Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Shock]

I was waiting to purchase the new MT-200 tweezers when they are released, but at $400(with ISB) is nearly double then what I paid for the entire ADS200 station and TD-200 soldering pen combo. MT-200 is about twice the cost of MT-100. A bit overpriced, in my opinion.

I agree it looks expensive but our actual price with the tequipment.net eevblog 6% discount code $366 and that includes a pair of $44 tips so really the tweezers are about $320 with setback stand. This is calculated on full list price so that may come down a little if they do a sale. As the ADS200 was on an introductory price as well as on sale for two years it exaggerates the difference.

[hrbngr]

Shock and Cliff,

I'm finally getting close to picking up the ADS200 from Tequipment--a little disappointed that I waited for the 2yr sale to stop--but oh well.  I've read every page of this thread since Cliff started it, and had a couple of questions regarding tips, etc.

1.  Is the firmware version pretty settled at this point? I was not looking forward to sending the chip to Aaron for replacement.  It does look like the gasket issue is resolved, at least.

2.  Does it seem like there is a consensus on the standard vs ultra-performance tips? price/performance/value

3. I'm coming from an Edsyn 971 where I only used the chisel tip it came with (and ignored the 5-7 others in the bag) and i've fallen deep into the weeds at times here on the forums reading tip recommendation threads(chisel/bent chisel/miniwave/etc), so if you were buying one as a gift for someone to do basic soldering repairs to small appliances, soldering practice kits to improve skills, etc, would you have a basic set of tips in mind that would do the trick until one was knowledgeable enough or had some specific work that might require a different tip option?

here is my basic list:
-=standard tips=-
0.80mm Chisel
1.2mm Bent Chisel
2.38mm Chisel
3.05mm Miniwave

[Shock]

The firmware 1.4 has been out for some time yes. As far as I'm aware it's still the latest. You don't send your old firmware back, Aaron was just sending out the 1.4 to those on older versions.

Both series of cartridges have the same heater but the ultra performance have more mass over the heater. The more mass a tip has, the shorter the tip is, the greater the contact surface with the target means the better performance it will have. So it's a combination of all those factors.

Some of the tips are only in the one series anyway and it makes sense when you look at the tip sizes. For instance the rework blades are in standard series but do you really need more mass in that situation, probably not. I use mostly the ultra performance tips but if I was doing smd prototyping I'd use the standard.

The tips you have selected are a good start. I would add a large chisel as well, they are useful for soldering and removing heatsinks in repair. Then a knife blade which is multipurpose but good for wick/wiping across pads.

[hrbngr]

Shock,

thanks for the extra tip recommendations.  Have you found the extra mass in the "head" of the ultra perfs getting in the way/obscuring the view at all when working?

oh, on the large chisel, how big is too big???   
(ultra perf parts)
3/16" Chisel (4.78mm) P/N 1131-0054-P1
1/4" Chisel (6.35mm) P/N 1131-0055-P1
9/32" Chisel (7.14mm) P/N 1131-0056-P1
5/16" Chisel (7.95mm) P/N 1131-0057-P1

[Shock]

No doesn't bother me at all. If I was choosing from the large chisels for me the 13/64" (5.15mm) and the 5/16" (7.95mm). The small one is more for size appropriate jobs and the large one is good at one shot desoldering through hole transistors and small caps, eyelets, heat sinks, back of potentiometers.

[Mp3]

I'm gonna butt in here even though  I am not part of this conversation,

1.  Is the firmware version pretty settled at this point? I was not looking forward to sending the chip to Aaron for replacement.  It does look like the gasket issue is resolved, at least.

Mine bought either a few months ago or half a year ago (can't remember) is on 1-4 and i have never had a problem except for the first time auto setback kicked in during the middle of some work. It is not too hard to fix that, but you'll have to check the manual if it's an issue as i don't remember. I never had the gasket issue. i think that's long gone

2.  Does it seem like there is a consensus on the standard vs ultra-performance tips? price/performance/value

Yeah, I have three tips: one standard chisel 3/16,  ultra conical 1/32, and ultra conical 1/128.

While I don't have any problems with the standard chisel, the price difference between the two is negligible so i don't even know why you wouldn't get ultra performance.

