Author Topic: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200  (Read 124892 times)

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Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #275 on: April 06, 2018, 12:27:12 pm »
Thanks for the lovely breakdown dolivas27!  I'm sure that will come in handy for the rest of us.. wasnt exactly planning on it to that degree since its pace but i'll be inspecting mine as well when it comes in.

Unseated tips with that groove + that rubber o ring.. not a good thing.. i agree that most likely fouled it up since the space gives the tip two edges to apply against the ring and pull/rip it right out

Question: did the unseated tip once it had connector pushed down on it all the way, did it stay or was it a weak connection where further insertion cycles will just cause it to come out again and cause the same issue?

I wonder with tip cycling in and out if that joint on the tip weakens to where it will then start wearing that o ring out till it jams up.
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #276 on: April 06, 2018, 12:47:13 pm »
I believe it just pisses people off, that an inexpensive Chinese product can approach the usability of a more expensive dedicated solder station.

It doesn't.
And anyone with professional soldering experience can attest to that without even having owned one. It's obvious.
It may have the performance of a more expensive iron, but in term of usability compared to a professional bench iron, it's chalk and cheese.
The bloody things doesn't even come with a power supply, a proper cable, or a stand. Now sure, you might be able to cobble together a half decent setup yourself with it, but to compare that DIY solution to a proper bench station solution that is professionally engineered out of the box is ridiculous.

lol... i watched part of rossmann's video and was going wtf when i saw him putting that thing into a bench psu..  i saw that thing on banggood a few times as well and just gave it a gander and then immediately laughed it off

why even fuck with all that when you can get a basic wes51 used for less than 50 bucks and they are built like tanks that just last?  But a beginner isnt going to know that bit either and will surely buy the contraption just for coolness factor and then their welds will most likely always be bunk and they just shot themselves in their own foot

While on one hand i agree with blue about keeping your own dick in your own vice... i dont really agree about that when it comes to newbies getting dealt a bad hand but that goes with any trade in one way or another... got to pay to play and sometimes education doesnt come cheap
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #277 on: April 06, 2018, 02:49:33 pm »


A socketed PLCC on a modern, cost optimized product?

Interesting choice.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #278 on: April 06, 2018, 03:09:31 pm »


A socketed PLCC on a modern, cost optimized product?

Interesting choice.
My guess is since they've not been a high-volume mfg before this, they're using previous gen parts to get the ball rolling. Looks like tons of room to reduce a BOM here... Target #1 could be that approx. 150VA split-bobbin transformer (I love it, but it's gotta be over $50 per 1000).
 

Offline alank2

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #279 on: April 06, 2018, 03:17:13 pm »
It allows them to swap out the EEPROM or perhaps uC.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #280 on: April 06, 2018, 05:44:02 pm »
One of the 8 pin chips, U6 appears to be a 93C46 serial EEPROM. It's soldered in, so I don't imagine it holds the main firmware, as you wouldn't be able to swap it in the field.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #281 on: April 06, 2018, 06:15:10 pm »
That's for user settings, so the PLCC beside it is uC with firmware inside. On another note, the cap is a good KMG brand 105c and oddly enough, the 7805's heat-sink is fastened by a beefy slot-screw and star-lock washer. They obviously build these like tanks! *Using the ULN2003a as a display driver seems like using sledge when a framing hammer would suffice.. and could this be 4oz. copper? It looks like a PCB thick enough to withstand hammer-like button presses of some big Navy Seal. Again, lots of room to whittle down BOM costs and still achieve pro-sumer grade and super easy to repair. I like it.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 06:28:28 pm by Cliff Matthews »
 

Offline PA4TIM

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #282 on: April 06, 2018, 06:32:22 pm »
It can be cheaper to use components you already use. If they make this in larger numbers they get a better price and lower the cost for the whole range. And maybe now  they can use the same tools etc .

