PCBWay "advanced PCB" quality?

[[Chrille]]

Hi,

I would like to know if any of you guys (or girls) have any experience using PCBWays's "Advanced PCB" order option?

The boards are supposed to be of higher quality than the ordinary prototype service. I like quality stuff that lasts so I am tempted to try this some time. Especially since they offer real hard gold plating (for gold fingers) and other neat options with the advanced option.

Anyone tried the hard gold finger option?

The price difference between PCBWay and for example JLCPCB is quite a lot, therefore I want to make sure that the difference in price is justified.

[tooki]

I wouldn’t expect there to be a difference in durability. It’s “advanced” in the sense of “advanced manufacturing capabilities”. So if you need a feature that isn’t available in the prototype, then you go advanced. JLCPCB offers hard gold, too, by the way. Edit: nope, see below.

[mon2]

IMHO, JLCPCB has a unique vertical and offer a solid product at fair pricing but the process restricts complex PCBs (ie. via in pad; blind & buried vias, etc.). Perhaps this will change in the future. They also hack / cross-cut our carrier strips on our PCB panels. In short, fair pricing for the products & services they provide.

How complex is your job ?

There are many other shops like Suntak / Fast Turn PCB / Fastprint / Jetpcb / Kingford / Yaxinda that offer higher grade products but you will pay a higher cost, respectively.

We have done the highest volumes with Suntak and they are a solid PCB supplier. Our minor complaint is that the silk screening could be improved but we are anal about such things. Kingford & Yaxinda have excellent silk screening support.

So varying with your needs, you may want to consider alternate shops. One conversation to note is that many shops in Asia are without company names - we were requested by one trading company for us to exchange company cards for the purpose of stating that we have an agent in Asia and vice versa. He also stated that if ever we need onsite visits for potential clients, the entire staff would greet myself as the CEO / VP of that company in China - that is the trade they requested.

So what I am saying is that, some shops may take the order but may also run across the street to a more capable shop to get the job done. Just a FYI as this does happen. We know this from past dealings where a new shop we met at the trade fair stated that they build for other PCB shops, when the primary shop is over loaded.

[Bud]

He also stated that if ever we need onsite visits for potential clients, the entire staff would greet myself as the CEO / VP of that company in China

What ? 

[[Chrille]]

I wouldn’t expect there to be a difference in durability. It’s “advanced” in the sense of “advanced manufacturing capabilities”. So if you need a feature that isn’t available in the prototype, then you go advanced. JLCPCB offers hard gold, too, by the way.

PCBWay advanced option let you choose TG170 FR-4 material which should be more suitable for rework and/or higher temp applications than your standard TG140 FR-4 if I am not mistaken? They also have options for higher board spec standards like IPC 6012 class 3 which are supposedly made to higher standards than lower spec boards.

BTW where did you get to choose hard gold when using JLCPCB? I only see HASL (lead and lead-free) and ENIG. ENIG is not the same as hard gold and if you choose ENIG the entire board will get plated with a tiny layer of gold. There is no way to get a HASL board with hard gold plating with JLCPCB. At least I have never been able to find such an option. If you know how to order HASL boards with hard gold plated edge connectors from JLCPCB please let me know!

[tooki]

I know that ENIG and hard gold aren’t the same thing, as the fact they have different names implies.

Anyhow, I think it’s the “gold fingers” option you combine with the ENIG option, as suggested by this JLCPCB rep’s reply. But I’m not 100% sure. Maybe the rep can shed more light?


As for reworkability: yes, but in your original post you talk about the board “last[ing]”, not rework.

[[Chrille]]

I know that ENIG and hard gold aren’t the same thing, as the fact they have different names implies.

Anyhow, I think it’s the “gold fingers” option you combine with the ENIG option, as suggested by this https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/making-pcbs-that-slot-edgeways-into-a-connector/msg3091734/#msg3091734]JLCPCB rep’s reply[/url]. But I’m not 100% sure. Maybe the rep can shed more light?


As for reworkability: yes, but in your original post you talk about the board “last[ing]”, not rework.

My point is that if you have a higher spec substrate like TG170 you will get a device that last longer because you have the ability to do repairs and rework with less risk of damage to the board due to heat damage.

Regarding the "gold finger" option at JLCPCB I think it's a bit misleading since the only thing it enables is for you to say that your board has edge connectors and let you choose if you want it to be chamfered or not. I tried this option and all I got was ENIG "gold fingers" (i.e. "poor mans gold fingers"). It was the same surface finish as the rest of the board. They are not hard gold plated.

