SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines

[mrpackethead]

I have used taobao agents but for high value item I would be very concerned about money transfers, fees, reliable shipping/handling, export rules, etc.

Thres ali-pay and most take pay-pal as well, so you have resonable recourse..     The options there for you, choose your poision..   

[Smallsmt]

I want to start a Kickstarter campain in January to sell a small pick & place machine for small office or hobby use.

It's not a replacement for our current machines. We do a special "Maker" machine like the 3d printer industry did before.

The machine will use professional software operating on windows and linux.
It will have one bottom camera and one top camera and should not be bigger than 400x400 mm.
The feeder design will be very simple but it's possible to upgrade by the user by adding new modules or mechanics.
We will support strips, loose parts, drag feeder, and pneumatic feeders.
But it's a kit style based machine you need to build or buy parts to add but the software will support everything from the base.
It should be possible to 3d print parts and use to extend the machine.

The target price will be 2500 to 3000USD and the machine will not be a toy!
Component range 0402 up and 0.5mm component pitch supported.
Dual head design including nozzle changer but only one placement head.
Second head can be used for dispenser or other tools.

I like to receive comments about this idea.

Regards
Michael

[TJ232]

Do you know the price of a TMV802A machine? I will think twice about.

[Smallsmt]

Do you know the price of a TMV802A machine? I will think twice about.

Yes I know but if you want to reach Makers and small business user the price need to be low.

The machine need to work reliable and it's highly optimized build so we can lower the price.
But we need minimum 100 machine orders to start so we want to use Kickstarter to launch the product.

[mrpackethead]

I want to start a Kickstarter campain in January to sell a small pick & place machine for small office or hobby use.

It's not a replacement for our current machines. We do a special "Maker" machine like the 3d printer industry did before.

The machine will use professional software operating on windows and linux.
It will have one bottom camera and one top camera and should not be bigger than 400x400 mm.
The feeder design will be very simple but it's possible to upgrade by the user by adding new modules or mechanics.
We will support strips, loose parts, drag feeder, and pneumatic feeders.
But it's a kit style based machine you need to build or buy parts to add but the software will support everything from the base.
It should be possible to 3d print parts and use to extend the machine.

The target price will be 2500 to 3000USD and the machine will not be a toy!
Component range 0402 up and 0.5mm component pitch supported.
Dual head design including nozzle changer but only one placement head.
Second head can be used for dispenser or other tools.

I like to receive comments about this idea.

Regards
Michael

Great idea, though i think you might have been beaten in this race. The folks at openpnp are doing this now and they are spending about $1000 per machine.

[48X24X48X]

The target price will be 2500 to 3000USD and the machine will not be a toy!
Component range 0402 up and 0.5mm component pitch supported.
Dual head design including nozzle changer but only one placement head.
Second head can be used for dispenser or other tools.

Looks like the latest stripped down machine by Yushengtech.
Comes with dispenser option, single head with drag feeder.
Selling starts at RMB17800.

[Smallsmt]

Great idea, though i think you might have been beaten in this race. The folks at openpnp are doing this now and they are spending about $1000 per machine.

No this machine will use linear guides good quality machine for low price.
And it's assembled ready to use!

Second important thing we use software including vision system to detect bend pins and wrong parts.
It's fast based on C++ and multi platform possible.

The machine controller use 9 axis motion controller having s-curve compensation.
Head controller is a sub circuit and Feeder controller if added too. You receive a modular system from very small to big possible.

[TJ232]

Do you know the price of a TMV802A machine? I will think twice about.

Yes I know but if you want to reach Makers and small business user the price need to be low.

The machine need to work reliable and it's highly optimized build so we can lower the price.
But we need minimum 100 machine orders to start so we want to use Kickstarter to launch the product.

I think you understand me wrong. You proposed price for such a Kit is to high. Look around and you will see why.

[Smallsmt]

I understand the  machine is fully assembled and tested and we use better components than TVM machine so why do you think the price is too high?

[mrpackethead]

your target market is already effectivey doing what your talking about and building their own machiens for $1000-$1500 and accurately placing 0402s.   They are using Opensource software that is avaiaible today.. and you can tweak and change to your own needs.

