Author Topic: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200  (Read 124443 times)

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Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1250 on: February 21, 2020, 10:27:07 am »
At least with an IR proximity sensor, I could see it getting fouled with flux residue and dust, or potentially get confused by the IR radiation from the tip itself. That and being potentially sensitive to tip geometry.
The module is mounted on side so shouldn't see any residue falling on it.  And it has a sensitivity adjustment so maybe it can be move further from the tip. Good thing is it cost less than a dollar.
Gravity isn't the only way things spread, for example smoke, which is exactly what I was thinking of. And spatter.
 

Offline exe

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1251 on: February 21, 2020, 01:42:48 pm »
It's a very interesting discussion. I thought that the most robust way to activate set back feature is with a microswitch pressed with the weight of the handpiece. JBC uses, afaik, electrical contact with the cartridge, which I'd assume a less reliable solution, but haven't heard any complains about it.

Cheap stations use a "tilt sensor", which is just a ball shorting the contacts. I had bad experience with this one, the station used to go into sleep when soldering for a long time without shaking the handpiece.

My current cheap soldering station seems to have an accelerometer (haven't looked inside yet, as it "just works"). It work surprisingly well, I'd say it's way too good: it often wakes up from the slightest touch of the cable, or from a tiny vibration of the table.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1252 on: February 21, 2020, 03:08:56 pm »
It's a very interesting discussion. I thought that the most robust way to activate set back feature is with a microswitch pressed with the weight of the handpiece. JBC uses, afaik, electrical contact with the cartridge, which I'd assume a less reliable solution, but haven't heard any complains about it.
According to this thread, the tip shorts the stand to ground, one signal for the tip exchange part, another for the handle rest. Now, when the handle is in the stand, the tip isn’t touching anything, so what I assume they mean is that it’s shorting to the metal ring at the end of the handle. (This also explains a question I had wondered, namely why JBC puts a metal ring at the end of the handle, where it can get hot and burn you if you touch it.)
 

Offline ian_682

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1253 on: February 25, 2020, 01:11:05 pm »
Well, looks like they dropped a new video on their facebook. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=yEt1Cky0khU
 
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Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1254 on: February 25, 2020, 02:55:54 pm »
Great video Aaron/Pace the MT200s are looking great. That music is kind of catchy as well.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oszilloskopen: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1255 on: February 25, 2020, 03:00:29 pm »
Now all we need is for Pace to make an affordable vacuum desoldering iron! :D
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1256 on: February 25, 2020, 04:36:11 pm »
Now all we need is for Pace to make an affordable vacuum desoldering iron! :D

Yep! Someone from a local recording studio contacted me to refurbish a mixing console. It has approx. 1,200 capacitors which need to be replaced. I've been thinking about one of those Chinese made contraptions. I don't receive enough of that type of work to invest in a better quality station.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 04:47:58 pm by labjr »
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1257 on: February 25, 2020, 06:09:00 pm »
1200 capacitors, because faders, pots, sockets and switches never fail ;D.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oszilloskopen: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1258 on: February 25, 2020, 06:35:03 pm »
There are also 30 or so ICs on each input channel strip. But I think they're socketed. TG
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1259 on: February 25, 2020, 06:42:24 pm »
How fast can you do 1200 caps?
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oszilloskopen: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1260 on: February 25, 2020, 07:02:22 pm »
Depends how do it. If you pull all the modules and do it assembly line style, it will probably take a couple days with a desoldering gun. Not something I want to do with solder wick.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1261 on: February 25, 2020, 08:53:02 pm »
Now all we need is for Pace to make an affordable vacuum desoldering iron! :D

Yep! Someone from a local recording studio contacted me to refurbish a mixing console. It has approx. 1,200 capacitors which need to be replaced. I've been thinking about one of those Chinese made contraptions. I don't receive enough of that type of work to invest in a better quality station.
Sounds to me like you have 2400 good reasons to invest in a desoldering iron now!  ;D

Given how fickle desoldering stations can be on their best days, I think the Chinese ones are asking for nothing but frustration. They might be OK for hobbyist use, but definitely not for professional use, especially not for large projects like that one!
 

Offline mcovington

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1262 on: February 26, 2020, 02:13:53 am »
Are those 1,200 capacitors all electrolytic?  If they're plastic film or ceramic, why do they need replacing?  As someone else pointed out, the most failure-prone parts in a mixing console are probably fader pots and connectors.
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1263 on: February 26, 2020, 02:32:19 am »
Are those 1,200 capacitors all electrolytic?  If they're plastic film or ceramic, why do they need replacing?  As someone else pointed out, the most failure-prone parts in a mixing console are probably fader pots and connectors.


Mostly electrolytic capacitors. The problem is some channels don't work. And you can't troubleshoot the modules once your pull them. So best to rebuild them by changing all capacitors and IC's. The IC's are pretty easy because they're socketed. And newer production opamp IC's will improve the sound and can even be upgraded to higher performance parts. There are also analog multiplexer ICs used for some of the switching. Fader pots can be changed separately if neccessary. But again, I can't troubleshoot with a scope, so I think it's best to change everything that may fail vs driving back and forth multiple times.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 02:44:00 am by labjr »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1264 on: February 26, 2020, 03:33:22 am »
That is almost certainly not the best approach, considering the monumental effort of replacing thousands of components. Instead, grab the modules for the bad channels and methodically fix and test those component by component, so you identify what components have failed, so you can make intelligent choices about what components to replace prophylactically on the good channels. If this means doing some diagnostics and repairs onsite, then do that.

