Author Topic: Newest Pace ADS200 soldering station. Production-grade quality for about $200  (Read 92810 times)

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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #900 on: January 10, 2019, 09:57:53 pm »
Hey =) i just fixed my 10+ year old  espresso machine and.... tada ! Silicone o-rings in bulk.

The pace o-ring is about 8.1x4.5mm and these replacements for espresso ptfe tube is 8x4 (2) mm.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jura-Seal-100-Piece-for-Teflon-hoses-O-Ring-4-0-x-2-0-mm-VMQ/382523629210?hash=item59102f5e9a:g:r0kAAOSwaWhZyEFU

Looks like a bowl of SpaghettiOs! But who needs 100 of them? They probably get old. Not sure how critical the size is either.
 

Offline 3160550

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #901 on: January 10, 2019, 10:35:35 pm »
You go ahead and buy 5pcs for the same price as I get 100 pcs. Let me worry about them 90+ i have left getting old  :-+

Hint: They where getting old after 10 years or so at about 100C in an espresso machine...that made about 10450 cups before failing.

About size:.... Well the original is ID 4.5mm and my alternative is ID 4mm... Considering that the function of the o-ring is to center the tip and hold it in place...Well..hmm.. :horse:
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #902 on: January 11, 2019, 12:49:35 am »
I'm still working on the original O-ring with 5 on-hand and I'd rather use the specified part. I suspect the friction it creates plays a part in keeping piping-hot tips from dangerously dropping out. Definitely not a place to penny-pinch..
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #903 on: January 11, 2019, 08:23:20 pm »

First, all the best in a New Year..

Not putting words in your mouth, wasn't my intention, just illustrating the point...

LOL grognard... haven't heard that one in years...

You cannot be farther from truth... I embrace smarter and better without hint of luddism...
It's just that lately lots of new stuff is not better, just more technicolor...

Soldering iron can have advanced soldering profile without touch screen.
Soldering profiles are exactly something i would pay to get, because it is important sometimes. Some of the soldering stations with very low thermal mass are actually heating some components too fast.

Presets are great if you mix soldering targets and technologies. Lockout is also great but is used exactly where you don't want grunts changing parameters when you turn your back.

Real time graphs look cool but not really necessary, i can see how solder melts... Metcal solder quality diagnosys is a non-feature.. It's a timer...

I just want soldering iron to work well. If you are busy doing your work, you don't look at soldering iron's screen... You look at the stuff you are working on..
I agree that they could have put more of screen, but in the end not a problem.
I don't mind graphic screen if that's not only feature... I don't want style over substance.. And not prepared to pay more for colour screen on equally performing soldering station.

Cheers,

Sinisa

>  I don't want style over substance
Of course...but that cannot be an enemy to progress. It is not like a touchscreen is *expensive* these days. And I don't care for one either but an m5stack is $25 and has  Wifi, Bt + buttons and a battery AND a case! 1/10th the cost of a glorified heater i.e. soldering iron!

>Real time graphs look cool but not really necessary, i can see how solder melts... Metcal solder quality diagnosys is a non-feature.. It's a timer...

It's about hard data not about what it looks like. IIRC Metcal's quality diagnosis is better than just a timer but I may be wrong here.

Software is exceedingly cheap to iterate on. Hardware is not. Very hard to add or remove a button after the fact.


Got my ADS200. It is a tank. We'll see what mods I can do!
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #904 on: January 11, 2019, 09:12:47 pm »
Of course...but that cannot be an enemy to progress. It is not like a touchscreen is *expensive* these days. And I don't care for one either but an m5stack is $25 and has  Wifi, Bt + buttons and a battery AND a case! 1/10th the cost of a glorified heater i.e. soldering iron!

>Real time graphs look cool but not really necessary, i can see how solder melts... Metcal solder quality diagnosys is a non-feature.. It's a timer...

It's about hard data not about what it looks like. IIRC Metcal's quality diagnosis is better than just a timer but I may be wrong here.

Software is exceedingly cheap to iterate on. Hardware is not. Very hard to add or remove a button after the fact.


Got my ADS200. It is a tank. We'll see what mods I can do!

I agree with all. I'm all for progress.
Except Metcal diagnosys. It is a counter that measures expended energy. It can measure if you spend correct amount of energy for a solder joint (a standard one). It cannot see how it looks.
Solder inspection is either optical or X-ray. Both are visual, or computerized visual. Also , if size of soldering joint is smaller or larger.... I see how can it be useful to total beginner, but very quickly it is not very useful.