[wraper]

Higher TG does not necessarily mean more durable unless you run it at high temperature. I made some copper adhesion tests and cheapest TG130 Puyan laminate from allpcb was the best, held pads about 3 times harder than TG170 shengyi laminate.

[tooki]

My point is that if you have a higher spec substrate like TG170 you will get a device that last longer because you have the ability to do repairs and rework with less risk of damage to the board due to heat damage.

I guess that’s not untrue, but whether a higher-temp board is significantly more resistant to soldering damage, I rather doubt. (Soldering temperatures are much higher than either one of the boards’ operating temperatures, and ultimately, damage is caused by bad technique, not bad PCB material.)

And besides, you probably won’t need to repair it anyway!

Regarding the "gold finger" option at JLCPCB I think it's a bit misleading since the only thing it enables is for you to say that your board has edge connectors and let you choose if you want it to be chamfered or not. I tried this option and all I got was ENIG "gold fingers" (i.e. "poor mans gold fingers"). It was the same surface finish as the rest of the board. They are not hard gold plated.

Thanks for the info.

[mon2]

ENIG will be the surface plating on the PCB. It is recommended over HASL and we have used ENIG for many years for our Halogen free & ROHS laminates.

For the edge fingers (ie. PCI / PCI Express) - you will have the option from most shops for gold flash = small amounts of gold plating OR hard gold = 5-10u" of plating or more.

The spec is up to you on the amount of hard gold plating you wish to have on such edge fingers. We supply major OEMs and pose this as an option; most reply that our designs will have a few cycles of insertion / removal out of the host PC so they are fine with gold flash. If you are working some test jig where the product will be plugged / unplugged many times over its lifetime, then select hard gold (10u" should be ample).

Do not see an option for hard gold @ JLCPCB but you can certainly get this support from Suntak / JetPCB / Fastprint / Founder PCB / Yaxinda / Kingford PCB and others.

Gold ain't cheap so keep this in mind for the costing. We use TG170 for the laminates for our builds (4L / 6L designs).

[jmelson]

Hi,

I would like to know if any of you guys (or girls) have any experience using PCBWays's "Advanced PCB" order option?

The boards are supposed to be of higher quality than the ordinary prototype service. I like quality stuff that lasts so I am tempted to try this some time.

I have had PCBway make a whole bunch of boards, and their quality seems to be VERY good.
I have had no problems.  I don't think I have had them do any gold fingers, yet.

Jon

[DIYGUY Chris]

I thought that this is about PCBWay but apparently it is JLCPCB topic! well as for PCBWay you can try the advanced option for higher quality insurance it mean by selecting this option you are activating more quality inspection process to avoid any manufacturing errors and you are getting access to higher cost processes which are not available in the prototyping stage but production capabilities will remain the same.
The same for JLCPCB, and as for JLCPCB Gold finger you can produce it just by selecting the "Gold Fingers" option and make sure that you are picking up ENIG for surface finish (otherwise the board the fingers will not be covered by Nickel since it takes the board main surface finish). Check the attached image.

By the way the ENIG "Electrical Nickel Immersion Gold" is just used in the connecting points along a PCB because of the alloy’s superior conductivity and durable liftime connection, no less no more and I can share sources about this topic as well ( the bad side of ENIG is the rework because it is not suitable for rework comparing it to HASL).

[tooki]

I thought that this is about PCBWay but apparently it is JLCPCB topic! well as for PCBWay you can try the advanced option for higher quality insurance it mean by selecting this option you are activating more quality inspection process to avoid any manufacturing errors and you are getting access to higher cost processes which are not available in the prototyping stage but production capabilities will remain the same.
The same for JLCPCB, and as for JLCPCB Gold finger you can produce it just by selecting the "Gold Fingers" option and make sure that you are picking up ENIG for surface finish (otherwise the board the fingers will not be covered by Nickel since it takes the board main surface finish). Check the attached image.

By the way the ENIG "Electrical Nickel Immersion Gold" is just used in the connecting points along a PCB because of the alloy’s superior conductivity and durable liftime connection, no less no more and I can share sources about this topic as well ( the bad side of ENIG is the rework because it is not suitable for rework comparing it to HASL).

Yeah, but no. Turns out the OP has already tried that option and said it’s NOT hard gold a few posts up:

Regarding the "gold finger" option at JLCPCB I think it's a bit misleading since the only thing it enables is for you to say that your board has edge connectors and let you choose if you want it to be chamfered or not. I tried this option and all I got was ENIG "gold fingers" (i.e. "poor mans gold fingers"). It was the same surface finish as the rest of the board. They are not hard gold plated.