Author Topic: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200  (Read 105474 times)

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Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2018, 04:00:43 am »
I'm planning a US$150 station shootout, sadly this one at US$250 is a tad outside that.

That would be awesome.   I have $800 stations on my workbenches in the lab. Thats fine. we make stuff htat earns money. and some of its specialist.    But i'm constantly being asked by people what to buy.     

I really love my Hakko FX951.. as my 'go-to' iron.

I'm also highly interested in the shootout... been looking for a newer station for myself.. been using a plain old analog weller for years.. cant complain, gets the job done... maybe not as fast or controlled as a hakko or jbc but its good enough.. enough so not to motivate me to get one of the newer style stations as shown by Dave in his other reviews less its a knockoff maybe...  I dont really trust knockoff stuff though to anything power delivery related....  just see fake apple chargers
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2018, 10:38:22 pm »
Hi EEVbloggers!

This is Aaron from PACE Worldwide, here to answer your questions about the new ADS200 AccuDrive Soldering Station (finally)! Sorry it’s taken this long, but I don’t get online as much as I should. I’ll try to answer some of the questions I’ve seen in this thread. Please feel free to comment.

Status of ADS200 Production: we’re in very limited production of the station right now because of a shortage of key parts, so you probably won’t see high quantities of the ADS200 in the US until early April, and about 3 weeks later for Europe (we ship from our North Carolina factory to our UK office).

Evaluation Units: We will be shipping evaluation units to both Cliff Matthews and Dave within the next few weeks. We wanted to ship them this week, but parts issues on both station and tips have caused a delay ... sigh. :-[

Direct Orders from paceworldwide.com: We intend to have a new page up with the capability to order via paypal or credit card live by next week, but we’ve been holding off due to the parts shortage. Not a good idea to sell something online that you can't immediately ship. In the meantime, you can view features and video on our www.paceworldwide.com/ads200, but this site is external to paceworldwide.com so it will not have the capability to order.

Pricing: The $239 price (£199 in UK/€225 in EU) is the final list price … this “introductory price” is a bit of a marketing thing, but the price is not likely to go up or down in the near future. Note that PACE does not control what an authorized distributor can sell the unit for, so you are likely to see fluctuations (up or down) depending on the distributor. I doubt you’ll see anything close to $199 in the US, since distributors are likely to take a loss at that price.

No Stain Relief on the TD-200 Handpiece: Our strain relief is internal to the handpiece, a tried and true design on most of our soldering irons for the past 20 years, and we’ve never had issues with the cords wearing out or failing. Now handpiece breakage is another thing, and it’s one of the reasons we have switched to an all-metal handle design. Unlike the older (and more brittle) ESD-safe plastic we used on the previous TD-100 handles, the new TD-200 is that ships with the ADS200 is practically impossible to break. In addition, the aluminum keeps the handpiece cool at any temperature, even in extended use situations (our previous TD-100 handle could get really HOT).

Mini-Tweezers: I showed one of the prototypes to ransonjd (EEVblog member who mentioned that he soldered the pennies together at the APEX Show), and this handpiece will become available in mid-Summer. It will be compatible with the ADS200 only, not previous PACE soldering stations (ST 50, WJS 100, etc). We have a ton of tooling on this handpiece, and some of the longer lead-time items will take up to 3 months to receive after final design.

Instant SetBack (ISB) Tool Stand: All versions of the ADS200 will have a port on the back panel (which can be seen in ransonjd’s images of the back panel that he that photographed at the Apex Show) that allows for the addition of an optional ISB Tool Stand, which automatically drops the temperature of the tips below solder melt so that they don’t oxidize (and thus last up to 5x longer). There are also other part numbers for the ADS200 (PN 8007-0579 for 120 VAC; PN 8007-0580 for 230 VAC) that include the ISB Tool Stand as part of the package. Sorry, no price on those units yet as we are still waiting for critical parts to be priced and received. The ISB Tool Stand versions should be available by late April.

All ADS200 feature SetBack and AutoOff, which is built into the power supply: the standard ADS200 features software driven Setback and AutoOff features that can be programmed from the power supply Programming Menu, so you may not even need an ISB Tool Stand. The default setting is the unit will automatically “set back” the temperature to 350°F after 30 minutes of inactivity, then shut off the power to the TD-200 Handpiece 60 minutes after it goes into SetBack. 

