Author Topic: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines  (Read 207624 times)

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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #250 on: July 03, 2017, 07:49:07 am »
@digitaldeath

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I don't agree, I think that any manufacturer that makes their machine compatible with OpenPNP will have way more customers no matter how good their original software is.

When you buy a machine you're taking the risk of having a manufacturer that doesn't support the machine adequately or that abandons the support or updates for the software once they switch to new models or even the possibility of them going out of business.

If the SmallSMT machine had compatibility with OpenPnP it would make it a really strong option to buy because it seems like their software developer will probably end up with a very good OEM software but having the ability of being able to make the machine work with OpenPnP gives you the peace of mind of being able to solve issues if the manufacturer doesn't do what you need so you're not left out in the cold.

Chinese manufacturers have difficulty understanding that concept because they feel that doing so is admitting that their software is not as good whereas us in the west look at it as an advantage over other machines and that concept doesn't even pass through our minds. It's like a PC, you can always run Linux but you're likely to stay in windows for the convenience so the same hardware and your choice of software. If you make the software really good and people use it instead if the OpenPnP having the option to do so it's a testament that the software OEM is really good and it also shows that the manufacturer is not afraid of competing against an open source solution.

If I were one of the manufacturers I would make my machines compatible immediately with OpenPnP and as a top priority.

One of the strongest reasons I'm leaning toward the TVM to buy it is just because of that potential ability.

We already support open API for our machines you can receive a communication DLL to embed in OpenPNP or any other windows / linux based development system.
The DLL for V1 and V2 controller based machines is already finished and available!


 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #251 on: July 03, 2017, 08:16:27 am »

Cross posting for blatent promotion is bad form.


@digitaldeath

Quote
I don't agree, I think that any manufacturer that makes their machine compatible with OpenPNP will have way more customers no matter how good their original software is.

When you buy a machine you're taking the risk of having a manufacturer that doesn't support the machine adequately or that abandons the support or updates for the software once they switch to new models or even the possibility of them going out of business.

If the SmallSMT machine had compatibility with OpenPnP it would make it a really strong option to buy because it seems like their software developer will probably end up with a very good OEM software but having the ability of being able to make the machine work with OpenPnP gives you the peace of mind of being able to solve issues if the manufacturer doesn't do what you need so you're not left out in the cold.

Chinese manufacturers have difficulty understanding that concept because they feel that doing so is admitting that their software is not as good whereas us in the west look at it as an advantage over other machines and that concept doesn't even pass through our minds. It's like a PC, you can always run Linux but you're likely to stay in windows for the convenience so the same hardware and your choice of software. If you make the software really good and people use it instead if the OpenPnP having the option to do so it's a testament that the software OEM is really good and it also shows that the manufacturer is not afraid of competing against an open source solution.

If I were one of the manufacturers I would make my machines compatible immediately with OpenPnP and as a top priority.

One of the strongest reasons I'm leaning toward the TVM to buy it is just because of that potential ability.

We already support open API for our machines you can receive a communication DLL to embed in OpenPNP or any other windows / linux based development system.
The DLL for V1 and V2 controller based machines is already finished and available!
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #252 on: July 03, 2017, 08:27:05 am »
I don't want to enter the TVM thread for discussion of our software topics.
 

Offline DigitalDeath

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #253 on: July 04, 2017, 03:39:03 am »
Having access to the DLLs is not the same. If you have an issue with some section that happens to be the part of the code inside the DLL then you're out of luck.
I agree that it's a step toward it but not the same as full access to being able to get out of trouble without depending on the OEM.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #254 on: July 04, 2017, 05:03:53 am »
Having access to the DLLs is not the same. If you have an issue with some section that happens to be the part of the code inside the DLL then you're out of luck.
I agree that it's a step toward it but not the same as full access to being able to get out of trouble without depending on the OEM.

And this is more of an issue when your dealing with a small company who only has a single developer.. bug fixes get pushed out, thigns change. people loose enthusisam.   
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #255 on: July 04, 2017, 06:46:13 am »
Having access to the DLLs is not the same. If you have an issue with some section that happens to be the part of the code inside the DLL then you're out of luck.
I agree that it's a step toward it but not the same as full access to being able to get out of trouble without depending on the OEM.
We supply the DLL and source code in our API!
 