Replacing everything all at once robs you of critical information about what failed. And there’s always the risk of making things worse.


P.S. Don’t be so sure that replacing old op-amps with “better” ones will improve the sound. Those circuits may behave worse with the “better” op-amps, because they weren’t designed for an op-amp with those characteristics, and could end up oscillating, for example.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1265 on: February 26, 2020, 03:50:09 am »
There are more than two dozen op-amps in each input channel strip. I'm not changing one part at a time. Anything could have failed. Replacement op-amps are 50 cents. Upgraded Burr Brown IC's are $2.50. They've been tested in this console and work well. So it's up to the customer if they want to spend the extra to upgrade. 

Replacing everything is methodical. The console is 35 years old. If I just fix one issue on a board it will fail again, and it will be my fault. So I'm being thorough. That's the way I work.
 

Offline wr4t

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1266 on: February 26, 2020, 10:55:53 pm »
Are tweezers of any use in removing DIP packages, or are they strictly used for SMT?  It would seem some of the broad tips could be use to remove small DIPs  (8,14,16 pin) either from the top side, or by pulling from the top with another tool and  applying heat to the bottom with the tweezers.  Will they open wide enough for this to work?
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1267 on: February 26, 2020, 11:58:58 pm »
Are tweezers of any use in removing DIP packages, or are they strictly used for SMT?  It would seem some of the broad tips could be use to remove small DIPs  (8,14,16 pin) either from the top side, or by pulling from the top with another tool and  applying heat to the bottom with the tweezers.  Will they open wide enough for this to work?

If it was a wide enough tip I don't see why it wouldn't work, you might want to touch up the legs with some fresh solder though prior to reflow to make extracting smoother. I would say Paces vacuum desoldering handpiece would be safer for through hole especially if encountering difficult removals which requires more dwell time. If the part is not being reused it probably doesn't matter.

Pace also sells a larger tweezer the TT-65 for the Intelliheat stations including some 25mm blades. It does SOIC, SOJ, SIMM, LCC/LCCC, PLCC, PQFP packages and general SMD components. I thought that this handpiece would be ideal if you ever needed custom tips.





« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 02:50:00 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oszilloskopen: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1268 on: February 27, 2020, 04:43:49 am »
Great video Aaron/Pace the MT200s are looking great. That music is kind of catchy as well.


Nice.
They so need a dual version of the ADS200 base station now.
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1269 on: February 27, 2020, 05:33:41 am »
Nice. They so need a dual version of the ADS200 base station now.

Three channels with vacuum is even better Dave ;D. They said in the video "for Accudrive compatible stations" a plural has been used so it's officially happening.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oszilloskopen: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline wr4t

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1270 on: February 27, 2020, 01:07:41 pm »

I would say Paces vacuum desoldering handpiece would be safer for through hole especially if encountering difficult removals which requires more dwell time. If the part is not being reused it probably doesn't matter.


Back in the 90's our employer had Pace vacuum removal gear, it worked on most DIP packages, but if you were removing large DIPs and plated through holes were sized with no clearance you could not get all the solder out of the holes.  The holes were too tight to rock the leads as well. More often than not you had to clip the leads and remove one pin at a time.  This was particularly a problem with the pins on the power and ground planes or boards that were thicker than 62 mills.  The process for a large DIP like a 68000 CPU was quite time consuming.  The SX-100 looks much simpler to clean and maintain then what we had back then, but I don't know if this technology actually works any better than what we had 30 years ago.

There is simply no comparison between my old Weller WTCP from that era and the ADS 200 I received for Christmas but not sure that applies to vacuum removal gear. Oh, and the tweezers are a fraction of the cost of the vacuum station & handpiece. ;D
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 01:29:47 pm by wr4t »
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1271 on: February 27, 2020, 04:41:23 pm »
One thing Pace did with the newer vacuum desoldering tips is add a fluted end to improve flow into the trap. But otherwise the laws of physics haven't changed, if you jam pins or legs in tight it's hard to remove without damage while the joint is sweated.

There is a bit of crossover in the Pace tool range. You can do smd removal with the SX100 with pick tips that utilize the vacuum, plus it has flat faced desoldering tips for track and pad cleaning. So it's not just solely for through hole. The TP100 mini tweezer has a pick tool built in as well.

On the TD200 you can get a lot of bang for buck with just a large chisel. I tested it out initially by removing small through hole components by heating both legs at once. That said, brute force isn't without risk, if the legs are slightly formed of clinched it requires a lot more force which combined with heat is where damage can occur. For vacuum desoldering you can take your time and get a bit more feedback. Just my thoughts on it anyway.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oszilloskopen: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1272 on: February 27, 2020, 04:54:11 pm »
Yup! But I've now chiseled my way into a parts surplus I'll never escape..  :-DD
 

Offline dkggpeters

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Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1274 on: March 02, 2020, 06:10:45 pm »
It's about a hundred more than their previous model. From what I see more power, adjustment, aluminum legs, new instant setback stand and a few more smd tips in the series.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oszilloskopen: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 


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