Software Features of the ADS200: The ADS200 has all the features of previous PACE models, and is NOT a stripped-down version of previous soldering systems. We’re just not making the amount of margin that we were on previous models!

Does the ADS200 come with Tips? No. Like most Hakko and Metcal products, we do not include tips. I know it’s inconvenient, but adding a tip adds $10 to the list price, and this is a price sensitive market so we wanted to make the list price as low as we could. Also, we have found that it’s best to have the customer decide exactly which tips he/she wants, as opposed to arbitrarily adding a tip that they won’t use. I know this will probably cause some consternation among EEVbloggers here, but sticker shock for soldering stations is a very real issue for us, so we want to keep the price as low as is possible.
 
AccuDrive Vs. IntelliHeat: AccuDrive is our new, highly accurate and more powerful temperature control system. labjr was closer to the truth when he said the “increased the wattage of the system to 120w maximum output, they had to use a different system of tips with heating elements of lower resistance.” To make a long story short, we were forced to change to AccuDrive as it allows us up to 120 Watts of power (improving performance) and uses a much more accurate (hence “AccuDrive”, about 5°F accuracy compared to IntelliHeat’s 12-15°F accuracy) temperature sensors. Unfortunately, our venerable Engineers could not come up with a way to make AccuDrive compatible with previous models. OMG another PACE connector? Yep (sorry).

Is ADS200 designed for the hobbyist? Not really, but we know the price point will be attractive to the hobbyist, more so than previous models. Dyaxxis mentioned his theory that AccuDrive “reduced the possible complexity costs associated with IntelliHeat” but this is not the case … the ADS200 has about 85% parts commonality with the previous WJS 100 and ST 50 units, but actually ends up costing PACE more! The difference is that management would like to sell more stations and make more of the money on Tips and consumables rather than make higher dollars on the front-end sale. Make sense?

To download a copy of our ADS200 Brochure go to https://www.paceworldwide.com/sites/default/files/ADS200_6pg_Brochure_FINAL.pdf. If you'd like to view our ADS200 YouTube video, go to . Also, you might want to take a look at the ADS200 Quick Start Manual, which will give you an idea as to what to expect when you open the box: www.paceworldwide.com/sites/default/files/ADS200_QuickStart_Manual_3-Mar-2018.pdf.

I’d be glad to answer any other questions you have. Please feel free to comment below!

Best,

Aaron from PACE
 
 
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Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2018, 10:47:26 pm »
Wow, great info. Thanks!
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2018, 10:48:24 pm »
Available in March should be changed to Not Available in March.  ::)
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2018, 11:07:31 pm »
Hi Aaron,

Welcome! And thanks for wading into the forum here. Very informative reply.

I'm wondering if you have a ballpark estimate how long it takes to heat from cold to full temperature, say with a standard chisel tip?

I'm also wondering how well the built-in software setback works? How long does it take to wake when you remove the iron from the stand? Does it detect a thermal load instantly?

Thanks again, Hopefully we'll see more of your here.

     
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2018, 11:41:17 pm »
Hey there labjr,

All Tip Heater Cartridges for the ADS200 take from 3-10 seconds to heat up from cold start, depending on the how massive the tip is. So they are very fast heat-up. A standard chisel tip should only take 4 seconds to heat up. If you're using a SetBack Tool Stand, the tip is already heated to at least 350°F so they only take 1-2 seconds max to reheat.

The built-in Setback works like this: If you have the Setback Timer set for 60 minutes, the system senses that the unit is not in use and starts a clock timer that lowers the temperature after it senses no thermal load or activity for 60 minutes. It will react and reset the timer if it senses more than 10° or 15°F variance. For example, if you touch the sponge it drops the temp significantly and resets the timer to 60 minutes again. If you have a fan or air conditioner blowing directly on the TD-200 Iron, it will never go into SetBack. By the way, I usually set up the internal SetBack to 90 minutes as I don't want the unit to go into the idle mode when I go to lunch. I much prefer the ISB Tool Stand as it goes into SetBack within 15 seconds, saving tip life (especially required for lead-free soldering, which is highly corrosive to iron plating on tips). I'm pretty sure you exit SetBack by pushing the Up or Down scroll keys on the front panel or by turning the unit off and then back on.