I typically switch between the two during tough repair jobs involving desoldering. Being able to swap the tips and reheat so fast rules btw but i wish they gave you a place to set the tips.

3. I'm coming from an Edsyn 971 where I only used the chisel tip it came with (and ignored the 5-7 others in the bag) and i've fallen deep into the weeds at times here on the forums reading tip recommendation threads(chisel/bent chisel/miniwave/etc), so if you were buying one as a gift for someone to do basic soldering repairs to small appliances, soldering practice kits to improve skills, etc, would you have a basic set of tips in mind that would do the trick until one was knowledgeable enough or had some specific work that might require a different tip option?

I asked about the miniwave and got a lot of rave reviews on it. But, for my needs I will simply replace my standard 3/16 chisel with an ultra of the same size when it's time to replace it. I thought  I would start with these three tips and then move on to what else I needed and so far I have not needed. The combination of that size chisel and conical tip have been awesome and amazingly useful for me. The 1/128 only comes out when I am trying to solder wires to surface mount pins or something like that, so it's hardly used.

After nearly equivalent amounts of abuse, the ultra conical looks better. Could just be that it re-tins easier due to its shape. I guess you can take my suggestions with a grain of salt, because I like conical tips a lot and they work great for me as an all-around tip whereas i know a lot of people despise conical. I can't do fine work with a chisel tip to save my life.

For what it's worth, this is the only station i've ever used that allows hot swap of tips (no pun intended) and I do have a jbc clone on the way that can also swap tips while on.

Anyway, what i'm trying to get at is in several months of daily use for all sorts of jobs, i have only found myself wanting my two go-to tips and then the third for special jobs. If you anticipate needing more, go ahead and get more. if you're in the USA, shipping is really reasonable direct from pace.

[Shock]

Mp3 you reminded me to mention that Hrbngr get the "instant setback" version of the station if he wants stand setback/wake detection.

They give you two places to stow hot tips. One is the silicon rubber pad, the other is several tip storage holes on the back of the stand and a slot for the tip tool and more tips on the stand sides (see right photo). The tip tool is the easiest way to swap hot tips.

[hrbngr]

Shock,

Does the station w/ISB stand come w/the tip tool?

I did have this in the "Accessories" order I was thinking of making later:
**TEquipment pricing
P/N 1100-0232-P1 Fiber Cleaning Tool $20.76
P/N 4021-0013-P3 Replacement Sponges  $6.92
P/N 1213-0090-P5 Replacement O-Ring (5pk) $3.95
P/N 1100-0206-P1 Pace Tip Tool  $12.85

If it is not included, is it worth it to move into the order w/the station? Or can I use the silicon rubber pad until then?

Mp3,
for the conical tips, i don't have much experience with them. I had been looking at the bent tip variant:
P/N 1131-0003-P1 1/64" Conical Sharp Bent 30° (0.40mm) *  $13.84
Would an option like that replicate some of uses of the 1/64 straight conical?

[Shock]

Yes the tip tool comes with the complete station so no need to order a second.

I prefer a set of chisels over pointy ones as they have better control and contact with the pcb, In these videos you can see how chisels are really ideal for both smd and through hole pads. In the first video at 1m33s he very slightly changes contact angle of the tip to ensure the melf gets reflowed with a nice fillet. Then use a conical such as the sharp bent for fine work.

[Mp3]

Hey thanks Shock, I had totally forgot the stand had a place for the tips.  Glad I brought it up then! 

Mp3,
for the conical tips, i don't have much experience with them. I had been looking at the bent tip variant:
P/N 1131-0003-P1 1/64" Conical Sharp Bent 30° (0.40mm) *  $13.84
Would an option like that replicate some of uses of the 1/64 straight conical?

Yeah, the only difference really in bent and straight conical comes down to how you like to hold the iron - as far as i'm aware. There are some angles that are really difficult to get without a bent tip and i honestly should get one for that reason.

I think the 1/64 is a good size to go with if you want to have a single conical tip. Even if you don't use them regularly, I find a smaller conical tip like that to be really useful doing repairs on dense boards, as well as cleaning out PCB holes that get filled in during desoldering.

(For what it's worth I have the non - instant setback version and it included both the rubber flap and tweezer style removal tools.)