All of the parts that you would put in a kit are easily obtainable, the communitys are already doing bulk buys on things like cameras, motors, nozzles, feeders and rails.   This community will bypass you the moment they can.   They all have plenty of time to spend to save $0.50

And you might say the quality of the parts is not up to it, but the results speak for themselves.

Micheal if you are doing this as a commercial venture, it will burn you, because your margins will not be sufficient to sustain it. If you are doing it as a community project, why not just join in what is already happening.

For Small business's,  $10k, is not a lot of money to spend on a new machine, and that market is being well served by the likes of QiHE and Neoden.  You'll see lots of great reports about their gear here

But if you do go for it. Good luck.

[Smallsmt]

Andrew you will see in a few month's what niece piece of software we designed and our competitors take the piece of the cake we can't reach now.
Our spindle machines are above neoden and quihe so we have no problem to sell.
Our current software is better too.
But our new software will be outstanding and you receive features only the professional machine have.
And we will support a range of machines our V1 and V2 controller machines included.

Thank you for your comments.

[mrpackethead]

Andrew you will see in a few month's what niece piece of software we designed and our competitors take the piece of the cake we can't reach now.

Is it opensource?  Beuase if its not, teh commmunity you are chasing will be put off it.    This is the interent. I'll belive it when it see it.   

Our spindle machines are above neoden and quihe so we have no problem to sell.

Whats a spindle machine?   I dont' see any SmallSMT customers making comments here, but plenty of Qihe and Neoden customers. 

Our current software is better too.

In your not so humble opinion. Its closed soure vs open source which looses 20 points before you start.

But our new software will be outstanding and you receive features only the professional machine have.

Are your current machiens not professional?

And we will support a range of machines our V1 and V2 controller machines included.

Your machines included machines?  What do you mean.

Thank you for your comments.

Thankyou for yours too.

[sparkswillfly]

If you can beat tvm802a on price ($3400 shipped) and features/quality I am a potential buyer.  It is most attractive machine to me now.

Anything in $10k range I would want to see removable feeders, 4 heads, and conveyer. 

[mrpackethead]

If you can beat tvm802a on price ($3400 shipped) and features/quality I am a potential buyer.  It is most attractive machine to me now.

Anything in $10k range I would want to see removable feeders, 4 heads, and conveyer.

The QiHe 920 right now, seems to be the best machine in teh sub $10k.. Yeah, its short of a conveyor, but its got good feeders, which is the nemesis of the low cost PNP.    The software is solid, teh manuals are written well.. its four head..  Its about $7000

[harry4516]

The QiHe 920 right now, seems to be the best machine in teh sub $10k.. Yeah, its short of a conveyor, but its got good feeders, which is the nemesis of the low cost PNP.    The software is solid, teh manuals are written well.. its four head..  Its about $7000

how can you know that. Surprisingly there is not any video on youtube, nothing in the web exept some offers on aliexpress.
Many people talk about the 920 but nobody really knows anything,

I am also interested in this machine, but when I purchased the 802 in April, I had a phone call to QiHe and they recommended the 802 because the 920 was not "fully tested" at this time. I am searching the web daily for more information from 920 users, but nothing to find.

[mrpackethead]

Many people talk about the 920 but nobody really knows anything,

The first 920's are in the wild now.    Check the post you made a few days ago..
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/pick-place-machinetvm920/msg971595/#msg971595

heres a video




More videos to follow.

[Gary.M]

Many people talk about the 920 but nobody really knows anything,

The first 920's are in the wild now.    Check the post you made a few days ago..
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/pick-place-machinetvm920/msg971595/#msg971595

heres a video




More videos to follow.

I'm getting tired of the tit for tat arguing in this thread.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[sparkswillfly]

If you can beat tvm802a on price ($3400 shipped) and features/quality I am a potential buyer.  It is most attractive machine to me now.

Anything in $10k range I would want to see removable feeders, 4 heads, and conveyer.

The QiHe 920 right now, seems to be the best machine in teh sub $10k.. Yeah, its short of a conveyor, but its got good feeders, which is the nemesis of the low cost PNP.    The software is solid, teh manuals are written well.. its four head..  Its about $7000

Yes the chmt530p and some borey machines are also using those pneumatic feeder blocks.  Seems like they may be available to yusheng/smallsmt.  Borey does have a model with conveyer, but I think it is a quite big.