Offline DigitalDeath

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #256 on: July 05, 2017, 12:35:57 pm »
Having access to the DLLs is not the same. If you have an issue with some section that happens to be the part of the code inside the DLL then you're out of luck.
I agree that it's a step toward it but not the same as full access to being able to get out of trouble without depending on the OEM.
We supply the DLL and source code in our API!

You supply the source code for the DLL itself? In other words if you take your DLLs and source code you could build your own application to control the machine?

BTW just so you know this wanting to secure a way to be able to get the machine to work in case of emergency just happened to us with some high end test equipment we bought 10 years ago.
The equipment was $240K and had a parallel port dongle for the driver software. The dongle failed and we tried to buy a new one but the manufacturer had no way to access an  old parallel dongle authorization software and no interest in updating the old software to the new USB dongles so that we could use our quarter of a million dollar machine. We ended up reverse-engineering the thing and developed our own app to drive and test with it and upgraded the hardware while doing so. That's why it's important to have ways to make sure your investment doesn't become a brick all of a sudden.
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #257 on: July 05, 2017, 01:33:47 pm »
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You supply the source code for the DLL itself? In other words if you take your DLLs and source code you could build your own application to control the machine?

Yes this is possible. We provide a small test app for the DLL to show how to use.

Because we want to adopt other machines to our VisionPlacer software too.

So it is possible to write your own driver to control custom machine using our software.
Or use our code to adopt our machines to OpenPNP or what else you like to do.

 

Offline DigitalDeath

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #258 on: July 05, 2017, 01:38:24 pm »
That's a very interesting approach.
I like that you got three ways to make it work. Your OEM application, OpenPNP and if you want your own development. That's a smart approach.
 
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Offline TJ232

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #259 on: July 06, 2017, 05:41:16 pm »
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Tomorrow is 1 July 2017. When do you think that we can see at least some Youtube Videos basic usage and setup demos for the new machines?

I am really sorry but we are still in development phase for the VP-30XX system.
The mechanical parts are ready and assembled and have already been shown at Maker Faire in Berlin.

We are still working on software and electronics.

I hope we finish soon but it's a complex development project long way to go.

The new VP-2500DP-CL32 is a good choice too!

That one looks also interesting. Looks more like a hybrid, with added pneumatic standard feeders.

So, when do you expect to have available the VP-2500DP-CL32 video presentation and demos?


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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #260 on: July 06, 2017, 09:50:50 pm »
Quote
That one looks also interesting. Looks more like a hybrid, with added pneumatic standard feeders.

So, when do you expect to have available the VP-2500DP-CL32 video presentation and demos?

Yes it's a hybrid machine to receive more feeder at less costs.

You find informations here
https://www.smallsmt.biz/cl32-pick-and-place-machine/

We add more videos soon but machine operation is similar to any VP-2500DP machine we sold before.
 

Offline harry4516

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #261 on: July 17, 2017, 09:12:13 pm »
any news about the VP3... Made in Germany ?
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #262 on: July 18, 2017, 05:34:05 am »
Hi Harry,

we are at the current state:

mechanics 100%
electronics  80%
software     95%

 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #263 on: July 18, 2017, 06:22:05 am »
Lol, the alternative logins.
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #264 on: July 18, 2017, 06:53:55 am »
Lol, the alternative logins.

The Mastermind is back  |O
 
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #265 on: July 18, 2017, 08:08:38 am »
Dont' you have 12 staff? why is this taking so long.
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #266 on: July 18, 2017, 08:39:45 am »
The development of the device is extremely expensive and the market is currently not big enough to refinance it.

So we need to go step by step but finally we receive a very good product.

 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #267 on: July 18, 2017, 08:48:20 am »
So, its expensive and there is not a market..  Mmm. thats the making of a great business.
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #268 on: July 18, 2017, 09:00:20 am »
So, its expensive and there is not a market..  Mmm. thats the making of a great business.

You should know we want to do long term business.

 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #269 on: July 18, 2017, 07:19:06 pm »
Smallsmt,

keep going and ignore Arschloch.

You have my respect
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 07:21:04 pm by IconicPCB »
 
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #270 on: July 18, 2017, 08:07:55 pm »
So, its expensive and there is not a market..  Mmm. thats the making of a great business.