The unit detects thermal loads very quickly, but this depends upon the shape and mass of the tip. Generally, lower mass tips detect a load faster than the high-mass tips, but both are still sensing temperature change within 1 second.

Hope this helps,

Aaron
 
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #81 on: March 22, 2018, 11:42:46 pm »
So heating performance on par with a Metcal - not bad for under half the price.
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #82 on: March 22, 2018, 11:50:08 pm »
It's closest to the performance of a Metcal or Hakko FX951 and even beats them both in many situations. It's also close to the performance of a JBC, but JBC will beat us with some of their larger tips. The trade-off is: do you want to pay $36 a tip and $600 for soldering station, when an ADS200 will perform just as well for 98% of your applications? Well, for $11 and $12 per tip, I think PACE has a much more reasonable deal!
 
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #83 on: March 22, 2018, 11:53:31 pm »
Well, personally I don't mind the $20-22 a tip when I already have the Metcal, but if I were looking at stations to buy right now.. Let's just say the ADS200 would be very high on my list subject to local stockists. And I'm a hobbyist! (spoilt by performant stations)

So as we haven't had a teardown yet that I know of.. Are these traditional AC heater stations with a big iron-core transformer?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 11:56:22 pm by Monkeh »
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #84 on: March 22, 2018, 11:57:25 pm »
I've always been rather frugal and try to be resourceful. However, I may wait to see what the price difference is for the ISB stand.

Thanks!
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2018, 12:00:45 am »
I'm hoping they price the ADS200 station with ISB Tool Stand at $270 US, but it's not up to me ...

Aaron
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2018, 12:09:32 am »
Well, many hobbyists are also professional EEs, so I see no reason to exclude us from your audience.
As a hobbyist, I have a Metcal and I just ordered a JBC NASE today. A third 120W high power station is tempting, though I probably have spent too much on toys this month.

OT, but if you happen to have a demo unit, I would like to have a test drive and make a review video, here's my channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrYFeguyZcUcQIfr7aCn0UA
I might even consider ordering one in the future. I live in Raleigh, so picking up should not be an issue.
 

Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #87 on: March 23, 2018, 12:57:31 am »
Hi Aaron,

Thanks for getting on the board.

I have a question on the tips do you expect to have others available later down the line? If so when?

When the Mini-Tweezers are released will there be a (ISB) tool stand for it? If so that would make the purchasing decision easier for me as I could purchase the Mini-Tweezer and (ISB) Tool stand and then purchase a second station when the ISB kits are available.

Also, if can provide the pin out for the ISB on the station that would be great I might just make something up to get be by until the stands are available.

If not, I can contact Tony in tech support tomorrow.

Thanks,
Dean 
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #88 on: March 23, 2018, 02:20:28 am »
Hi Aaron,

Thanks for getting on the board.

I have a question on the tips do you expect to have others available later down the line? If so when?

When the Mini-Tweezers are released will there be a (ISB) tool stand for it? If so that would make the purchasing decision easier for me as I could purchase the Mini-Tweezer and (ISB) Tool stand and then purchase a second station when the ISB kits are available.

Also, if can provide the pin out for the ISB on the station that would be great I might just make something up to get be by until the stands are available.

If not, I can contact Tony in tech support tomorrow.

Thanks,
Dean

I imagine the ISB pinout is the same as the other Pace stations. Maybe Aaron can confirm this. If the difference turns out to be $30, I'll probably wait for it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/pace-set-back-controls/
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #89 on: March 23, 2018, 02:32:45 am »
Great Info!  I just added this to my shortlist
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #90 on: March 23, 2018, 03:14:36 am »

Status of ADS200 Production: we’re in very limited production of the station right now because of a shortage of key parts, so you probably won’t see high quantities of the ADS200 in the US until early April, and about 3 weeks later for Europe (we ship from our North Carolina factory to our UK office).

I know Canada is just America's hat, but are Canadian orders on the same time-frame as the US? I already donated one of my Hakko 936s and pre-ordered a 200 here in Montreal.
 

Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #91 on: March 23, 2018, 03:24:30 am »
Ok pulled the trigger on the Pace and 16 tips should be here next week or the 2nd of April.

TEquipment has 30 of them being delivered on the 3/27/18 not sure on the tips but I order enough that I should get at least a few when it ships.

I was going back a forth on this or a Hakko and decide to give Pace a go. The last Pace I had was a ST-45 with a PS-90 Handpiece.

I currently have a JBC Dual station with de-soldering and soldering but I needed another soldering station and just did not want to spend the Money on the JBC don’t get me wrong it’s an excellent system, but I just don’t think the tips stay wet enough.

So, for just shy of $400 I have a new station and 16 tips.  :-DD

I will update once I receive the unit…..

Now back to the repairs so I can pay for my new toy if the weekend goes well I should have it paid for before it get here.  :-+
 
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Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #92 on: March 23, 2018, 03:39:43 am »
Just a side note this is why it cost so much for JBC.

I ordered some filters for the de-soldering hand piece and I ordered them direct because of the free shipping and the total order was only $27.00. I could not find the filters at any of the dealers and even if they had them it would have cost more for the shipping then the items.  :-DD

Check out the tracking info. They Shipped it from SPAIN because the did not have them stock in the US. It’s a consumable how can they not have them   :palm: :palm:

Quote
LIVONIA,  MI,  US   03/15/2018   2:48 P.M.   Delivered
03/15/2018   8:55 A.M.   Out For Delivery Today
03/15/2018   7:30 A.M.   Destination Scan
03/15/2018   6:30 A.M.   Arrival Scan Romulus,  MI,  United States   03/15/2018   5:57 A.M.   Departure Scan
03/15/2018   5:17 A.M.   Arrival Scan Rockford,  IL,  United States   03/15/2018   3:27 A.M.   Departure Scan
Rockford,  IL,  United States   03/14/2018   11:33 P.M.   Arrival Scan
Philadelphia,  PA,  United States   03/14/2018   10:29 P.M.   Departure Scan
03/14/2018   11:00 A.M.   Import Scan
03/14/2018   10:32 A.M.   Warehouse Scan
03/13/2018   5:52 P.M.   Your package was released by the customs agency.
03/13/2018   5:48 P.M.   The shipment value is missing from the invoice and is required for clearance. We're working to obtain this information. / Brokerage released the package. It will be processed through a clearing agency before final release to UPS.
Philadelphia,  PA,  United States   03/13/2018   4:51 P.M.   Warehouse Scan
03/13/2018   8:49 A.M.   Arrival Scan
03/13/2018   6:59 A.M.   The shipment value is missing from the invoice and is required for clearance. We're working to obtain this information.
Koeln,  Germany   03/13/2018   6:00 A.M.   Departure Scan
03/13/2018   12:31 A.M.   Arrival Scan
de Llobreg,  Spain   03/12/2018   10:36 P.M.   Departure Scan
03/12/2018   10:00 P.M.   Arrival Scan
Barcelona,  Spain   03/12/2018   9:40 P.M.   Departure Scan
03/12/2018   9:19 P.M.   Origin Scan
03/12/2018   9:00 P.M.   Your package was released by the customs agency.
03/12/2018   2:11 P.M.   Your package is being reviewed by the customs agency.
03/12/2018   6:32 P.M.   Your package was released by the customs agency.
Spain   03/12/2018   2:02 P.M.   Order Processed: Ready for UPS
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #93 on: March 23, 2018, 04:31:23 am »
Does anyone know if the tip of the iron would be at the same potential as the logic level ground at the ISB port in the back?  If so, that would seem to make it simple to trigger the instant setback.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 01:16:03 pm by labjr »
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #94 on: March 23, 2018, 10:15:45 am »


I have a question on the tips do you expect to have others available later down the line? If so when?

When the Mini-Tweezers are released will there be a (ISB) tool stand for it? If so that would make the purchasing decision easier for me as I could purchase the Mini-Tweezer and (ISB) Tool stand and then purchase a second station when the ISB kits are available.