[mrpackethead]

Yes the chmt530p and some borey machines are also using those pneumatic feeder blocks.  Seems like they may be available to yusheng/smallsmt.  Borey does have a model with conveyer, but I think it is a quite big.

The pnematic feeder blocks are easy to get, just check on Ali/Taobao. You also need the pnematics etc, but its all pretty straeigth forward, and theres any number of people making Yamaha CL feeder clones,  I've got about 200 of them running on a real yamaha machine and they run just fine, no more/less problem with them that the 'real' yamaha ones.

Having said all that, i think that the solution for the entry level machines, lies with no 'feeder' machines, where you can just dump loose parts into simple trays and the machine will just pick them up.

[TJ232]

If you can beat tvm802a on price ($3400 shipped) and features/quality I am a potential buyer.  It is most attractive machine to me now.

Anything in $10k range I would want to see removable feeders, 4 heads, and conveyer.

This is exactly what I was saying above. The idea is good but he need to establish a clear market target for his products. Will be more than happy to see more alternatives on this niche market.

By the way, I have seen customers pictures and youtube videos for any imaginable PNP machine, from all the usual Chinese one, Neoden, etc, etc to VisionBot and LitePlacer kits but none from SmallSMT.  Is anybody out there who is really using this type of machines and can tell us how they are working in a real small-scale production environment? I really want to see more about as they are looking well-built machines.



 

[Smallsmt]

Ok back to the topic thank you for all comments.

I know there are many people who wan'ts to build their own machine and use Open source software.
This customer group don't wan't to spend to much money to buy a  machine.
But over time they spend a lot of money because they need to buy improved parts or the result is not as they assumed.
So I decided to sell a base machine for office use to meet the needs for prototyping jobs.
The main difference to our bigger machines is it is easy to upgrade because we use and open design like a LEGO brick.
We have limited feeder count but the user can extend or change.

Our VP-2X00HP and VP-2X00D machines are fixed systems you receive a lot of feeder lines and big working areas.
Finally we receive 3 machine lines to sell:   BASIC  this new machine  /  MID  VP2X00D Belt  /  HIGH  VP-2X00HP spindle + servo motors + linear guidings

Read the user postings about other machines carefully!
- You need to run at 100% speed for small parts because vibrations are less (weak mechanical design!)
- Ambient light change affect my vision system
- I need to recalibrate my machine if I want reach the precision (calibration changing in short time!)
....

@mrpackethead

Your machines included machines?  What do you mean.

The new software use a hardware abstraction layer driver model to support different machine controllers.

We have 2 different machine controllers now the old V1 (2 head) and the current V2 up to 4 head controller plus 22 pneumatic feeder control.
The new V3 controller has CAN bus to control extensions
- more pnp heads
- up to 128 pneumatic push feeder
- CAN bus feeders
- retro fitting of old pnp machines possible
So it can be scaled from very small to big system.

[ez24]

Working video showing VP-2500D belt machine  building our head controller PCB
https://youtu.be/agjyWogQWTw

I find the videos interesting.  But I also find it strange that there are commercials in them.  Seems that this is a commercial inside of a commercial.   

Why would someone selling something via YT, set up YT to show commercials?  If I were a buyer, this would leave a bad taste in my mouth.  But I still like the videos.

[ebclr]

https://world.taobao.com/item/524360132937.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-1204845673.31.rPA0OX

[Smallsmt]

There are so many funny machine in Taobao yes but it's the same design like any other Quihe or old Neoden or Charminghigh machine.

[harry4516]

... this machine will use linear guides good quality machine for low price.
...

if you use linear guides and delivery a ready to use machine (without the need of adjustment, or only minor adjustments)
you will easily outperform any TVM802 or Neoden.

There is a video on youtube from ServoKit where two rows of 0805 Rs are placed on a double sided adhesive tape with the TVM802:


you can see that the Rs are not in a line, at least the left line. This works with 0805 and also works with 0603 bit will be a problem with 0402.
If your machine can do better it will be a winner in this price range.