Author Topic: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders  (Read 17240 times)

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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2019, 10:56:14 pm »
The best 'rule' is "Never Assume", what it means.   
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Offline DaughenbaughTopic starter

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2019, 08:02:28 pm »
We purchased and have received two SMT660s.  We are just starting to play with one of them.  I will update this thread with our experience.

I love to hear all that xdave has done with his.  We are very interested in using some of our in-house software developers to do what xdave has described as far as modifying the .NET WinForms code - especially the down facing camera and the library functions. 

xdave - we would love to get in contact with you for some help on this front.  You can contact us at info@aed.pro

 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2019, 07:10:57 am »
Does anyone here owns a SMT550. I'm asking them about the height of the machine without the alarm and the legs so I can be sure it could go through my 80 cm door but answer is not that clear and convincing). Stated as 90×114×90cm (which won't go through the door). I know if I lay it sideways, probably it could but if and only if the alarm and the legs can be taken out (and shave off more than 10 cm of the 90 cm).

Offline VladaAca

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2019, 09:43:39 pm »
Does anyone here owns a SMT550.
From my conversation with  SMT it looks like You will be the first who buy SMT550 in USA.
 
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Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2019, 07:55:10 am »
Does anyone here owns a SMT550.
From my conversation with  SMT it looks like You will be the first who buy SMT550 in USA.
Dropping by their SZ office although they only have SMT660 and SMT880 there. But, it will give a good insight on the machine and the software. No more buying a machine without actually seeing one with my eyes. I like the fact they admit the machines are from Beijing Huawei Guochuang.

Offline VladaAca

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2019, 08:38:16 am »
They told me they are the manufacturer even though i didn't ask them. SMT550 sell only in China, they have no machines in Europe or US. Those who bought SMT660 are mostly satisfied.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2019, 05:24:32 am »
Just came back from Shenzhen and managed to visit Huawei Beijing Guochang's branch office in Shenzhen (manufacturer of the SMT550/SMT660/SMT880, Wenzhou YingXing is the legitimate distributor outside of China as clarified by them). It's a tiny office further away from the Shenzhen city center while their factory is in Beijing. Took a Didi (like your Uber and Grab elsewhere in the world) from the nearest metro station for the first time but was going into wrong building (YingXing sales representative gave an image of the large building next to it!  :palm:). I was fortunate that a SMT550 has just arrived at this place although it is not being set up yet. And YES, I managed to measure the height of the SMT550   :-+. Without the feet and alarm light, it is around 77.5 cm which gives me around 2.5 cm of margin to go through my 80 cm door. Moving on the machine, it is a very solid and well built machine. Even the bottom is fully enclosed with no dangling and exposed wires. It could do down to 0201 like it's bigger brother SMT660 and SMT880 when the electric feeder (also Yamaha but I'm not sure what series is being used) is being used. It also supports the usual pneumatic Yamaha CL feeder up to 50 8mm. It also has rails and can be cascaded to other machine. Maximum component height is 8 mm. The software is exactly same like the SMT660 and SMT880. So, it's easy to migrate between different sizes of the machines. Here are some shot of the SMT550 (un-powered though).

Rather than running the place solely as a showroom only and collecting dust, they actually run small PCBA services to the local market. There are 2 SMT880, 1 SMT660 and a SMT460 (obsolete and no longer offered and it is surprisingly as huge as the SMT880 and SMT660!). They cascaded a SMT880 and SMT660 in a line together with a semi-automatic stencil printer. They were assembling some ESP32 board that has components down to 0402, SOT-23-6, SOT-23, QFN-48 0.4mm. Throughout my 1 hour there, I took a look at those assembled panels from time to time to see how the placement accuracy fare. They are very accurate and spot on.

I did drop by NEPCON Shenzhen 2019 too on this trip, although machine from ZhengBang are cheaper but it comes with less feeder and belt configuration (ZB3545TP, not published yet on anywhere at this time of writing). ZhengBang used to OEM from Huawei Beijing Guochang for the past few years but starting from 2019, they are on their own. Charmhigh was also there were showcasing their new huge machine (6 and 8 head that uses electronic feeder) which are totally out of my budget and of course that space constraint. Other machines on display are from the regular big boys (Yamaha, Panasonic, Juki, Autronik) are again out of my scope and requirements.

I will probably get the SMT550 to replace my current machine. At USD7500, it definitely has better features than many machine even those priced well above it. Ball screw with pneumatic and electronics feeder, rails. At least, both Huawei Beijing Guochang and YingXing are upfront about their business relationship and that is fine with me. As long I get the proper support, I am more than happy. The flight, visa and accommodation only cost me around USD300 from Malaysia to Shenzhen and I'm glad I took the short trip!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 05:32:17 am by 48X24X48X »
 
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2019, 02:01:02 am »
$300 well spent.   A similar trip for me is about $1500.    On the face of it they look quite resonably built.  It would really come down the software i suppose.