Congrats on new station, and I wish you good luck with mods, I hope you enjoy working on it and to be successful to make something you like.

All the best.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #905 on: January 11, 2019, 11:20:11 pm »
I fully expect to see some aftermarket mods for the ADS200. Even a drop-in replacement PCB and front panel. Maybe after the station becomes more popular. Not sure how long it took for Hakko T12. But it's been out for quite some time.
 

Offline edvb

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #906 on: January 12, 2019, 01:13:50 am »
Well 5 tips,brass wool and the "o" rings arrived today. I checked on the ADS 200 and the last two tips and was told they will ship around Jan. 24th. It is a little longer than I expected but I can deal with it. Now just looking for a used AmScope  7X-45X  with a .5 Barlow lens and ring LED light.

If anyone in the US has leads let me know.
 

Online tooki

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #907 on: January 12, 2019, 02:36:15 pm »
I fully expect to see some aftermarket mods for the ADS200. Even a drop-in replacement PCB and front panel. Maybe after the station becomes more popular. Not sure how long it took for Hakko T12. But it's been out for quite some time.
I think there’s essentially zero market for drop-in replacement PCBs. In the Hakko world, they exist only because clone makers decided to sell individual parts, and I’d be surprised if many of those boards end up being used in genuine Hakko stations.

Besides, a huge amount of the value of a name-brand station is in the control loops — they’ll have spent a lot of time optimizing them, using decades of accumulated expertise. I don’t see why you’d give that up.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #908 on: January 19, 2019, 03:59:13 am »
While watching a "How It's Made" video of McIntosh Labs, I spotted a Pace TD-100 hand-piece around 3:35

https://youtu.be/2HgS6gvokEI

 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #909 on: January 19, 2019, 05:02:40 am »
Dave owns a Pace ST25 and a Pace Fume Exhauster as well which you can see in his earlier videos (8:30).

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #910 on: January 19, 2019, 07:53:41 pm »
I didn't see the ADS200 in any of his latest video's or the time-laps move.. Perhaps it's going to be slaving in the new assembly office.. (left office by the windows) while the fancy JBC will continue all pretty on the video bench.
 

Offline pshersby

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station TWEEZERS
« Reply #911 on: January 25, 2019, 02:24:55 pm »
I use this station,  from Farnell UK the better tips only cost about 50p  (50cents) more than the others.
I was looking for a tweezer handpiece because I'm doing repair work,  STILL none available at the moment but Pace had the following to say about it. I don't really want a mix of stations and bits so I'll use some cheep ones and keep waiting


Quote
    Good Morning.
     
    Thank you for your recent enquiry via the PACE Worldwide Website.
     
    Currently, there is no Tweezer handpiece available for the ADS 200 but I can tell you that one will be introduced later this year.  In the meantime, the MT-100 and TT-65 handpieces are available and can be used in conjunction with the ST 50 Power Source.
     
    I hope that this information helps, should you require any additional details please do not hesitate to contact me.
     
    Regards
     
    Doug Winship

    PACE Europe Limited
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station TWEEZERS
« Reply #912 on: January 25, 2019, 02:57:53 pm »
I use this station,  from Farnell UK the better tips only cost about 50p  (50cents) more than the others.
I was looking for a tweezer handpiece because I'm doing repair work,  STILL none available at the moment but Pace had the following to say about it. I don't really want a mix of stations and bits so I'll use some cheep ones and keep waiting


Quote
    Good Morning.
     
    Thank you for your recent enquiry via the PACE Worldwide Website.
     
    Currently, there is no Tweezer handpiece available for the ADS 200 but I can tell you that one will be introduced later this year.  In the meantime, the MT-100 and TT-65 handpieces are available and can be used in conjunction with the ST 50 Power Source.
     
    I hope that this information helps, should you require any additional details please do not hesitate to contact me.
     
    Regards
     
    Doug Winship

    PACE Europe Limited

We are in the process of creating a new AccuDrive powered (meaning ADS200-compatible) Thermal Tweezer that is vastly improved over the current MT-100 MiniTweez. It will be called the MT-200 and likely be available in late-March/early April. The MT-200 handpiece is going into production by next month as we are set to receive the first long-leadtime machined parts next week. Thus we should have working pre-production models for beta test. The biggest hold-up is on the MT-200 Tip & Tool Stand, the tooling of which is a long and tedious process. The Tool Stand won't be available until at least March, and that's if everything is exactly right - if the tooling needs further tweaking, there could be delays. I know it's a long wait, but I think you'll be impressed with the results!