You should know we want to do long term business.

I think we all want to, but how do you propose to do that..  Do you expect a market to develop?
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #271 on: July 19, 2017, 05:11:42 am »
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Do you expect a market to develop?

We expect the customer will buy modular pnp systems to be able to extend the machines on growing demands.
Second big option our machines are customizable.
And finally we deliver the features nobody has in this price range.

The skip on feeder error feature plus place remaining parts is integrated in our V3 software and available for all SMALLSMT machines.
You are able to stop the job today and continue tomorrow the software will restore the last placement state.

Feeder database containing all feeder based information.
Mapping to physical positions on machine global and placement job based.

Vision model driven part alignment with pin count and pin one detection, ambient light compensation, area detection, colour detection.

 
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #272 on: July 19, 2017, 06:59:10 am »
I added a Summer Promotion for VP-2500DP machines to our website please have a look.
 

Offline JanMan

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #273 on: July 22, 2017, 02:18:34 am »
Hi, after reading the reviews here I purchased the VP-2500DP-CL16 machine.  I sent 50% of the money to the exact person as per the quote from Michael, but the info was out of date so the money went to a guys bank account who no longer works the assembly place in China.  It took 3 weeks for the money to be returned to me and then sent to another persons personal bank account.  In the end the money got there, but slightly worrysome and shows poor communication between China and Michael.  The machine came DHL, which was not great as the web site tracking did not work (it just said it was in Ontario) and I had to call daily to find out where it was and why it was not moving.  DHL did does not have local delivery in Belleville Ontario so they passed it off to Loomis, and Loomis passed it off to a local delivery company.  This took about 3 weeks, annoying because the local company does not accept incoming calls and it seemed to sit for about a week 2Km from my place before being delivered.  The machine was well packed in a crate, nothing damaged in shipping, except one CL feeder was slightly bent, and seems to have been shipped like this.  The machine works on 120VAC (its a stepper motor version, the servo motor versions seem to need a 240VAC transformer).  The wrong cord was shipped with the machine, but I had an old computer monitor cord which fit fine. The machine needs 3 usb ports, and it needed wifi in order to download some drivers, so with a keyboard and mouse and wifi I ended up using 6 usb ports.  Sunny and Michael forgot to tell me the english manual was in the download section online, so I tried to Google translate the Chinese manual that came on a CD with the machine (this was difficult).  My machine was built with the North side CL feeders called South in software and the South side called North and the numbers on the North side go from 1 on the right to 16 on the left.  The downward looking camera is called Camera Mark, and the upward facing cameras 1 & 2 are not related to video #1 and #2.  It took me about half a day to calibrate the machine and half a day to load 20 parts and calibrate thier positions.  It took me several days to learn the software, mostly because I kept having some errors which I didn't understand, they seem to be related to nozzle vacuum pressure settings.  The manual could use some more explanation of this area, and the software error description does not point to any area in particular, I think it says "No more end Limit".  I was slightly worried that I would never get it working as the error kept stopping parts placement after the first part.  However, the machine is working now, I have assembled about 250 circuit boards with 23 parts each in the past week.  I was getting 5 clear tape breaks after 100 parts feeding (not of the same part but total parts) so a clear tape break every minute or so.  I took off all the springs and sanded down the sharp edges and this fixed the problem.  The CL feeders did not work at first, and I think they need to open and close (perhaps 20 times) to break in a bit and relieve some friction.  So I don't intend to be hard on my review, but it was pretty frustrating initially.  Overall the machine is well built, the software pretty straight forward (except the error codes and some nomenclature), its doing its job now and I am happy with it.  I will try and get Michael to add more info to the manual and send Sunny info on how to word things so they make more sense in English.  Thanks to others who have written about the machine and I am willing to help anyone else if you have questions.  Jan in Belleville Ontario.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 05:24:07 pm by JanMan »
 
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #274 on: July 22, 2017, 06:54:33 am »
Jan,
thank you for the review I am sorry for the problems.

But please send email to me if you receive problems so I try to help you.

For the cut cover tape problem it is necessary to adjust the top springs and the friction on a push feeder.


Best regards
Michael
 


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