Shame on Rochester Electronics

[jrs45]

We ordered some production parts on 7/1, and never heard from them.  I followed up twice in the meantime.  No response.

Today they told me they canceled the order, because they "lost" our order from 7/1 and are only now getting around to entering it into the system.  And they have since sold the parts to someone else.

And why did they not respond to my emails on 7/6 and 7/7?  Because they are "a few days behind on emails".

This is absolutely ridiculous. 

And to top it off, all email order communication (updates, shipping, etc.) is done referencing an internal sales order number that is not available for the customer to see, *anywhere*.  Orders listed on the website use a totally different numbering system.And since they don't answer their phone OR email, so there is no way to match order updates via email to actual orders.

/rant

[schmitt trigger]

Rochester has the users of obsolete or close to obsolete components, literally grabbed by their balls.

Is either that or go to Alibaba or Ebay.

When someone has that much power, there is no real incentive to have a good customer support department.

[jrs45]

"literally" by the balls?  Oy.

Apparently.  I hadn't used them for much before, but this particular part is a modern, active component.  Now I have to resort to win-source.

[TimFox]

"Once you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."  American military doctrine.

[Mangozac]

Now I have to resort to win-source.

I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a spoon. Good luck

[48X24X48X]

Bought TI's ADS1115 from them about a month ago. Stated in stock but shipped so late like 2 weeks with status update to customer. It's very apparent they don't hold the stocks in hand. The customer service also don't think your email is important. Website is ancient with no status on order or even shipping information.

[Kean]

I've used them once in 2019 for a discontinued part (TLE4917), and had a pretty good experience.  To be honest as an Australian it was pretty painless compared to dealing with some other American or Japanese companies.  The order was confirmed by a human within 6 hours, and shipped within two business days.  It was a slightly more "manual" ordering experience than from places like Digikey or Mouser, but that isn't surprising.  And the FedEx shipping charge wasn't ridiculously inflated either.

They haven't had stock of anything else I've been after, and I've checked a few things there lately.  I wouldn't be surprised if they're reasonably busy with the current component shortages, and even possibly getting more into brokering of hard to get parts for their big customers in addition to their normal speciality of obsolete parts.  Plenty of companies are short staffed or working from home right now which can definitely slow down or screw up internal communication.

Still not an excuse for OPs experience.  I'd be P'd for sure.

[AJ3G]

I do not think this is just Rochester. i just completed a design and generated a BoM which at the time had all the components available from two of the larger distributors. It took 4 months to get through the final design review and ready to start ordering parts for production. In this time, the vendors have gone from having ample stock, to none, and lead time on parts which are pretty jelly bean are now showing 25 - 52 weeks lead times.

I think this is just a sign of the immediate times. In the years I have been doing this, I have never encountered such a parts acquisition problem. I would hazard to bet, I have spent more time sourcing parts than I did on the original design. 

Rich

[dmills]

Yea sourcing for a new product is an absolute shit show right now.

Hopefully it will improve before my current prototype gets to production, he says having just paid winsource <Spit!> $8ea for what is rightly a $0.5 LDO (Got 6 of the buggers on each board as well!).

TI quoting year plus leadtimes on essentially everything, Microchip, same shit different day, NXP same, ST have got essentially NOTHING in stock, and even the connector manufacturers seem to be having problems!

[NorthGuy]

TI quoting year plus leadtimes on essentially everything, Microchip, same shit different day, NXP same, ST have got essentially NOTHING in stock, and even the connector manufacturers seem to be having problems!

Meanwhile, the companies have record breaking revenues for Q2 2021. What the hell are they selling?

[james_s]

Meanwhile, the companies have record breaking revenues for Q2 2021. What the hell are they selling?

Military? Medical? Brokers? A lot of stuff being out of stock could be because of supply disruptions or it could be because of heavy sales.

[jrs45]

TI quoting year plus leadtimes on essentially everything, Microchip, same shit different day, NXP same, ST have got essentially NOTHING in stock, and even the connector manufacturers seem to be having problems!

Meanwhile, the companies have record breaking revenues for Q2 2021. What the hell are they selling?

Selling all of their inventory to hoarding companies will certainly create record breaking revenue.  However, once it all runs out, Q2 may not be so rosy.

[48X24X48X]

My regular PCBA company mentioned that big clients made multiple more times quantity of products to ensure their stock while small clients mostly don't have cash to make any at all.

[AJ3G]

I for one can confirm this. We are looking to use Reflow Ovens to get a design ready, and bypass the PCB house constructing the board and placing the components. We are unable to get quantities of parts to the point where pick and place is even practical. As a result, we are just going to wait for the back ordered parts to trickle in and build when they do.

From my observation this problem also seems to found its way into passives. I have had to change passive components around at least a half a dozen times because someone swoops in and orders all remaining stock.

Beginning to remind me of Big Oil and how they control inventory at the demise of the consumer.

Rich

[Simon]

We ordered and have not heard much, holding up our production.

[tszaboo]

Now I have to resort to win-source.

I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a spoon. Good luck

Those despicable evil bastards. You ask a quote from them, they tell you that the parts that are 50 cents are available for 10 dollars. you order them, and they come back asking for 20 because in the meantime someone else asked about the part, and was willing to pay more.
A quote is legally binding.

[Simon]

I'm not sure a quote is legally binding. Even an order is not if they repay the money. Lot's of us discovered that on here when a test company put a wrong price on a product and then 6 months later cancelled everyone's order when they finally realized the mistake.

[Siwastaja]

A quote is legally binding.

I Am Not A Lawyer, but no, a quote usually isn't simply legally binding. Depending on jurisdiction, and depending on the case, you might have a case of being able to get some compensation though, but that would be far from all quotes automatically being legally binding.