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Offline latidae

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2019, 07:52:27 am »
I brought directly from Hua Wei Guochang, I find them more honest then their so-called partner YX. I now own a T6SG, a 6 head version. I have no problems with this machine, works fine, goes down to 0201 with no problem (you have to use electric feeder instead of pnuematic ones for 0201) So i'll say this is one of the better chinese made machines. However that being said, i do hope they improve on the software UI/UX...

James
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2019, 01:26:49 pm »
I brought directly from Hua Wei Guochang, I find them more honest then their so-called partner YX. I now own a T6SG, a 6 head version. I have no problems with this machine, works fine, goes down to 0201 with no problem (you have to use electric feeder instead of pnuematic ones for 0201) So i'll say this is one of the better chinese made machines. However that being said, i do hope they improve on the software UI/UX...

James

You are based in MY? Quo of Huawei Guochang did mention about you. I didn't know that we could buy direct from them and I didn't ask him as it sounds like an awkward question knowing that I came through the contact of YX.

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2019, 12:29:58 am »
I brought directly from Hua Wei Guochang, I find them more honest then their so-called partner YX. I now own a T6SG, a 6 head version. I have no problems with this machine, works fine, goes down to 0201 with no problem (you have to use electric feeder instead of pnuematic ones for 0201) So i'll say this is one of the better chinese made machines. However that being said, i do hope they improve on the software UI/UX...

James

Thats interesting..   I Checked up YX, and the street address on their website, doe not match teh big flash building displayed on their website.   Those kind of thigns get you instantly disqualified in my purchasing decisions..  If they are operating out of a differnet building, and the product is fine, its a non issue.. But pretending like that is just dumb.   A quick google maps look up and your done.

Have you got a contact for Hua Wei Guochang

On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline VladaAca

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2019, 08:31:07 am »
"I brought directly from Hua Wei Guochang, I find them more honest then their so-called partner YX."

Have You some contact email address? I try with form from web site  but they don't answer.
 

Offline JPlocher

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2019, 06:16:20 am »
I notice that Robotdigg is also selling these machines - for a slight premium and without the "default" bundled feeder package that XY throws in...
https://www.robotdigg.com/product/1185/China-new-generation-Pick-and-Place-Machine-with-Electric-Feeders

Anyone have experience there?

  -John
 

Offline Styno

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2019, 10:53:55 am »
My question : I would like to know if the SMTxxx soft automatically rotate or not polarized components
depending of the feeder location, front or rear.
I don't have the answer but I would certainly hope your P&P would do that, otherwise I consider it a complete piece of junk. Compensating rotation based on feeder location (front or back) should not be a user problem to solve.
 
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Offline jmelson

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2019, 08:35:57 pm »
My question : I would like to know if the SMTxxx soft automatically rotate or not polarized components
depending of the feeder location, front or rear.
I don't have the answer but I would certainly hope your P&P would do that, otherwise I consider it a complete piece of junk. Compensating rotation based on feeder location (front or back) should not be a user problem to solve.
The $100K Philips CSM-84 that I have does not do this, either.  If you are going to put a feeder on the back rail, you have to add/subtract 180 degrees to/from the rotation angle you would use on the front rail.  As long as you are well aware of this, it is no problem.

Jon
 
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Offline Mangozac

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2019, 10:21:41 pm »
The $100K Philips CSM-84 that I have does not do this, either.  If you are going to put a feeder on the back rail, you have to add/subtract 180 degrees to/from the rotation angle you would use on the front rail.  As long as you are well aware of this, it is no problem.
But I would imagine this is encoded in the pick location data rather than the component location centroids data?
 
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Offline JMG

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2021, 02:44:50 am »
Reviving this thread to see how the last few years of ownership experience has been with the SMT550.
I need a machine pretty quickly and am considering a used Samsung CP45V neo or the SMT550. I have a few questions about the Chinese machine


Does it come with 50 feeders or is that Chinese to English sales talk and you have to supply your own feeders?
If it comes with feeders, what size and how many or supplied?
Any issues crop up over the last few years?
How reliably can it place large lqfp parts with 0.5mm pitch?

I have a couple of boards that are 12x14 inches. Is there a way to work with these without using the conveyer, which is limited to boards less than 8 inches wide?

Thanks guys.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2021, 05:26:07 am »
Quote
Does it come with 50 feeders or is that Chinese to English sales talk and you have to supply your own feeders?
If it comes with feeders, what size and how many or supplied?
Supplier/reseller dependent question, you need to ask them personally. Just make sure if you want the electric feeder bank, ask for it, it's not installed by default but the pictures makes you think it's part of the deal.

Quote
Any issues crop up over the last few years?
One issue I have over a 6 months ownership is one of the valve for the feeder is malfunction. They sent me a replacement and it's an easy fix. Air supply has to be good, clean and strong. I initially have some issue with certain feeder not turning on but after adding better filter and draining air compressor vapor water more frequently, the problem goes away. Other than that, I'm already on the latest software now that has improved a lot over the old version (auto feeder location pick-up, footprint library, etc).

Quote
How reliably can it place large lqfp parts with 0.5mm pitch?
I did 0.4 mm DFN and 0.5 mm LQFP-48 & QFN-48 which is fine but haven't use any larger QFP though.