Pace has a good name in the professional world, I think they are just careful not to damage that by producing junk.  I think many companies who have the big Pace stations also have a need for cheaper and/or simpeler stations but a decent quality. This way they keep the competition out and maybe have a way to reach new customers that have potential for their big toys.
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
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https://www.youtube.com/user/pa4tim my youtube channel
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #283 on: April 06, 2018, 06:45:53 pm »
Hey! Our cool flying Dutchman (with fancy shop goggles) passes 1000 posts! Congrats!
When I first saw your custom headgear, I knew I had to subscribe to your channel.. and a mighty fine shop too!  :-+
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 07:39:19 pm by Cliff Matthews »
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #284 on: April 06, 2018, 07:25:00 pm »
That's for user settings, so the PLCC beside it is uC with firmware inside. On another note, the cap is a good KMG brand 105c and oddly enough, the 7805's heat-sink is fastened by a beefy slot-screw and star-lock washer. They obviously build these like tanks! *Using the ULN2003a as a display driver seems like using sledge when a framing hammer would suffice.. and could this be 4oz. copper? It looks like a PCB thick enough to withstand hammer-like button presses of some big Navy Seal. Again, lots of room to whittle down BOM costs and still achieve pro-sumer grade and super easy to repair. I like it.

Thanks for pointing out all the nice features. Simple but rugged. I don't need an OLED screen. It's not a TV. To be honest, I don't really need hot-swappable tips, but wanted the quick recovery of integrated heater & thermocouple in the tip. I look forward to getting something that's built like a brick $#!t house. That's the way tools should be. 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 10:38:41 pm by labjr »
 

Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #285 on: April 07, 2018, 12:21:56 am »
Ok back to testing the unit out this evening and I have figured out why the unit went to 350 yesterday and would not respond until I powered the unit off and then back on.

Here is what the manual states but for me it does not go back up after the sponge is touched or using the temperature up and down buttons. I guess yesterday when I started to wick I was at the 30-minute mark and the unit went into auto setback.

Quote
Automatic Setback Timer

7. The Digital Display now shows the stored Automatic Setback time as "S-X" (x=0
thru 9). Time is shown as tens of minutes (e.g., "S-3" equals 30 minutes). A display
of "S-0" indicates that Setback is disabled. Choose one of the following:
• Press and release the Program Key ( ) to keep the currently stored
Temperature Setback time.
• Adjust the stored Temperature Setback value using keypad. ( )
• Press and release the Program Key ( ) to proceed to the next step.

What is Temperature Setback? To preserve tip life and save energy, the system can be programmed to
automatically set its Tip Temperature to a lower set point (adjustable during step 14) after a selectable period of
inactivity ( factory setting of 30 minutes). As received from the factory, this feature is enabled at 30 minutes and
temperature of 177°C (350°F). There are 3 ways to exit Temperature Setback; pressing the Scroll Up or Scroll
Down keys ( ), flipping the power switch off then on again, or holding the tip against a damp sponge. Upon
exit of the Temperature Setback, the unit will resume normal operations and the handpiece heat back up to the
Set Temperature.

I did not have time today to contact Aaron, but I did just send him a message to see where I go from here.

I should have waited for the ISB stand / kit me personally I think it is a must have but I just couldn’t wait. Once the stand is available I will be ordering it.

If anyone has the unit can you check to see if after 30 minutes of idle time the unit goes in to setback and you can bring it back by touching the sponge.

Sorry but for now I have to go back to my JBC I have work to get done.

Thanks,
Dean 
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #286 on: April 07, 2018, 12:45:19 am »
Quick question regarding set back temp. I see the Pace comes with the set back temp set to 350 F. Obviously just below the melting point of 60/40 lead solder. But I’m wondering, since these new style tips come back up to desired set temp very quickly, would setting the set back temp even LOWER, potentially add even more life to the tip? For example, choose 100 F Instead, small trade off in time, seconds perhaps. Would only be logical if temps even lower then 350 F, actually do increase tip life longevity. THANKS.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #287 on: April 07, 2018, 12:54:16 am »
Target #1 could be that approx. 150VA split-bobbin transformer (I love it, but it's gotta be over $50 per 1000).

Why don't they use a toroidal transformer? I found this online, literally first result from Google: http://www.acdcshop.gr/toroidalmainstransformer150w2302x17v-p-8789_en.html

This is cheaper than even AliExpress price.

But still, the transformer price can be further lowered by using SMPS, but I doubt the total price will drop. If the iron tip is designed for AC operation (like some JBC), you need an inverter to drive AC from SMPS DC output, that increases cost.

Therefore, I think the overall cheapest solution would be using a toroidal mains transformer.
 

