Author Topic: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B  (Read 285407 times)

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Offline maheed

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #925 on: October 17, 2018, 04:09:54 pm »
csv file
 

Offline AndyBig

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #926 on: October 17, 2018, 05:08:46 pm »
In my case, the program did not want to open your file at all. When I try to open it shows an error (screenshot attached).
This was corrected by renaming the column “Footprint Description” to “Footprint”. After this, the program normally opened the file with the correct angles (a screenshot is attached). UPD: Excuse me, the angles still remain wrong. I'll try to tinker with this, find the cause.
If you open a .csv file in Exel, change something in it and save it, then you need to delete the header of the file before the name of the columns.
Regarding the column names from my experiments with .csv files:
The software of the machine requires several required fields:
- "Designator" (can also be "RefDes") - component tag, for example, R12, C6, etc.
- "MidX" (can also be "Center-X" or "Center-X (mm)") - component coordinate along the X axis.
- "MidY" (can also be "Center-Y" or "Center-Y (mm)") - component coordinate along the Y axis.
- "Rotation" - component installation angle.
- "Explanation" or "Footprint" - about them below
Optional field:
- "Layer" - component installation side. If this field is present in the file, then when opening the file, the program will ask for which side of the board to take components from the file. If you specify the bottom side, then the "Reverse X" option will be available for mirroring the coordinates along the X axis.
- "Explanation" - description of the component, it can be any value, for example, the type of housing and the value for resistors and capacitors, or the name for the chips, etc. Serves solely for the convenience of the operator. If this field is not present, then the program inserts the "Footprint" and "Comment" values ​​into the description.
- "Footprint" - the name of the body component.
- "Comment" - any description of the component, for example its face value.
Concerning the "Explanation", "Footprint" and "Comment" fields. If the file does not contain one of the two fields - "Explanation" or "Footprint", the program crashes with an error when trying to open such a file. If there is an "Explanation" field, the program takes a value for the "Comment" column in the table displayed from this field, ignoring the "Footprint" and "Comment" fields. If the "Explanation" field in the file is not present, then for the "Comment" column get the value from the "Footprint" plus "Comment" fields (if any).
Any other fields in the .csv file will simply be ignored by the machine program.
Coordinates when importing are rounded to hundredths of a millimeter.

This all refers to software version 3.11. I did not explore earlier versions.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 05:20:11 pm by AndyBig »
 
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Offline maheed

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #927 on: October 17, 2018, 05:34:16 pm »
well, you have explained it very well, but from pic still, there is a 90-degree difference in the uploaded file. when I run this program the placement of resistor( is accurate in according to the angles). but the problem comes when it places SOT23. as it is three pins package, so when I add 90-degree manually in the program then the placement becomes accurate.
 

Offline AndyBig

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #928 on: October 17, 2018, 06:51:12 pm »
I never paid attention, but now I looked - in all my files the angle also changes. However, the components are put on the board correctly.
With SOT23 - yes, I have to change the angle, but I always believed that it was because I created the component in the library in the wrong position. (By the way, changing the parameters for several components in the software of the machine is quite simple. It is necessary to select lines with these components and change the parameter in any of them. This parameter will automatically change in all other selected lines.)
As I understand it, the components must be created in the library in the position in which they are located in the feeders, standing in front of the machine.
Maybe for this there is some kind of industry standard in PCB design?
And as for a machine 0 degrees is the position from the left feeders, it immediately adds 90 degrees when importing a file. This is like a guess, I don’t understand the real reason :)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 06:54:08 pm by AndyBig »
 

Offline qihe_kim

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #929 on: October 18, 2018, 04:40:21 am »
well, you have explained it very well, but from pic still, there is a 90-degree difference in the uploaded file. when I run this program the placement of resistor( is accurate in according to the angles). but the problem comes when it places SOT23. as it is three pins package, so when I add 90-degree manually in the program then the placement becomes accurate.
Hi maheed,For most resistors and capacitors, there is 90° different between the feeder and the drawing when the components are in the left feeder.So we add 90° in the left feeder when nozzle pick up components.
 

Offline bverstee

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #930 on: October 22, 2018, 03:06:19 pm »
The TVM802A arrived this morning.

Doing a detailed video blog about it, starting with the arrival!
Will update this webpage as well: https://www.bytedelight.com/?page_id=3298



« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 03:09:00 pm by bverstee »
 
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Offline AndyBig

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #931 on: October 22, 2018, 04:44:35 pm »
bverstee, congratulations! :)
 

Offline bverstee

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #932 on: October 24, 2018, 04:13:05 pm »
Uncrating the huge machine:
 
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Offline qihe_kim

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #933 on: October 27, 2018, 06:46:06 am »
@bverstee
Hello,thank you for choosing our TVM802A machine. The video you made is very good. :-+ We have professional after-sales technical support,if you have any doubt with using machine,can connect us.
We will also work hard to perfect our machines, and finally thank you for choosing our machines again.
 