[jrs45]

A quote isn't legally binding, generally.  And good luck enforcing it overseas anyway.

There is an interesting rule called the "Cost to Cover" though.  Basically if an order is accepted, but they don't deliver, or are late, you have the right to get your parts elsewhere and the vendor has to pay the difference.  It's relatively unknown but it is a real thing, part of the UCC.  There are subtleties and exceptions, of course.

Years ago I flexed this against a PCB assembler who tried to jack up the price after accepting the order.

[TimFox]

Nor am I a lawyer, but early in my career in the private sector I learned that purchase orders are considered to be a type of contract (they must be numbered), and that accepting a purchase order was a legal thing.  Please refer to the UCC or a lawyer for clarification.

[Siwastaja]

Yes, but a quote is generally not a purchase order, so it doesn't bind either party.

Although, if quotes were legally binding, the situation would be better overall because you couldn't ask for quotes to get pricing, and stupid companies would be forced to do business normally, i.e., just publish the prices.

[TimFox]

In my experience (in more normal times), a purchase order (with number) would be issued by my company, referencing a specific quotation from the vendor, and the vendor would accept the purchase order.
Things got interesting when, for many reasons, the vendor could not meet the delivery date in the purchase order.

[Simon]

An order in itself cannot be binding. The vendor has to have at least agreed to the price, I've had orders show up in my in box as though I had made some sort of agreement. I guess it gets messy and dealing abroad does not really help matters.

Apparently we got the story too that they are busy and the parts will ship tomorrow. I guess with all the shortages it's not surprising they may be busy. I just don't understand why they have 10's of 1'000's of parts at 1/3 the Digi key price when Digi key have low stock and the part is current. we needed less than 2000 but the minimum order of 11'343 parts (random number) almost looked like a hassle free bargain for several orders to come. Maybe not.

[TimFox]

What I remember from my employed days was that "acceptance" of the purchase order by the vendor completed the contract.  I don't think we bothered with this on orders from Digi-Key, etc., but certainly for major items we bought and sold.  We did reference the quotation with price and delivery in the purchase order.

[Simon]

Technically wen you walk into a shop and buy a packet of crisps for 25p you have formed a contract. can a contract be revoked? all contracts have terms. If it is legal for Rochester to stipulate in their terms that they can change their mind up to the point they ship they may well legally be able to - rescind - the contract.

[TimFox]

I'm not sure that an immediate transaction of 25p one way and a packet of crisps the other way with nothing in writing constitutes a contract in common law or the commercial code, but I could be wrong.
The essential bits to make a valid enforceable contract are: (from https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/contract )
Mutual assent, expressed by a valid offer and acceptance.
Adequate consideration (each party receives something of value, e.g., payment in cash one way and delivery of goods or service the other way).
Capacity (both parties are of legal age and sound mind).
Legality (no hit-man contract can be enforced).
Normally, a contract is entered into in advance of its being fulfilled (e.g., when I order something to be delivered in 14 days, and paid for within 30 days after that).

[Simon]

shop keeper displays goods and price - willingness to sell
Buyer takes crisps to counter and hands over money - willingness to buy
Shop keeper allows you to leave with the goods and keeps the money - contract was executed.

It's a silly example but it's the same sort of basis. Now your tuck shop owner does not give you a piece of paper full of terms that state that until you leave their premises they can rush over to you, give you your money back and take the crisps off you. Larger sales are a bit more complicated.

[TimFox]

With respect to the topic, the vendor normally writes terms of the contract from his side (found in the boilerplate), which typically contain weasel-phrases such as "force majeure" to avoid liability for failure to perform on time.
If the contract has binding terms for price and delivery, the vendor can be made to pay "general", "consequential", "reliance", or "expectation" damages, or to do "specific performance" (do what they were originally supposed to do).
Breach of contract is a civil case, not criminal.  Wimpy's offer "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" is a contract, but verbal contracts are worth the paper they are written on.

[tszaboo]

What I remember from my employed days was that "acceptance" of the purchase order by the vendor completed the contract.  I don't think we bothered with this on orders from Digi-Key, etc., but certainly for major items we bought and sold.  We did reference the quotation with price and delivery in the purchase order.

Exactly. If I have a quote, and I send a purchase order, that makes a contract. They don't have to accept a purchase order if it is according to the quote, the fact that it was delivered is enough.
That's why companies use FAX even now. It produces something on paper at both sides, and you can produce evidence that the paper is received.

Good example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_rule

[Simon]

to make it binding I bet they have to acknowledge the order. That is why you here nothing.

[Mangozac]

I ordered from Rochester a few weeks ago. Never heard another peep since the order acknowledgement and was getting nervous, so I emailed them for an update. Had a response with a Fedex tracking number not 10 minutes later. The package is due in next week. Can't really complain about that.

[blundar]

Rochester gave me a 6week+ runaround on some Infineon parts.  It was ridiculous.  I was emailing and calling them every other day, getting little or not response.

THEN

Tracking number, parts show up, appear to be in good shape. 

Horrible to deal with, came through with otherwise unobtanium parts.  I don't think they'll ever be on my list of preferred vendors but I'd buy from them again anticipating that "in stock" is a loose term that doesn't mean I'll see the parts ship right away.

[Simon]

It was the same for us. I think they just have more work than usual due to the situation but are not dealing with it very well. You were lucky to find infineon parts at all, they are hard at the best of times and I now actively avoid using them.

[blundar]

Infineon make such lovely power parts, though...  Sigh.

[Simon]

Infineon make such lovely power parts, though...  Sigh.

So just make sure you need a million at time.... not sure what you can do about the obsolescence though.