Offline dolivas27

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #288 on: April 07, 2018, 01:17:06 am »
Quick question regarding set back temp. I see the Pace comes with the set back temp set to 350 F. Obviously just below the melting point of 60/40 lead solder. But I’m wondering, since these new style tips come back up to desired set temp very quickly, would setting the set back temp even LOWER, potentially add even more life to the tip? For example, choose 100 F Instead, small trade off in time, seconds perhaps. Would only be logical if temps even lower then 350 F, actually do increase tip life longevity. THANKS.

That has been discussed earlier in the thread see post #39 and Pace is changing the firmware to allow this.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #289 on: April 07, 2018, 01:28:57 am »
Quick question regarding set back temp. I see the Pace comes with the set back temp set to 350 F. Obviously just below the melting point of 60/40 lead solder. But I’m wondering, since these new style tips come back up to desired set temp very quickly, would setting the set back temp even LOWER, potentially add even more life to the tip? For example, choose 100 F Instead, small trade off in time, seconds perhaps. Would only be logical if temps even lower then 350 F, actually do increase tip life longevity. THANKS.
On the other hand, thermal expansion coefficients of the copper core and iron tip cladding are unequal, so tip life may be much shorter with larger swings in temp. (at least, this document shows it). So is there a physicist in the house?

IMO, software setback will be just below solder-melt temp to stop the solders corrosive action on the tip. I doubt they would even allow swings down to 100C if they're going uphold a reputation - See link: https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/accessories/instantsetback-cubby
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 01:34:25 am by Cliff Matthews »
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #290 on: April 07, 2018, 01:30:59 am »
Target #1 could be that approx. 150VA split-bobbin transformer (I love it, but it's gotta be over $50 per 1000).

Why don't they use a toroidal transformer? I found this online, literally first result from Google: http://www.acdcshop.gr/toroidalmainstransformer150w2302x17v-p-8789_en.html

This is cheaper than even AliExpress price.

But still, the transformer price can be further lowered by using SMPS, but I doubt the total price will drop. If the iron tip is designed for AC operation (like some JBC), you need an inverter to drive AC from SMPS DC output, that increases cost.

Therefore, I think the overall cheapest solution would be using a toroidal mains transformer.

Pretty sure some older Pace models used toroids. Probably depends what they can source.  Keep in mind. They probably have to be certified, etc. They're not building a DIY project.  I wouldn't use a switching supply regardless.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 01:33:51 am by labjr »
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #291 on: April 07, 2018, 01:37:27 am »

IMO, software setback will be just below solder-melt temp to stop the solders corrosive action on the tip. I doubt they would even allow swings down to 100C if they're going uphold a reputation - See link: https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/accessories/instantsetback-cubby

There is probably a point of diminishing returns after you get below the melting point.
 
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Offline MacMeter

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #292 on: April 07, 2018, 01:40:29 am »
Quick question regarding set back temp. I see the Pace comes with the set back temp set to 350 F. Obviously just below the melting point of 60/40 lead solder. But I’m wondering, since these new style tips come back up to desired set temp very quickly, would setting the set back temp even LOWER, potentially add even more life to the tip? For example, choose 100 F Instead, small trade off in time, seconds perhaps. Would only be logical if temps even lower then 350 F, actually do increase tip life longevity. THANKS.
On the other hand, thermal expansion coefficients of the copper core and iron tip cladding are unequal, so tip life may be much shorter with larger swings in temp. (at least, this document shows it). So is there a physicist in the house?

IMO, software setback will be just below solder-melt temp to stop the solders corrosive action on the tip. I doubt they would even allow swings down to 100C if they're going uphold a reputation - See link: https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/accessories/instantsetback-cubby

Thanks, it was more of a theoretical question, not a feature request, which you got! I have an iron that can be set as low as 50F. and then wondered, what would an ideal low temp be, if speed of recovery were not a factor. Interesting point about the potential downside of using larger temperature swings, though I have no clue, hence my question.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #293 on: April 07, 2018, 02:19:53 am »
I heard that vacuum tubes in radio station equipment back in the day, lasted far longer(many years) by leaving it constantly powered on than when they hot-cold cycled it. Far less failures.
 