Offline alekssandr

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #934 on: April 05, 2019, 09:54:50 am »
Hello!

Can I ask? Add to the camera the gradation of the ruler on the camera in order to more accurately position the components and not by eye. I have now drawn a gradation pencil straight on the monitor, but it spoils my monitor.




Thank! I hope they hear me.
 
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Offline AndyBig

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #935 on: April 05, 2019, 01:03:44 pm »
I join the request to add rulers to the camera screen relative to the center. This is very lacking. The photo above is mine, I pasted an adhesive tape with rulers on the screen, but they interfere in other tasks.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 01:05:58 pm by AndyBig »
 
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Offline ubbut

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #936 on: April 05, 2019, 04:28:55 pm »
I join the request to add rulers to the camera screen relative to the center. This is very lacking. The photo above is mine, I pasted an adhesive tape with rulers on the screen, but they interfere in other tasks.

What are you using this for?
 

Offline AndyBig

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #937 on: April 05, 2019, 04:36:12 pm »
What are you using this for?
For example, when calibrating feeders and when searching Fiducial Marks on boards. Rulers allow to more accurately assess the position of the object under the camera.
 

Offline Pinkus

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #938 on: April 05, 2019, 05:31:19 pm »
to bad bverstee stopped showing any progress with the machine he purchased. It would have been interesting to see his progress and how the machine performs.
 

Offline ubbut

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #939 on: April 05, 2019, 06:00:54 pm »
I still don't get it ;) Does not matter..  I guess we just have different approaches to calibrating feeders and finding fiducials.

An other thing I don't understand: Why can I not use the down camera to calibrate IC-Stack locations? It's disabled in software (3.09)


Also: Does anyone know how a I can disable the use of both nozzles simultanously? While it looks cool when working, if one of the parts causes problems, it will drop both parts. Then tries to pick up both again, only to fail again and then drop both. This is repeated until you press stop. I often have parts all over the place because of this..
 

Offline alekssandr

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #940 on: April 09, 2019, 08:07:52 pm »

After very accurately calibrating the upper chamber with respect to the nozzles, it is very convenient to calibrate the Left Stack, Back Stack and IC Stack with the camera, but without gradation on the camera one has to guess about the positioning accuracy. The gradation function is optional, and is required only for a very accurate Stack positioning, in the extreme case the gradation function can be implemented to be disabled in the settings, I think it is quite simple to implement at the software level.

Thank!
 

Offline ubbut

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #941 on: April 09, 2019, 08:51:57 pm »
and IC Stack with the camera

Can I ask you which software version you have? In my version one can not calibrate the IC stack with the camera for some reason. thanks
 

Offline alekssandr

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #942 on: April 12, 2019, 08:11:40 pm »
V3.15, at the moment I also have no vision mode in IC Stack. But the point Vision or Nozzle is present, which means that in the near future it will become available, I believe in it).

Attached image.
 

Offline HHaase

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #943 on: April 20, 2019, 03:05:23 pm »
Just popping in to give a more long-term report on mine,  been running it close to two year now I think, and have run a few thousand boards through it.   My boards are really nothing complex at all.   Only 3-4 unique parts at most, up to about 75 total placements on average.   Mainly rows of passives, LED's, things like that.  Occasionally some QFP's and various bodied transistors/rectifiers.   But basically I just place 1206 resistors, reel after reel, about 50-100 board sets per month.

First things is, the feeder situation is a serious pain in the neck.  Paper reels aren't too bad now, since I've come up with a 3D printed insert into the feeder bank,  but the springs that come from the factory can be annoying at best.  They were the biggest hurdle I've had to overcome.    But I still struggle with embossed plastic carrier tape.  Since I don't use that many parts with the plastic tape I haven't worked too hard at a solution yet.  I'll get around to another insert design for plastic carrier tape eventually. 

The pin-prick for tape advance,  what a nightmare.   I've had issues with this since the machine was new.  Busted about a half dozen pins as it gets caught on stuff, mainly due to the plastic carrier tape.  Since I started using those inserts for paper tape I haven't broken a pin.   I'm still having regular issues with the pin sensor, it basically doesn't work at all anymore.  Machine still runs but extremely slowly as the software adds a delay of about 1.5 seconds when it advances the tape.  Just e-mailed Qihe about this one as I really need to get my cycle times back to where they were.  My most common board went from a cycle time of about 2 minutes to around 5.3 minutes.    I also find using the 1/2 nozzle setting causes more feeder issues than its worth.   So I just use a single advance now all the time.  Reliability to me is more important than speed. 

Trays, trays are easy.  I've done some 3D printed ones to fit specific parts.   I'm thinking about some kind of clamp to hold full sized trays but I don't have to use those very often.  So the original metal tray, or my printed ones, tend to be sufficient.  Since it avoids the issues with the pin-prick advance system I tend to never have issues with tray parts.