[Weston]

I was admiring my new ADS200 last night and I realized that the cartridges only have two electrical contacts but the handle cable terminates in four electrical connections which has me confused. I was under the impression that each cartridge contains a thermocouple and a heating element.

Does anyone have any insight to how this works? Shining a light down into the handle seems to show that there are indeed only two electrical contacts. Did I completely miss something? I looked through Dave's review video and went through a good number of the previous comments on this thread but was not able to find any commentary on this.

Does the iron do something weird like put the thermocouple in series with the heater element and switches back and forth between power and sense? Is it actually just a PTC heater element with a calibrated curve?

[Shock]

The red power wire of the heater is supplied by a fet driven fullwave rectifier outputting pulsed DC at half mains frequency. The control circuitry switches that rail with another fet again to provide the regulation. Temp measurements for the software control are taken from the cartridges k type thermocouple in series with the heater. This can be done (if required) while the cartridge is being heated, during the zero point of each pulse.

The blue is ground and the and green goes to chassis/earth. The white I assume is some kind of thermal protection or tip detection and not connected to the cartridge. It looks like a component is connected to it, I've never bothered to check it out.

[dman777]

I recently studied the Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review and I have two questions, please:

1) Did the manufacture ever give a update about the flux being left on the board? Like that won't happen anymore? I don't want to buy one of these and have corrosion on it and a few years later

2) This Pace unit is 120 watts and the JBC in the review was 130w. Should there be that much of a thermal performance difference for just 10 watts? If not, for a 10 watt difference why wasn't the Pace closer in thermal performance as the JDC? Since it is based on wattage.

[Shock]

Since the stations weren't at normal soldering temperature the JBCs performance was exaggerated. It has a different heating profile and clearly was overshooting during recovery at a low temp. The proof of this is if you watch the video carefully it was reading high briefly on the thermometer. JBCs own benchmarks show the same thing at full temp. Once a solder thermal bridge was established it helped it out even more. There is even a member on the forums here that has a Chinese station which solders below melt point, amazing!

So neither station was struggling, just the JBC was running hotter. As that video mentions, Pace deliberately plate there tips to last, compared to JBC prices and considering longevity I think it's a nice saving. The power difference indicated between the two I doubt was even a factor, both stations have very similar heating/recovery speeds.

No idea about the flux, it was only on the hand soldered connectors. I'm sure Pace saw it and would have changed their process if they thought it was necessary. Without knowing the flux being used it could have a beneficial effect on tin whiskers.

[EEVblog]

The firmware 1.4 has been out for some time yes. As far as I'm aware it's still the latest. You don't send your old firmware back, Aaron was just sending out the 1.4 to those on older versions.

I'm still running 1.2 

[Mp3]

Hey Shock (and anyone else) - a quesrtion for anyone with the instant setback stand. Isn't the instant setback switch on that stand a simple microswitch?

If so, i was thinking about rigging up a foot pedal to act as that switch, since i tend to flip the power on and off as i need it, and maybe keeping a little box on the floor is easier than always reaching for the power switch.

I recently studied the Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review and I have two questions, please:

1) Did the manufacture ever give a update about the flux being left on the board? Like that won't happen anymore? I don't want to buy one of these and have corrosion on it and a few years later

2) This Pace unit is 120 watts and the JBC in the review was 130w. Should there be that much of a thermal performance difference for just 10 watts? If not, for a 10 watt difference why wasn't the Pace closer in thermal performance as the JDC? Since it is based on wattage.

my 2 cents
1) I have gear from the 80's that has flux coated boards, and i was horrified when i saw it, but i even  made a thread about it on here once and several people told me i could clean it off if i wanted but it wouldn't likely harm anything. Not saying the pace is definitely protected against that as , since Shock says, there are many kinds of flux out there.

2) I have a clone of that jbc station on the way which some youtube reviewers really like, but from what i seen, and having used my pace very much in the last couple months, i don't think that 10 watt difference is making any real difference.  To address your other point, the pace definitely overshoots when i power it up or switch temperatures on it, so i think it just tends to do that, personally i prefer it to overshoot for a second than sag and catch back up.