Aaron
 
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station TWEEZERS
« Reply #913 on: January 26, 2019, 12:41:57 pm »
...Currently, there is no Tweezer handpiece available for the ADS 200
Hi Aaron, Re: MT-200
Any chance of getting some unlisted YouTube footage next week from IPC APEX?
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station TWEEZERS
« Reply #914 on: January 26, 2019, 04:38:42 pm »
...Currently, there is no Tweezer handpiece available for the ADS 200
Hi Aaron, Re: MT-200
Any chance of getting some unlisted YouTube footage next week from IPC APEX?

Hi Cliff,

If the parts get into PACE on Monday or Tuesday, they'll assemble one and send it to the show, but we're only showing it to select distributors. So probably not!

In any case, if any of you are coming to IPC Apex at the San Diego Convention Center 29-31 Jan , feel free to stop by PACE's booth at #2809. I'll be there, thinning gray hair and all! Note that practically every major soldering iron manufacturer exhibits here including Hakko, JBC, Weller, Quick, etc ...

Aaron
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station TWEEZERS
« Reply #915 on: January 26, 2019, 11:01:47 pm »
Thanks for the update.   Interesting that you are changing your holder design.  We use these where I work and I think we had destroyed every set of the rubber handles due to the holder's design.  I am happy to hear you may possibly be addressing this.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #916 on: January 29, 2019, 02:50:36 pm »
The green are the newer set, the blue are mostly what we have.   Most of us now will just lay them on top of the holder rather than lock them in place to avoid further damage. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #917 on: February 02, 2019, 07:32:38 pm »
Looks like we are not the only ones who saw the handles degrade.   I wonder if PACE found problems with the materials and if the green will hold up better, or if it really is the design of the holder that caused them to degrade.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pace-1124-1004-6010-0140-6993-Desoldering-Tweezer-Soldering-Iron/263996520098?epid=2295972161&hash=item3d776b36a2:g:CmYAAOSwlxxbyQg8:rk:4:pf:1&frcectupt=true
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #918 on: February 02, 2019, 08:35:25 pm »
Looks like we are not the only ones who saw the handles degrade.   I wonder if PACE found problems with the materials and if the green will hold up better, or if it really is the design of the holder that caused them to degrade.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pace-1124-1004-6010-0140-6993-Desoldering-Tweezer-Soldering-Iron/263996520098?epid=2295972161&hash=item3d776b36a2:g:CmYAAOSwlxxbyQg8:rk:4:pf:1&frcectupt=true

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your comments. I forwarded your previous images to our engineering team, and they don't believe your degradation is due to the Tool Stand design, although it could contribute. More likely, it is due to high temperatures seen by the front end of the grips, plus breakdown due to chemicals used to clean the pcbs, like alcohol or other flux cleaners. High handle temperatures (especially if the handle temperature rises above 140°F) during extended production use has been an issue in the MT-100 Tweezer - it was never intended to be used continuously for hours at a time. And the handles can get extremely hot ... I've heard reported temperatures of over 180°F when maxed out at highest temp settings! Which is enough to burn fingers! Some companies use the tweezer for hours on end at the highest set temperature, and this is when we usually see degradation of the grips. It is for this reason that we have replacement grips available under MT-100 Soft Grips PN 1119-0165-P2 (Package of 2).

Our new MT-200 has been redesigned to minimize overheating of the handle and will not break down due to excessive grip temperatures. We accomplished this through the use of the very same "Cool Touch" technology we use in the TD-200: the internal portion of the grip is machined from a solid piece of aircraft aluminum (aluminium) which dissipates the heat tremendously (as Trump would say). Thus the grip temperature should never rise above 120°F, no matter what temperature you are set at.
 
About the Blue vs. Green colored grips: the blue rubber was the original color of the grip, while a green grip was to designate "lead-free" use. In the late 2000's, green was the universal code-color (colour) used by most board manufacturers to symbolize a "lead-free-only" work area, so mats, soldering irons, stations used in a lead-free work area had some touch of green in them. But since lead-free soldering is the norm these days for production houses, it has fallen out of favor. PACE has standardized to green grips for an even more simple reason: the supplier of our blue grips could no longer provide an accurate color-match (dayglo blue looked horrible), so we standardized on green!