Otherwise the machine seems to be running very solid for me now.   Sure, it's slowed down due to that pin sensor, but it's finally at the point I can just put in a board, press the button, and walk away for a bit.  If I can get that pin sensor solved, and get plastic carrier tape to feed reliably, I'd be pretty happy with it.  However I do look forward to when finances justify something with more normal feeders. 

 

Offline AndyBig

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #944 on: April 20, 2019, 03:31:16 pm »
But I still struggle with embossed plastic carrier tape.  Since I don't use that many parts with the plastic tape I haven't worked too hard at a solution yet.  I'll get around to another insert design for plastic carrier tape eventually.
Do you mean similar plastic tapes like black in the photo? I have no problems with such tapes.
In general, I had some minor problems with the feeders - from time to time the driving pin did not come back up, remained in the tape. Sometimes the weakening of the pressure springs helped to solve that problem. But fundamentally, I decided this problem by hanging all the reels on the aluminum tube. Without it, the reels are quite hard to rotate, especially when the tape comes to an end. And on this axis they rotate very easily. And now the pin has ceased to get stuck in the tape :)
 

Offline HHaase

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #945 on: April 20, 2019, 03:56:33 pm »
Not a bad idea with using a rod/tube to hold the reels, I may try that.   

But yes, those are the tape style I have trouble with.   They don't advance properly, get mangled by the pin, and parts go flying all over the place.

-Hans
 

Offline AndyBig

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #946 on: April 20, 2019, 04:35:59 pm »
I then do not know what to say. I have such tapes from the very beginning work fine, and 8 mm and 12 mm with different components.
Maybe you have one of the screws loosened and the edge of the tape falls between the base and the washer and gets stuck there? I drew a sketchy tape in the holder (in section).
 

Offline ttt

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #947 on: April 28, 2019, 08:57:35 am »
Not a bad idea with using a rod/tube to hold the reels, I may try that.   

With the reels propped up using a rod my sticky prick needle issues are a thing of the past, so I highly recommend it. Weird that they don't ship this with the machine. Note that in my case just a rigid rod did not help: I have to prop the rod up with some cardboard scraps so the rod actually touches the ceiling of center holes of my reels. All my reels seem to have different center hole dimensions.

But yes, those are the tape style I have trouble with.   They don't advance properly, get mangled by the pin, and parts go flying all over the place.

I had the same issue but in my case it was simply because the prick needle was not aligned perfectly with the hole pattern. It was off by like 0.2mm or so. The default setting is set up for paper tapes, not plastic ones. Play around with the "PrickCorrect" setting for your reels, Y axis for the left stack and X axis for the back stack. If it catches correctly once it should not mangle the tape at all anymore. The manual talks about this in length in chapter 9.6, though it does not read well...
 
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Offline true

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #948 on: May 04, 2019, 09:35:07 pm »
I ordered one of these from QiHe a while ago, finally getting it up and running. What a mistake this has been.

1. Getting the order originally was a pain. They mis-declared pricing on the invoice so I had to spend more in duties to get this imported. When I contacted them they sent me an itemized, but still incorrect invoice.

2. My left and right head rotations seem to be just barely out compared to one another, so parts are always crooked. There doesn't seem to be any way to adjust this. With vision it improves but it's still off which is strange. Most of my designs are art / presentation type designs so if I am doing one of these I need to be very careful.

3. Which brings me to documentation. I fought for several hours trying to get QFPs to work, turns out there's a setting that the manual tells me to reference a section that doesn't exist that affects recognition for vision. As for the manual, there isn't anything digital, only an outdated stapled together paper book that is very poorly translated and has outright omissions, inaccuracies and references to non-existant sections.

4. Homing isn't accurate at all. Need to readjust a bunch of things every time I turn this unit on. I understood there would be some time waste in a unit like this but this is beyond frustrating.

5. I ordered some other stuff through them, figured it was OK and has been in the box. Well I go to open the box and it's not OK. Sure, my mistake but it was safer in the box. Having missing parts that we expressly discussed they would send is disappointing, and is now stopping me from going into production until I spend more elsewhere to get this resolved.

6. Emails to them only result in a response of "send us pictures and video" - the questions are is there updated documentation, and what is the latest software?

Does anyone have updated documentation for this unit? Anything digital? What about the latest software, does it fix anything notable? I'm on 3.13 right now.

I haven't experienced a broken advance pin yet, where would I find a replacement? QiHe seems to be worthless to contact.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 09:36:57 pm by true »
 

Offline bverstee

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Re: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B
« Reply #949 on: May 11, 2019, 11:31:30 am »
to bad bverstee stopped showing any progress with the machine he purchased. It would have been interesting to see his progress and how the machine performs.

I haven't, I only needed more time because of all the work during the last months.
Finally I decided to close my webshop for just over a week to catch up on some things, and started working on the machine again.

Videos are coming!
 


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