Also, if can provide the pin out for the ISB on the station that would be great I might just make something up to get be by until the stands are available.

If not, I can contact Tony in tech support tomorrow.

Thanks,
Dean


Hi Dean,

Tip variety will grow as time goes on. The tips are a close match to the original Tip-Heater Cartridges designed for the TD-100 (the Soldering Iron used in the ST-series of stations and WJS 100) except the sensors and heating element wires are different. But the iron-plated tip ends are the same. So we can easily add older style tip geometries if the customer demand is there. For example, if we get a request for one SOIC-16 Removal Tip for the new TD-200 Iron, we can fabricate the tip using the existing iron-plated tip end along with the newer sensor & wire. But we probably won't add a new tip until we see that there is a decent demand for more than one piece or one request - you wouldn't believe the amount of time, paperwork and number of engineering drawings that is generated for a new saleable SKU, despite the fact that we have all the materials!

Concerning the MiniTweezer handpiece, there will be an ISB Tool Stand for the handpiece, but probably not until 3 months after MiniTweez introduction. I know Engineering is working on it, but I have yet to see anything.

I'm pretty sure the pin-out for the ISB connector on the back panel of the ADS200 is the same as our previous models (ST 30, ST 50, ST 70, WJS 100) but they are using a different technique to detect whether a handpiece is in the Tool Stand. You might want to call Tony as he's a lot more technical than I!

Aaron
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #95 on: March 23, 2018, 10:21:02 am »

I imagine the ISB pinout is the same as the other Pace stations. Maybe Aaron can confirm this. If the difference turns out to be $30, I'll probably wait for it.


Yes, I'm pretty sure the pin-out is the same. I'll check and get back with you.

Aaron
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2018, 10:27:24 am »
Does anyone know of the tip of the iron would be at the same potential as the logic level ground at the ISB port in the back?  If so, that would seem to make it simple to trigger the instant setback.

Our Engineers decided upon an electromechanical switch on the left side of the Tool Stand holster to trigger the SetBack mode. We've used a capacitance sensor in the past which proved unreliable.
 

Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #97 on: March 23, 2018, 11:11:50 am »
Does anyone know of the tip of the iron would be at the same potential as the logic level ground at the ISB port in the back?  If so, that would seem to make it simple to trigger the instant setback.

Our Engineers decided upon an electromechanical switch on the left side of the Tool Stand holster to trigger the SetBack mode. We've used a capacitance sensor in the past which proved unreliable.

Do you think we could get a picture of the ISB Tool Stand? I would like to see that switch you're talking about.  ;D

I fully understand on the tips, but we need to see some bevel tips one of the main reason I almost went with the Hakko.

Here are a few Hakko tip numbers I would like to see for sure. TC-BC1, T15-BC2, TC-BC12

Remember if you don't make them you can't sell them, and most people are not going to wait months for a tip if the job calls for it. :-DD

Plus, you said Pace decided to make less on the station and make it up on the tips.  :-+

Like I said earlier I spent almost as much on the tips as I did the station. Different jobs require different tips and I love having a selection on hand even if I only use it a few times at the cost of the new tips I will make my money back on one repair.   :-+ :-DD

I also don’t understand the 3-month delay for the ISB after the tweezer are release this is going to cost you sales.  :palm: :palm:

Thanks,
Dean

 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #98 on: March 23, 2018, 11:32:30 am »

Do you think we could get a picture of the ISB Tool Stand? I would like to see that switch you're talking about.  ;D


The only image I have does not show the switch! But when I get back to the office on Monday (I'm home-officed on Fridays), I can snap a photo of it.

Aaron
 

Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #99 on: March 23, 2018, 11:35:38 am »

Do you think we could get a picture of the ISB Tool Stand? I would like to see that switch you're talking about.  ;D


The only image I have does not show the switch! But when I get back to the office on Monday (I'm home-officed on Fridays), I can snap a photo of it.

Aaron

Excellent I look forward to seeing the picture and thanks for the support makes me feel good to support Pace again sure hope I like the unit.  :-DD

Ok so I went a looked at the TD-100 Tips and here are a few of the tips I would like to see.

1126-0637-P1
1126-0625-P1
1126-0628-P1

Thanks again,
Dean
 


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