12x14 inches is tough. I just measured, I doubt it can fit because of the large HD camera sitting at the right hand corner. If you don't use the conveyor belt, you can arbitrary place a board anywhere on the machine. If there's 1 weakness on the machine, it has to be this, the PCB size limitation. I don't have any too large board so I'm okay but I can imagine someone having bigger boards.

Offline jmelson

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2021, 07:06:24 pm »
Reviving this thread to see how the last few years of ownership experience has been with the SMT550.
I need a machine pretty quickly and am considering a used Samsung CP45V neo or the SMT550. I have a few questions about the Chinese machine
I have a Quad QSA30A, which is quite similar to a Samsung CP30.  The Quad uses Quad electronic feeders instead of
Samsung's air-driven mechanical feeders.  I think the CP30 through CP40 used the same generic software, the CP45 uses a newer generation, as well as the flip-mirror flying bottom vision scheme.

Well, there was a LOT wrong with the QSA30 I bought at auction, and it took me some time to figure out the software.
Now that I have it mostly figured out, though, it is quite amazing.  My previous machine was a Philips CSM84, which was VERY basic.  The software on the QSA30 is much more advanced.  It runs on a PC with Windows 95, so you can back up files, load files from external sources, etc.  The GUI allows pretty easy setup and testing of fiducial pickup, board array setup and component test picking.  You get a pop up box that shows the alignment adjustment.

When you create a new board file, it pulls in the component vision profiles from the part library.  Once you have created your part library, it is quite easy.  (I'm still having to enter the new parts as I come to them.)

The Samsung software gives up after several mispicks of the same part, but then remembers what was missed on that board.  After finishing the board, you fix the issue(s) and press start, and it places all the missed parts.  That is VERY cool!

I have not used the Chinese machines, but don't think their error recovery is as good as these mainstream commercial machines.  I had No PROBLEM at all getting parts for my old QSA30 machine from the far East, so CP45 parts should also be easy to get for some time into the future.  And, the brokers there did not charge me an arm and a leg for these parts.

Jon
 

Offline JMG

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2021, 01:12:10 am »
Thank you for your reply.

So I took the plunge and ordered a SMT550 this week. It was a terrible experience and I'm having some regrets already. I was pushed in to buying it on alibaba and I could not pay by credit card. I tried 2 different cards and only when the total was split did a payment go through, after that nothing. So I had to incur massive PayPal fees to pay the remaining balance. I think when this was all said and done I'm in to about $500 in fees.
I was under the impression the machine came with 50 feeders per the alibaba ad but apparently it does not, it comes with 15x 8mm feeders. So I ordered 5x more 8mm, 5x 12mm, 5x 16mm. Add in $60 to configure for 110V and the grand total before fees was $8760.

If I had bought the ebay listed machine, from ebay, I could have had that machine with 50 feeders, per the listing, for $7950 done. I tried to get them to match this price but they would not move on price at all. Terrible customer service already, including blaming my bank for the card issues even though the bank did not see any transaction attempt on their end except the single one that went through over maybe a dozen separate tries. I'm now looking at a 45 day processing window before they ship even though the ad says they are in stock.

I will wait for further comments until I see shipping info and figure out how I'm going to get this from the nearest port of entry to my address.
 

Offline JMG

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2021, 01:57:37 am »
There is a port of entry 50 miles away from me but oh no, we cant possibly use that one so lets go to Chicago, about a 5 hour drive each way.  |O
 

Offline ArthurRobin

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2021, 02:11:52 am »
i got something new
OLD SCHOOL
QIHE QM62 pnp machine
VIDEO

place 0201 with flying camrea  45 feeders available

II got quotation much cheaper , $12500



share some news post on their website:


https://www.qhsmt.com/news/2021-cnll-exhibition-ningbo-show-has-come-to-a-45719299.html


2021 CNLL Exhibition(NINGBO)show Has Come To A Successful Conclusion!

- May 17, 2021 -

  video

https://youtu.be/CuyqaieabeY



Qihe joined in 2021 Ningbo International Lighting Exhibition.

Our pnp machines are very popular with customers.



The following information is the exhibition details:

Exhibition: 2021 Ningbo International Lighting Exhibition

Booth Account: 6A-06

Exhibition Date: 2021-5-13 to 2021-5-15

Location:  Ningbo International Convention and Exhibition Center .

This exhibition is a professional and international lighting  fair certified by UFI.



Our sales team met face to face with our customers in Ningbo and were looking forward to our future cooperation.

We hope to cooperate with the customers' in-depth discussion, the development of long-term business relations.



We cordially invite you to visit or email us and would like to show you our new design .


« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 02:34:50 am by ArthurRobin »
 

Offline Styno

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Re: Pick & Place with conveyor, 0201, CL Feeders
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2021, 08:51:55 am »
Excellent video demonstrating the superior capabilities of the QM62 PnP machine mr. Kim aka ArthurRobin! So X, Y and Z and the camera leds are working is what I learned from it. Congratulations.

 :clap:
 


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