[EEVblog]

2) This Pace unit is 120 watts and the JBC in the review was 130w. Should there be that much of a thermal performance difference for just 10 watts? If not, for a 10 watt difference why wasn't the Pace closer in thermal performance as the JDC? Since it is based on wattage.

Not sure what video you are referring to but in my comparison video the JBC did outperform the Pace thermally. I do not know if that's at the expense of temperature recovery overshoot though as some have suggested.
IMO the only way to fairly compare irons for thermal performance is to turn them down a to a minimum temp that will melt on given surface (e.g. copper plane) if they are both the same temp and one melt and the other doesn't then you have a clear winner. Pace took me to task at the time over this comparison, but even when asked they provided no better method for a comparison.
But it's pretty moot under normal soldering conditions. Pace also admitted that the JBC was in a different price bracket so any comparison in that regard was not fair.
Tips and their individual performance also play a huge role. Plus the JBC has 10W more power.

[Shock]

I'm still running 1.2 

Lost the 1.4 they sent you no doubt hehehe. The irony is 1.4 is the firmware you helped inspire.

Dave that low temp test has one large flaw. It will favor the station with the greater overshoot every time unless there is a large power difference. The idle temps might be the same but it doesn't mean they are soldering at that same temp.

[Shock]

Hey Shock (and anyone else) - a quesrtion for anyone with the instant setback stand. Isn't the instant setback switch on that stand a simple microswitch?

If so, i was thinking about rigging up a foot pedal to act as that switch, since i tend to flip the power on and off as i need it, and maybe keeping a little box on the floor is easier than always reaching for the power switch.

It is a simple microswitch. If you scroll back you will see this post here which uses a low cost optical switch. I think the functionality works best though being in the stand itself. More like an automatic on/off switch when you are moving and returning the handpiece (which you have to do anyway). A low power wireless stand switch would work as well.

[Mp3]

TY, i might be overthinking it. Also, I didn't realize anyone still used PLCC ROMs! Lucky Dave gets to swap a ROM 

[Shock]

The entire Pace Intelliheat series is the same as far as I'm aware. When you look at the rest of their products you start to see the reason behind some of the design choices in the ADS200, which looks a bit weird at first until you realize it's a sparsely populated military style layout of some of their multichannel designs.

[dman777]

The proof of this is if you watch the video carefully it was reading high briefly on the thermometer.

I've been trying to study this and find it but I can not. Can you tell me, please, what time mark in the video this happens?

[Shock]

I've been trying to study this and find it but I can not. Can you tell me, please, what time mark in the video this happens?

22m35s:
You can see the JBC when tested on a small thermocouple it's bouncing in pulses to 290C when a set temp of 280C is used. Dave and the JBC both say 280C but the tip temp is not shown while soldering.

23m30s:
You can see the Pace settle up to temp at 280C on the thermometer. He pre loads the Pace tip with solder immediately attempts to solder a joint. The Pace tip is likely gently recovering to 280C. The display confirms this when it goes between 270-280C.

It's important to note despite what Dave indicates the Pace is not working hard, if it was you would see the temp drop low on the station and the LED indicating heating is occurring. It's just keeping the tip regulated and will be somewhere just below 280C trying to gently regulate the last few degrees.

Both stations are doing different things, the Pace is trying to keep an absolute temp and the JBC is putting in larger bursts when it thinks been robbed of a few degrees. What is essentially being tested here is how both soldering stations regulate at an anemic soldering temperature, not maximum power delivery.

In JBCs own charts you can see they regulate the JBC to include an overshoot. This is the difference you are seeing in the video. Pace is regulating an undershoot to temp JBC is overshooting. Two different soldering temps are occurring and the Pace is the more accurate regulating station.

[EEVblog]

Dave that low temp test has one large flaw. It will favor the station with the greater overshoot every time unless there is a large power difference. The idle temps might be the same but it doesn't mean they are soldering at that same temp.

Of course it will if a product overshoots. But that will be true regardless of the temperature used, so that argument is kinda moot.
And no one has come up with a better way to practically show the difference, short of welding a thermocouple to the tip.
In this case the JBC has 10W more power, so all things being equal you would expect it to perform slightly better than the pace.

[floobydust]

Thermocouples? I don't know why people are sticking to antique methods.
A thermal imaging camera is the way to do it.