Author Topic: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?  (Read 10033 times)

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Offline Reckless

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2020, 03:04:46 pm »
If it was covnection heating I might have been interested.  Infrared is uneven heat in my experience.


according to the manufacturer, it is a combination of infrared and hot air:
" This machine selects the intelligent level sirocco and rapid infrared heating technology controlling, equipped with special design wind wheel"
https://www.puhuit.com/main/page_products_t960e_reflow_oven.html
The vendor has shipped it, I had my doubts as I only paid $300. They sold out shortly after I posted about it, did anyone else here buy one off Amazon?

I bought two the next day for a heat curing application.  Should be arriving today.  If we have time we may test/profile it for smt reflow. 
 

Offline wheedal

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2020, 12:22:30 am »
anyone get their T960E from the amazon deal?
 

Offline Reckless

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2020, 03:58:13 am »
Yes, I got mine.  Haven't had a chance to use it.  Did you get one?
 

Offline wheedal

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2020, 05:20:31 am »
shipping delayed, but fingers crossed
 

Offline Reckless

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2020, 05:49:44 am »
It will come but be prepared for a 40 amp 110V outlet.  It has a huge thick cord with a monstrous plug.  I thought they would have put a 20 amp cord and setup a delay not to turn on all heaters at once to keep peak current low.  If you don't get it I have extras in chicago.  It won't work for my curing application as opening is a hair to small.  May end up returning one.
 

Offline sam512bb

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2020, 05:34:47 pm »
It will come but be prepared for a 40 amp 110V outlet.  It has a huge thick cord with a monstrous plug.  I thought they would have put a 20 amp cord and setup a delay not to turn on all heaters at once to keep peak current low.  If you don't get it I have extras in chicago.  It won't work for my curing application as opening is a hair to small.  May end up returning one.

Hmmm... something is a bit odd here.  My 960 (ordered directly from Puhui) was wired for 3-phase power and so I had to modify things to accommodate single phase 220VAC... and I believe I have a 30A breaker.  If the unit you have is setup for 110/120VAC 40A... then your site wiring is going to need attention, as wire needed to accommodate 40A is going to be rather beefy...

Also, my T960 can draw as much as 4500W... so at 120VAC this would require a minimum current of 37.5A or... 20A with 220V (single phase).  So your comment about a timed delay of the turn on of the elements may not trip the breaker, but is electrically risky and would not be a wise or insurance-safe option/solution. 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 05:39:19 pm by sam512bb »
 

Offline Reckless

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2020, 07:08:58 pm »
May I ask how much you paid for your unit?  I remember these used to run almost $4000 shipped 3-4 years ago. 

Im pretty sure it can be rewired to 220V easily.  It comes with a huge thick whip which we used to test our machine at 110V. 

If I was manufacturer I would have programmed the micro to turn on one heat zone at a time and then used a regular 15A or 20A plug.  4500W divide by 5 900W per heat zone peak.  I would have made it 3-4 heat zones all on top (no bottom) using 15A plug so more people in USA will want to use it.  The only drawback would be it would take awhile to warm up.  I think Neoden did something like this and called it a smart oven. 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 07:18:15 pm by Reckless »
 

Offline dirtcooker

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2020, 02:18:17 am »
anyone get their T960E from the amazon deal?

Mine arrived. It's set up for 120vac single phase (or 3-phase). I wired it to a 40A breaker. With switches 1, 2, and 3 on, it pulls 45A. I'd like to power it from 240vac, but that does not appear to be an option.

I may take it apart to see if the heaters can be rewired in series for 240vac operation. If not, I'll have to use a transformer.
 

Offline Reckless

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2020, 03:27:49 am »
You got different results than me but we didn't measure current.  heat zones 1,2,3,4 worked on 30 amp 110V circuit. My electrician was over yesterday he said we can switch to 230V 3 phase.  He could tell it was chinese by how power was not properly locked down and mounted inside panel in one part of the oven.  He will be back in a week, he is helping install a 480V electrical heater.

Anybody looking for one of these in chicago I have two extra for sale.
 

