Author Topic: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200  (Read 116332 times)

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Online Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #300 on: April 08, 2018, 01:52:22 pm »
Ok so the problem with my unit is for sure the handle and could have been caused by the quality control problem on the tips not being fully assembled.
Pace will need to address the tip assembly problems.

They have already discovered a batch issue in some tips, so may have lead to unexpected problems and could be resolved already. As long as Pace knows about it, to know what to look for when testing.

I do however have the same issue with the iron not sensing usage to avoid always triggering setback.  Also when going into setback it also does not reset by touching the sponge.  It does reset with the arrow key though.   I thought all this should work without the ISB stand.

Aaron from Pace advised:

"The default setting is the unit will automatically “set back” the temperature to 350°F after 30 minutes of inactivity, then shut off the power to the TD-200 Handpiece 60 minutes after it goes into SetBack."

"The built-in Setback works like this: If you have the Setback Timer set for 60 minutes, the system senses that the unit is not in use and starts a clock timer that lowers the temperature after it senses no thermal load or activity for 60 minutes. It will react and reset the timer if it senses more than 10° or 15°F variance. For example, if you touch the sponge it drops the temp significantly and resets the timer to 60 minutes again."

"The unit detects thermal loads very quickly, but this depends upon the shape and mass of the tip. Generally, lower mass tips detect a load faster than the high-mass tips, but both are still sensing temperature change within 1 second."


Should be easy to test, if it doesn't come out of setback after holding it on a moist sponge for a second or two, likely either the station has switched off the handle or you have a setting problem.

When my unit is first turned on, the firmware version of 1-0 flashes up.  I see the users manual is already referenced to version 1-2.  I wonder if these issues are already resolved in 1-2?

The only change in 1.2 as far as we are aware was to allow the temp (and presets) to be set as low as 350°F/177°C. This would allow you to use a preset as a setback (if you wished).

As of a week ago there were only 100 in stock or customers hands, the rest were for their sales channel. Pace obviously will resolve further problems as they arise since it's early days still. I'd expect them to tweak the firmware until everything is spot on.

From what we have seen so far no reason not to get stuck in and start using it. Still waiting for mine, it's looking like I'll be in the next batch so will have to wait.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 01:54:35 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline jagw

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #301 on: April 08, 2018, 02:14:29 pm »

Should be easy to test, if it doesn't come out of setback after holding it on a moist sponge for a second or two, likely either the station has switched off the handle or you have a setting problem.

From what we have seen so far no reason not to get stuck in and start using it. Still waiting for mine, it's looking like I'll be in the next batch so will have to wait.

I have tested it repeatedly.  I can see the display drop 10-15 degrees on the wet sponge, yet no wake-up.
I am using the iron in the meantime.   I will wait a bit and see if any other issues arise before requesting an update though.
 

Online Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #302 on: April 08, 2018, 02:33:24 pm »
I have tested it repeatedly.  I can see the display drop 10-15 degrees on the wet sponge, yet no wake-up. I am using the iron in the meantime.   I will wait a bit and see if any other issues arise before requesting an update though.

Might pay to go through your station and copy down the settings you are using along with the tip part number and see if someone here can replicate it.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Online Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #303 on: April 08, 2018, 02:34:16 pm »
Mikes update on his initial tip problems, looks like all has been resolved.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Online Shock

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« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 02:39:02 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #305 on: April 08, 2018, 03:18:29 pm »
I have an Ersa i-Con nano, which uses the same method for determining usage to avoid setback. The situation that gets annoying on occasion is when it’s begun to enter setback (so it’s expecting a temp drop), and then a joint only needs a small amount of heat, so it just thinks it’s still dropping to setback. Plunging it into the brass wool sometimes is enough to wake it up, but usually it’s easier to just press a button. (The “big” i-Con models use an accelerometer in the handle to determine disuse, which is probably more reliable.)

I think it's more likely to be a programming error than a detection issue. Such as an improperly nested subroutine or an error in the number specified for the temperature difference which resets the countdown timer. I don't believe previous models have the issue. And it would seem more likely that it would falsely detect use when it wasn't being used, rather than what's happening here. If someone is soldering for thirty minutes it seems virtually impossible not to detect a drop in temperature one time.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 05:04:18 pm by labjr »
 

Offline jagw

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #306 on: April 08, 2018, 03:30:38 pm »

Might pay to go through your station and copy down the settings you are using along with the tip part number and see if someone here can replicate it.