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Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #294 on: April 07, 2018, 02:30:47 am »
What you are looking for is thermal shock.  They are changing the firmware to allow the lowest user set able set point to be the same as the ISB temp of 350F/177C and thats about it.  Once you have solidified/frozen the molecules in place thats all you need to pro long your tip life.. if you start dropping down lower you start causing more than needed transition strain/stress between the differing metal layers which can induce thermal cracking and the larger the cracks just like a road.. the bigger the pot holes get eventually

Edit: there are other alloys like Tin/Bismuth that transition at 138C but thats rarer in actual use i think.. everything else is getting more into rohs alloys that are 220Cs+ so 350F/177C is a good minimum number to work with
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 02:39:10 am by Elasia »
 
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Offline MacMeter

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #295 on: April 07, 2018, 02:52:52 am »
What you are looking for is thermal shock.  They are changing the firmware to allow the lowest user set able set point to be the same as the ISB temp of 350F/177C and thats about it.  Once you have solidified/frozen the molecules in place thats all you need to pro long your tip life.. if you start dropping down lower you start causing more than needed transition strain/stress between the differing metal layers which can induce thermal cracking and the larger the cracks just like a road.. the bigger the pot holes get eventually

Edit: there are other alloys like Tin/Bismuth that transition at 138C but thats rarer in actual use i think.. everything else is getting more into rohs alloys that are 220Cs+ so 350F/177C is a good minimum number to work with

THANKS, seems logical, Cliff was on the right path. I’ll stick with 350F for my set back temp. Learn something new here almost daily!

SORRY, hate to sidetrack threads, but this seemed “almost” on topic. :)
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #296 on: April 07, 2018, 02:35:10 pm »
Ok the first tip I installed gave me the CHP error, so I pulled the tip and tried to reinsert it but could not get it to seat with the little tip tool they provided.

I'm kind of disconcerted by this. I wonder if I should cancel my order.
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 

Offline jagw

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #297 on: April 07, 2018, 03:35:58 pm »
Ok back to testing the unit out this evening and I have figured out why the unit went to 350 yesterday and would not respond until I powered the unit off and then back on.

Here is what the manual states but for me it does not go back up after the sponge is touched or using the temperature up and down buttons. I guess yesterday when I started to wick I was at the 30-minute mark and the unit went into auto setback.


I did not have time today to contact Aaron, but I did just send him a message to see where I go from here.

I should have waited for the ISB stand / kit me personally I think it is a must have but I just couldn’t wait. Once the stand is available I will be ordering it.

If anyone has the unit can you check to see if after 30 minutes of idle time the unit goes in to setback and you can bring it back by touching the sponge.

Sorry but for now I have to go back to my JBC I have work to get done.

Thanks,
Dean

I also have one of the first units.  No problems at all with my tips or handle.  The iron works great and the build quality appears excellent.

I do however have the same issue with the iron not sensing usage to avoid always triggering setback.  Also when going into setback it also does not reset by touching the sponge.  It does reset with the arrow key though.   I thought all this should work without the ISB stand.

When my unit is first turned on, the firmware version of 1-0 flashes up.  I see the users manual is already referenced to version 1-2.  I wonder if these issues are already resolved in 1-2?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 03:39:28 pm by jagw »
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #298 on: April 07, 2018, 04:14:38 pm »
Ok the first tip I installed gave me the CHP error, so I pulled the tip and tried to reinsert it but could not get it to seat with the little tip tool they provided.

I'm kind of disconcerted by this. I wonder if I should cancel my order.

A pace rep reads this forum and actively engages folks, considering they are fast to respond to their initial issues if prompted i wouldnt worry about it.  The rubber o ring and the end of the tip not being compressed in on some is the only thing ive seen to give me pause but if it fouls up im sure they would send parts or flip the entire piece for dissection

jaqw, if you msg arron they will send you an updated chip if need be
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #299 on: April 08, 2018, 08:30:23 am »
I also have one of the first units.  No problems at all with my tips or handle.  The iron works great and the build quality appears excellent.

I do however have the same issue with the iron not sensing usage to avoid always triggering setback.  Also when going into setback it also does not reset by touching the sponge.  It does reset with the arrow key though.   I thought all this should work without the ISB stand.
I have an Ersa i-Con nano, which uses the same method for determining usage to avoid setback. The situation that gets annoying on occasion is when it’s begun to enter setback (so it’s expecting a temp drop), and then a joint only needs a small amount of heat, so it just thinks it’s still dropping to setback. Plunging it into the brass wool sometimes is enough to wake it up, but usually it’s easier to just press a button. (The “big” i-Con models use an accelerometer in the handle to determine disuse, which is probably more reliable.)
 


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