Offline dirtcooker

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2020, 02:12:33 pm »
My electrician was over yesterday he said we can switch to 230V 3 phase. 
If you can offer any more info on that I would be grateful. I have written to support@puhuit.com, and will post their response here, if any.
 

Offline Reckless

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2020, 03:43:55 pm »
I will ask next time he is over.  He comes randomly every few weeks as a side job. 
 

Offline trampas

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2020, 06:44:55 pm »
Does anyone have a T960 reflow working are they worth $1500?
 

Offline Reckless

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2020, 12:06:06 am »
It depends.  It does work for prototype level and has very basic construction.  I personally wouldnt pay $1500 for it but it does work for my application.   The most I'd pay is $300 as that what it feels like its worth.  It has a smaller opening 0.5" or so. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 12:36:41 am by Reckless »
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2020, 12:30:33 am »
A business will get less customer returns reflowing PCBs in a toaster oven which are then inspected by an engineer, verses a business paying someone in asia to reflow PCBs using high end professional equipment but then inspected by someone on minimum wage.


Note: if a toaster oven is too small, a small commercial pizza oven can be a good upgrade.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 12:33:17 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 
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Offline trampas

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2020, 11:55:23 am »
Yea I have a convection oven I was going to convert to 220V and use for reflow, however if I can buy something for around $2k that works I would save my time. 

As far as speed goes, most of my boards are so dense with parts the pick and place takes longer than the reflow for a panel.  So I do not need a conveyor system. 

I do have a T962A which I have spent days reworking and tweaking and I still can not get it work reasonably well.  My conclusion was IR is not good for reflow, as that board color, component color, etc all make a difference.  Soldering a tin color USB connector is just out of the question, will burn rest of board before it gets heat to reflow.

On the oven upgrade, I have been putting it off as one of my requirements is external vent. Hence I have been putting off cutting holes and installing vent system.
 

Offline SMTech

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2020, 09:29:55 am »


I do have a T962A which I have spent days reworking and tweaking and I still can not get it work reasonably well.  My conclusion was IR is not good for reflow, as that board color, component color, etc all make a difference.  Soldering a tin color USB connector is just out of the question, will burn rest of board before it gets heat to reflow.


IR is certainly not ideal for reflow but its the T962 itself that's the issue here, we ran a conveyor based IR reflow oven for years, a significant proportion of heat transfer is not from IR the oven just needs to take advantage of that. Of course it will still have it limitations compared to forced air or vapor phase, small DIY reflow toaster ovens can also have a significant amount of emissive IR heat transfer too.
 

Online asmi

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2020, 06:28:25 pm »
I purchased ZB2520HL oven about half a year ago, and so far very happy with results. I don't know exactly how they do it, but so far I had absolutely no issues with plastic melting, even Mini-Circuits ADP-2-1+ parts which became darker after reflow in my previous oven (modified T962), in new oven were just fine. On the product description they say it uses a combination of IR and hot air, but I don't really know as I didn't disassemble the oven. One thing I will say is that out-of-box firmware is MUCH better than what it was in T962, so much so that I use it with no problems to report (other than they have a rather weird way of configuring reflow profile).

Offline dirtcooker

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2020, 07:20:09 pm »
My electrician was over yesterday he said we can switch to 230V 3 phase. 
If you can offer any more info on that I would be grateful. I have written to support@puhuit.com, and will post their response here, if any.

I got this response from Puhuit:
Sorry you can not converted to 240V
What can you do is that you buy a converter to convert your 240V to 110V
that is the easiest way

> I purchased the 110vac version of the T960E.
> Is there a way to wire it for 240 vac single phase?
> Can the machine be converted to 240 vac single phase?
> I would be grateful if you could send me a schematic diagram for this machine.


 

Offline wheedal

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2020, 04:56:16 pm »
Yay, the T960E finally came --for whatever reason they had a difficult time getting the shipper / pickup at warehouse coordinated.  anyway, a month later and it showed, and its awesome for the price.  I looked at the elements to see if I could wire them in series to get 240 operation, but its almost like they welded in the sections.  Its a weird design for sure.  Not sure why they cheaped out there --the rest of the oven is reasonably fabricated, just when you take off the heater covers do you see the warts.  Not sure what you would do when you have to service the elements, guess its disposable?
 