Dolivas27 in post #285 had the same issue on the Pace ADS200.   I suspect a firmware problem here also.
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #307 on: April 09, 2018, 05:49:55 pm »
I wanted to give you an update on the status of the ADS200. We are still making some changes to the firmware and examining the tips that came back from Mike's Radio Repair. We will also e taking a detailed look at dolivas27's Station & tips. I'll get back to you with an update soon. Just be assured that if you have any issues with the ADS200, we are committed to making it right for you. Thanks for your patience.
 
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Online alank2

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #308 on: April 09, 2018, 06:37:08 pm »
Aaron - I've tested the 4 tips I've been using so far and all of them are right on the correct temperature.
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #309 on: April 10, 2018, 05:13:22 pm »
Has MSRP been established for the ADS200 with setback stand?

Will the switch and cable assembly for the ISB stand be available separately for those who wish to retrofit their stands?

Thanks

 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #310 on: April 10, 2018, 05:28:42 pm »
Has MSRP been established for the ADS200 with setback stand?

Will the switch and cable assembly for the ISB stand be available separately for those who wish to retrofit their stands?

Thanks

Yes, but only for the US (120VAC) version: ADS200 PN 8007-0579 $265 each. Will have Euro and GBP (UK) pricing for 230 VAC versions soon as well as ISB Tool Stand PN 6019-0089-P1. It should be something equivalent but don't have the specifics yet.

Aaron

 
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Offline unmaker

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #311 on: April 12, 2018, 02:33:39 am »
Upon reading about the issues others have had with their TD-200 I decided to inspect my own TD-100. I had not even realized it, but the rubber grommet inside my TD-100 had come out of place and was shoved way down into the handpiece.  I had to get a pair of tweezers to pull it out and in that process it became a bit damaged. The other issue I had was one of my tips would not heat up like others have experienced with their TD-200. I have two 1126-0633-P1 tips; one works and the other doesn't. I took a video to demonstrate the issue:

https://streamable.com/ixiua

They look very much like the new ultra performance TD-200 tips but are actually a part of Pace's "Diamond Series" tips that can be used with their TD-100 and HTD-100 handpieces (I believe the HTD-100 is discontinued). This design, with the increased thermal mass near the end of the tip, was also used in Pace's "Gold Series" tips for use with their WJS-100 station. So I wonder if anyone has experienced this issue with a "Gold Series" tip? I also have other Diamond tips and have not tried them all yet. 

http://www.gsaservice.com/PACE_Diamond_Series_Soldering_Tips.pdf

I've included some pictures here:

https://imgur.com/a/l7OLO
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #312 on: April 12, 2018, 11:26:04 am »
FWIW, it appears the hi-temp o-rings are sold in packages of 5 (ask for part #1213-0090-P5). Text: This O-Ring is used to secure the tip and forms a protective seal to ensure the electrical connections in the TD-100 are always clean.  They will will wear out with normal use from the tip being inserted and pulled out and need to be replaced periodically.

Aaron, are these O-rings compatible
? (TD200 is not listed under "Works with these handpieces" info..)
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #313 on: April 12, 2018, 12:06:12 pm »
FWIW, it appears the hi-temp o-rings are sold in packages of 5 (ask for part #1213-0090-P5). Text: This O-Ring is used to secure the tip and forms a protective seal to ensure the electrical connections in the TD-100 are always clean.  They will will wear out with normal use from the tip being inserted and pulled out and need to be replaced periodically.

Aaron, are these O-rings compatible
? (TD200 is not listed under "Works with these handpieces" info..)

Yes, they are the very same. And you are correct, the O-Rings (as we call them) do wear out. The positioning of them matters to a degree, but as long as they hold your tip in place and the tip doesn't fall out, you're good.

