadays. You wanna stop the growing Chinese influence around the globe ? Yes ? Then
support these companies. Especially you who live in 'merica. 

Edit: what I wrote doesn't make sense. The FR-4 material and the soldermask are probably manufactured in China. 

[gnuarm]

Made in 'merica. Well that's something rare to see nowadays. You wanna stop the growing Chinese influence around the globe ? Yes ? Then
support these companies. Especially you who live in 'merica. 

Edit: what I wrote doesn't make sense. The FR-4 material and the soldermask are probably manufactured in China. 

I understand that's where they make air too.  We export all of our CO2 and they turn it into coal and O2 and ship it back to us.  But every ton of coal they ship means a unicorn died powering the process.  But we keep buying that unicorn coal and O2.

[mairo]

Wait! I just went via the online quote calculator and it seems they just outsource to many local fab houses? The same board specs/quantity in PCB Way advanced fab came to USD$360 and the DKred prices from the shown fabs was b/w USD$1160 and $2140 ...

They are showing comparables to highlight how much cheaper they are.  You don't see an order button for any of those do you?

Yes you are correct - the first board dimensions that I tried 136x216/4L did not displayed prices for the DKRed service thats why I got confused. Changing the setup to a 2L gives me a price from DKRed ( for 4 pieces) - DKred @ $275 (no international shipping) compared to $175 (including international shipping) from PCBWay Advanced service.

[tszaboo]

Free shipping included.
Minimum 4 copies to any order.
Individual boards only. No arrays.
No DFM Checks. No Electrical Tests.
Does not qualify for international shipping.

Price similar to Eurocircuits 3 day service.
moving on.

[oPossum]

Wait! I just went via the online quote calculator and it seems they just outsource to many local fab houses? The same board specs/quantity in PCB Way advanced fab came to USD$360 and the DKred prices from the shown fabs was b/w USD$1160 and $2140 ...

They are showing comparables to highlight how much cheaper they are.  You don't see an order button for any of those do you?

Yes, you can order from those other vendors. Digikey's PCB Builder service is front end for all of them and the new DK Red service.

Build your PCB bare board through Digi-Key by uploading Gerber files, comparing different board house offers, and placing orders through secure checkouts.

https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/design-tools/pcb-builder

[oPossum]

A gave DK Red a try with a small BoB that I had just ordered from OSH Park.

OSH Park: Ordered 3/29, Shipped 4/6, Delivered 4/10
DK Red: Ordered 3/30, Shipped 4/3, Delivered 4/5

The silk screen is a bit sharper on the OSH Park boards. Everything else is essentially the same.
Digikey did not provide a tracking number, and the second line of my address was dropped.