Offline j_omega

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2023, 10:48:08 pm »
They buy from others and rebadge them.  If you need tiny little help or simple part they want $5000+ registeration fee on $1000 Torch brand ovens (ive had a couple).  They are the butt of jokes for the various smt salesmen as they dont make anything on their own but pretend.  Once you need a custom part you are screwed.  I almost bought one of their ovens used and it needed a blower fan.  They refused to help or even point where they sourced their equipment.  Since they buy from different vendors some of their stuff is decent chinese grade.  Some companies try to make their money after sales, some want to solve your problem as efficiently as possible.  I imagine their equipment works but my smt guys have no respect for them. 

I found this thread looking while looking around for a reflow oven and am curious to know more about this statement. I have been looking at a Manncorp MC-301. Is this a re-branded unit and if so, who is the original manufacturer?
 

Offline Reckless

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2023, 06:39:46 am »
They buy from others and rebadge them.  If you need tiny little help or simple part they want $5000+ registeration fee on $1000 Torch brand ovens (ive had a couple).  They are the butt of jokes for the various smt salesmen as they dont make anything on their own but pretend.  Once you need a custom part you are screwed.  I almost bought one of their ovens used and it needed a blower fan.  They refused to help or even point where they sourced their equipment.  Since they buy from different vendors some of their stuff is decent chinese grade.  Some companies try to make their money after sales, some want to solve your problem as efficiently as possible.  I imagine their equipment works but my smt guys have no respect for them. 

I found this thread looking while looking around for a reflow oven and am curious to know more about this statement. I have been looking at a Manncorp MC-301. Is this a re-branded unit and if so, who is the original manufacturer?

Torch
 

Offline gedass2000

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2023, 01:18:53 pm »
I ordered another owen:
https://www.esdshop.eu/pretavovacia-pec-hr-10-industry-4.0/
First one works just perfect and precisesly.I have version with exhaust unit and automatic door opening.
I don't know about 110V version.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2023, 01:20:41 pm by gedass2000 »
 

Offline law

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2023, 02:42:07 am »
I have the Torch T200C+, which seems to be the Torch version of the Manncorp MC-301.
Its OK.
I have a lot of trouble with it Torching my connectors.
It does say it is a convection oven, and it does have convection fans but all 6 heating elements are on the top and when they fire up they really like to melt connectors (Molex PicoClasp series) on a lead-free profile.
I wound up making a baffle shield out of an upside down aluminium BBQ tray, with some holes poked and cut out of it.
That works a bit better, but I still get some yellowing of the connectors.
Note the Torch does not have the side 'boost' elements that the Manncorp seems to have.

The control interface of the Torch was beyond garbage and I wound up replacing all the control electronics and interface with a Controleo3.
 

Offline peter-h

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Re: Reflow oven ~$5k recommendations and experience?
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2023, 08:47:37 am »
Quote
I've had discolored (overheated) connectors

I don't think that issue was fully solved until vapour reflow came in, but it does depend on the connectors.

I use that $200 chinese oven (probably called T962) which has various threads here and is all over Ebay etc (in both original and counterfeit versions) and bought that $150 replacement controller for it, modded the fan to point outwards, added a flexible duct to go to a window, all the usual mods you find online, has two sensors so I attach the controlling one to a piece of PCB of same colour, and for prototyping is works perfectly.

But it does a bit of damage (only borderline) to SMT connectors like these



I use 60/40 solder paste of course; much better soldering and the temp is lower. Unleaded (SAC305) solder is another big factor driving vapour reflow. But nobody needs unleaded for prototyping.

Convection would of course help but is a complicated modification. But with large connectors only vapour reflow does it properly.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 08:51:48 am by peter-h »
Z80 Z180 Z280 Z8 S8 8031 8051 H8/300 H8/500 80x86 90S1200 32F417
 


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