Aaron
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #314 on: April 12, 2018, 12:22:15 pm »
Upon reading about the issues others have had with their TD-200 I decided to inspect my own TD-100. I had not even realized it, but the rubber grommet inside my TD-100 had come out of place and was shoved way down into the handpiece.  I had to get a pair of tweezers to pull it out and in that process it became a bit damaged. The other issue I had was one of my tips would not heat up like others have experienced with their TD-200. I have two 1126-0633-P1 tips; one works and the other doesn't. I took a video to demonstrate the issue:

https://streamable.com/ixiua

They look very much like the new ultra performance TD-200 tips but are actually a part of Pace's "Diamond Series" tips that can be used with their TD-100 and HTD-100 handpieces (I believe the HTD-100 is discontinued). This design, with the increased thermal mass near the end of the tip, was also used in Pace's "Gold Series" tips for use with their WJS-100 station. So I wonder if anyone has experienced this issue with a "Gold Series" tip? I also have other Diamond tips and have not tried them all yet. 

http://www.gsaservice.com/PACE_Diamond_Series_Soldering_Tips.pdf



I've included some pictures here:

https://imgur.com/a/l7OLO

I can see from the date code on the tips that the top tip shown in your image (the darker looking one) is from 2007 and the bottom one (the tip that no longer works) is from 2006. So both are fairly old. Can you tell me when that tip stopped working? Did the tip fail immediately or after a few years of use? Note that Diamond Tips are heavily coated (over 10 mils) with iron plating which can outlast the plating life. But it is hard to say what caused the failure, certainly not the O-Ring unless it was so loose in the TD-100 handpiece that it slipped out and dropped on a hard floor (which can short out the heater wires).

Aaron
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #315 on: April 12, 2018, 03:13:16 pm »

Yes, they are the very same. And you are correct, the O-Rings (as we call them) do wear out. The positioning of them matters to a degree, but as long as they hold your tip in place and the tip doesn't fall out, you're good.

Aaron

Do you recommend greasing or lubricating the O-ring?
 

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #316 on: April 12, 2018, 03:26:43 pm »

Yes, they are the very same. And you are correct, the O-Rings (as we call them) do wear out. The positioning of them matters to a degree, but as long as they hold your tip in place and the tip doesn't fall out, you're good.

Aaron

Do you recommend greasing or lubricating the O-ring?

At the present time, we don't add any lubricant at all, so it's not recommended. I doubt that a tiny bit would hurt anything, but the idea is for the O-Ring to grip the tip so that it does not fall out. So adding lubricant might make it too slippery. The secondary function of the O-Ring is to prevent gaseous flux vapor from fouling the gold contacts (a problem, especially with heavy RMA fluxes in our initial prototypes way back when), which it does beautifully.

Aaron
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #317 on: April 12, 2018, 05:55:44 pm »
I wouldnt add lube either unless its extremely tight but even then you might just want a replacement o ring that they could send you for a couple of bucks to get a 5 pack.. if it was still too tight then it could be a machining error being a few thou off and might be worth a call to pace.

Also important note about lube and o rings... they must be matched or over time you will destroy the o ring. Using incompatible lube on an o ring seal is a big no no
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #318 on: April 12, 2018, 07:11:12 pm »
Thanks,

After I thought about it, I figured it probably wouldn't be a good idea. Over time, silicone grease may migrate down the cartridge and foul up the tip or contaminate your work.

I don't use polish containing silicone on my lacquer finished guitars for similar reasons. According to one manufacturer, it works it way through the finish into the wood and you can't get it out. Then refinish work becomes difficult because nothing will bond properly.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #319 on: April 14, 2018, 06:31:04 pm »
Whatever happens, I'd rather wait longer and get something reliable than to be a beta tester and having to potentially deal with customs and shipping and returns and whatever. (customs = nightmare)
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 

Online alank2

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #320 on: April 14, 2018, 07:58:02 pm »
I used mine yesterday for a couple of hours and it got everything done.  The only issue I am having is that it goes to sleep when it shouldn't.  Hopefully they will get that fixed in the next version.  I'm going to disable it in options for now (sleep=0).  I use the button to lower the temp to 380 anyway.
 