About the new Tip & Tool Stand. The holder portion will not be stamped from sheet metal (with resultant sharp edges), it will be a casting with softer, rounded edges and will be significantly more sturdy. In addition, we will incorporate an "Instant SetBack (ISB)" switch into the casting to automatically lower the temperature of the tips to improve tip life.

I was just told that the new MT-200 with Tip & Tool Stand, compatible with the ADS200, should be available in April or May.

Best,

Aaron

 
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #919 on: February 02, 2019, 09:00:09 pm »
Our new MT-200 has been redesigned to minimize overheating of the handle and will not break down due to excessive grip temperatures. We accomplished this through the use of the very same "Cool Touch" technology we use in the TD-200

That is indeed very cool, I was hoping Pace would go that route. I think the silicon style grip on the aluminum TD200 and TD100a is a good compromise, you want some comfort and grip but not a dirt collecting sponge or something that oils will easily break down.

Perhaps we will see an MT100a for Intelliheat stations? I'm thinking you will if the tip geometry doesn't change.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #920 on: February 03, 2019, 02:05:28 am »
Thanks for the info.   I am happy to hear that this problem is solved.     Funny to see you posting about the heat.   My old tweezers can get very hot and every time I use the newer ones, I think how nice these are compared with mine.   

Yes, we use these a fair amount and have been using them for 10+ years.   They are a great tool IMO outside of the grips.   I did look into new grips after your first post but no one seemed to have them in stock.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #921 on: February 07, 2019, 12:25:46 am »
Aaron,

We purchase tips for the Intelliheat by bulk.  Around 20 - 50 tips at a time.   It appears PACE put's the tips for the irons through a burn-in cycle.   It seems like the ones for the tweezers are not.      I am curious if the tips have a high infant mortality or is there some other reason they are cycled?   I mentioned with my older Sensatemp, you require a conditioning cycle which is a feature built into my old controller.   Are the Intelliheat tips burned in for this reason?   We notice that every time we order tips that they take several weeks to deliver.  Which again makes me wonder if you are having problems producing them?   Are the tips made outside the USA causing the long lead times?   

Will the tips for the ADS200 also have long lead times?  Do you still have to burn them in before they are shipped? 

Just curious.  Thanks again for providing us with the inside details. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline helius

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #922 on: February 07, 2019, 01:53:22 am »
The reason for the burn-in procedure for SensaTemp heaters was described in this post.
As for the tips being tested, there were some early reviews of the ADS-200 that mentioned some tips were D.O.A. I imagine Pace is eager to make sure that any production problems are caught before delivery to customers.
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #923 on: February 07, 2019, 05:29:22 am »
Aaron,

We purchase tips for the Intelliheat by bulk.  Around 20 - 50 tips at a time.   It appears PACE put's the tips for the irons through a burn-in cycle.   It seems like the ones for the tweezers are not.      I am curious if the tips have a high infant mortality or is there some other reason they are cycled?   I mentioned with my older Sensatemp, you require a conditioning cycle which is a feature built into my old controller.   Are the Intelliheat tips burned in for this reason?   We notice that every time we order tips that they take several weeks to deliver.  Which again makes me wonder if you are having problems producing them?   Are the tips made outside the USA causing the long lead times?   

Will the tips for the ADS200 also have long lead times?  Do you still have to burn them in before they are shipped? 

Just curious.  Thanks again for providing us with the inside details.

Joe,

While they look the same as our standard IntelliHeat Tip Cartridges, AccuDrive Tips (ADS200 tips) have an interior heater with a different construction much more difficult to produce than our standard ones. And Helius is correct about the reason we test every tip before it leaves the factory in North Carolina: the last thing we need is another production fiasco like the one that occurred last year! We normally test only 25-40% of IntelliHeat-style cartridges, but 100% of AccuDrive Tips are tested which results in a slight discoloration towards the top of the tip.

Our tips don't have an abnormally high mortality rate, and rarely do our tips stop working due to heater failure. In fact, tip failure is usually caused by normal wear and tear of the plating. In use, the protective iron plating wears through, developing a pit or maybe a crack in the plating. Once there is a pit/crack, the interior copper is exposed and rapidly erodes away, as solder (especially lead-free solder) has a solvent effect on pure copper, dissolving the inner copper until the plating caves in!

How to improve tip life? In general, lead-free alloys have a higher Sn (tin) content which is much more destructive to iron plating, especially at higher temperatures. We estimate that solderers using lead-free alloys will go through tips up to 3 times faster than leaded alloys. Here is a common sense list of things you can do to extend tip life:
  • Turn down the heat! Probably the best advice I can give. As stated before, using lead-free soldering along with elevated temperatures is a recipe for shorter tip life.
  • Do not apply pressure to the soldering iron: being heavy handed with your iron can cause stress cracks in the iron plating.
  • Do not scrub the lead: Any type of abrasion can increase your chances of scratching the plating
  • Do NOT use tips as screwdrivers!
  • With lead-free solder use Brass Wool Cleaner: Yes, it's slightly abrasive, but lead-free alloys and fluxes may require a bit more to properly clean. With Tin-Lead alloys, use a wet sulfer-free sponge (NO household sponges).
  • Apply solder to the joint or lead, not the tip: In other words, use a solder-bridge, as constant application of wire solder to the tip may create a pit.
  • Cover working end with solder during idle periods: the solder coating will oxide, rather than the iron plating.
  • Turn off iron when not in use: less heat equals less oxidation
  • Do NOT use pliers to change tips: Especially PACE tip-heater cartridges - it's a sure way to crush the heater core within the cartridge. Use our Tip Tool or Tip Removal Pad instead.
  • Use soldering iron system with “Setback” and/or “Auto-Off” feature: Our Instant SetBack (ISB) Tool Stand automatically “sets-back” temperature to 350F/176C when placed in the Stand.

The burn-in or conditioning cycle for the SensaTemp handpieces (not tips used in SensaTemp handieces) are the result of the construction of SensaTemp heaters. To manufacture SensaTemp heaters, we machine out a brass bobbin, a coated heater wire is wound around the bobbin, then attached to a platinum RTD sensor in the front. It's the coated heater wire which is the cause of the burn-in procedure: when initially heated up, the wire burns off the coating  -- you'll notice smoke and an odor after initial heat-up. It's totally normal and the smell/smoke goes away within a short period of time, never to occur again. We recommend burning in the handpiece heaters because there is a very slight chance (probably 1 in 200) of a short in the wire winding if someone turns a brand new heater up to 900F. The vast majority of reported heater shorts occur with our TJ-70 ThermoJet Hot Air Jet Handpiece, probably because that tool is designed to be used at max temperature (900F). In contrast, the IntelliHeat and AccuDrive Tip Heater Cartridges are not burned in, they are tested. They are placed in a test fixture which fully energizes the tip for about 5 seconds, enough time for the tip to reach solder melt temperatures.

Concerning lead times, you can blame your local distributor for that! Our standard lead times to Distributors for all PACE products is 2 weeks after receipt of order. This a hard and fast policy of PACE's. We expect distributors to do the one thing distributors are supposed to do: STOCK OUR PRODUCTS! But many distributors do not. If a distributor takes more than 16 days to ship PACE products or tips, it's very simple: You can bet they are not stocking tips and are only ordering AFTER you have placed your PO! If you order directly from PACE's website, we generally ship within 2-4 days. Yes, we have occasional lead time issues, and if a production problem occurs (like the original defective batch of ADS/AccuDrive tips), then we are at fault for the delay. But we have been pretty steady on lead times since late August, so I'm going to blame the distributors! ;)

Finally, we manufacture all soldering products (including tips) and bench top rework stations in Vass, North Carolina, while higher end BGA Rework Equipment and Fume Extractors are manufactured in Elkridge MD (where I am located). PACE is one of the last major manufacturers of soldering irons made in the USA (Weller: made in Mexico & Germany; Hakko: made in China; Metcal: Made in China).

Whew, I'm going to bed!

Best,

Aaron

 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #924 on: February 07, 2019, 12:29:13 pm »
The reason for the burn-in procedure for SensaTemp heaters was described in this post.
As for the tips being tested, there were some early reviews of the ADS-200 that mentioned some tips were D.O.A. I imagine Pace is eager to make sure that any production problems are caught before delivery to customers.

I wasn't questioning the Sensatemp conditioning but was curious about the Intelliheat being burned in at the factory and the reasons for it. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 


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