Offline unmaker

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #321 on: April 15, 2018, 12:30:03 pm »
Upon reading about the issues others have had with their TD-200 I decided to inspect my own TD-100. I had not even realized it, but the rubber grommet inside my TD-100 had come out of place and was shoved way down into the handpiece.  I had to get a pair of tweezers to pull it out and in that process it became a bit damaged. The other issue I had was one of my tips would not heat up like others have experienced with their TD-200. I have two 1126-0633-P1 tips; one works and the other doesn't. I took a video to demonstrate the issue:

https://streamable.com/ixiua

They look very much like the new ultra performance TD-200 tips but are actually a part of Pace's "Diamond Series" tips that can be used with their TD-100 and HTD-100 handpieces (I believe the HTD-100 is discontinued). This design, with the increased thermal mass near the end of the tip, was also used in Pace's "Gold Series" tips for use with their WJS-100 station. So I wonder if anyone has experienced this issue with a "Gold Series" tip? I also have other Diamond tips and have not tried them all yet. 

http://www.gsaservice.com/PACE_Diamond_Series_Soldering_Tips.pdf



I've included some pictures here:

https://imgur.com/a/l7OLO

I can see from the date code on the tips that the top tip shown in your image (the darker looking one) is from 2007 and the bottom one (the tip that no longer works) is from 2006. So both are fairly old. Can you tell me when that tip stopped working? Did the tip fail immediately or after a few years of use? Note that Diamond Tips are heavily coated (over 10 mils) with iron plating which can outlast the plating life. But it is hard to say what caused the failure, certainly not the O-Ring unless it was so loose in the TD-100 handpiece that it slipped out and dropped on a hard floor (which can short out the heater wires).

Aaron

Thank you for your input. Unfortunately earlier today the working tip dated 2007 stopped working midway through soldering. These tips were included with the used MBT-350 I got off ebay and I've been using the tip dated 2007 since November 2017. The one dated 2006 I've not been able to use at all. The seller claimed a few of these tips were unused including the two shown in the video. They appeared unused but since I'm not the original owner I can't say for certain. Maybe they were dropped before like you've mentioned but definitely not by me. I bought additional tips from TEquipment and they all work fine. They are dated 2016/2017.

 

Offline elektropionir

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #322 on: April 17, 2018, 10:13:00 am »
Yes, but only for the US (120VAC) version: ADS200 PN 8007-0579 $265 each. Will have Euro and GBP (UK) pricing for 230 VAC versions soon as well as ISB Tool Stand PN 6019-0089-P1. It should be something equivalent but don't have the specifics yet.

Aaron

Dear Aaron

Could you give us a notice here when ADS200 becomes available in EU, and from which suppliers.

Regarding this topic.
I did not understand bashing of JBC. In my company we use JBC equipment all the time. Never had problems with oxidizing tips.
They have great collection of cartridges, and they all work great. The units are practically indestructible.

However JBC is extremely overpriced, and I am not a kind of person that would cheap out on tools. I have no problem in paying for quality.
For me personally the deal breaker is the fact that middle range stations from JBC cannot be used with both iron and tweezers. You need 2 stations for that.
There is now DI-D2 model from JBC but this I think a new addition, that supports both iron and tweezers, however only the station without any hand-piece costs about 450-470euro on batronix and that is kind of a crappy move from JBC.

When i read that ADS200 will have support a new model of tweezers I was sold immediately, and decided to wait a little unit this unit comes out. I canceled my JBC order.
 
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #323 on: April 17, 2018, 11:41:45 am »
elektropionir, sorry for the catchy thread title. IMHO, only small group of owners (mostly on the first page) had poor experience with their tips. Accurately controlling 250w tips on an ergonomic iron requires a good company to do it reliably  :-+  However read the comments from Pace, they know who their competition is.
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #324 on: April 17, 2018, 04:24:46 pm »
Internet forums tend to be that way. People mostly report great experiences or they slam you with bad ones. Not much in between. Some will criticize a low cost product that happens to be a good value because it doesn't perform exactly like the super expensive model they're used to. And they're probably less likely to forgive a bad experience with expensive products.

I receive emails for service work that I do. I find that some people are much more demanding now than they were thirty years ago. They expect the best service, instantly, for the lowest cost. Sometimes when you help them, you don't even get the courtesy of a reply.
 
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