SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines

[mrpackethead]

There are so many funny machine in Taobao yes but it's the same design like any other Quihe or old Neoden or Charminghigh machine.

Heres one of my favourite funny taobao machines.

https://world.taobao.com/item/534588622317.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-11366739536.29.LLB689

[Smallsmt]

@mrpackethead
Andrew your are the best!
By the way did you already bought a pnp machine?
Aaah yes you want to build your own?
I forgot maybe the TVM 920 is your favorite now.

I said funny machines because they use all the same bad feeder design and think they compensate by using 4 or 3 heads.

The machine firmware is embedded and mostly not Open source I thought you prefer.

So keep wasting my blog if it makes you happy.

[mrpackethead]

Andrew your are the best!

No, you are the best

By the way did you already bought a pnp machine?

I own several pnp machines.  Including two Yamaha's and Juki in the factory.     

Aaah yes you want to build your own?

Yes, for some very specific reasons, i am in the process of building one.  Becuase I want to do something that is not available from any vendor because its not exactly a normal process.

I forgot maybe the TVM 920 is your favorite now.

The TVM920 in my opinion the leader in the $10,000 market right now.   

I said funny machines because they use all the same bad feeder design and think they compensate by using 4 or 3 heads.

The same feeder design that is on your machines too.. 

The machine firmware is embedded and mostly not Open source I thought you prefer.

Only if you want it to be. 

So keep wasting my blog if it makes you happy.

The sad thing is you woudl have sold me a machine about 5 months ago,  but you just forgot to do a few basic things that raised serious alarm bells.

[TJ232]

Dear Michael and Andrew,

No offence intended at all, but I really hope that you will stop/move this silly kindergarten fight in a more private place and find a way to settle down.

Michael, as I said above in my post, I really want to see some real cusotomers reviews, picture, videos, etc.

I really want to see proper information's about existing and future SmallSMT machines here, if any available.

Thank you.

[mrpackethead]

Michael, as I said above in my post, I really want to see some real cusotomers reviews, picture, videos, etc.

We all would, but alas, they don't seem to be coming?

[Smallsmt]

Ask my customers to do

[Gary.M]

Michael, some suggestions:

In the "west" we like to be told a straight story, and trust is important. I'm interested in what you are offering, and I would like to suggest the following for your affordable entry level machine.

1/ Please make it as modular and upgradeable as you possibly can. Perhaps 32 feeders to start on one side, and easy to add feeders on another.

2/ Keep its size true desktop, certainly within 1 metre square.

3/ Make sure the hardware is very good and trouble free.

4/ Recognise that the software is possibly the most important part. I suggest you engage with openpnp and make your entry level machine fully compatible with that, or find a developer who can contribute your input to that project to ensure it works with what you offer. If you can do this you might just find the maker community want to embrace your machine.

5/ Don't engage in the little arguments that have arisen here, instead get some hardware that works and then create some really detailed video of what it can do in repsonse to what has been asked. There is a saying that goes "Put up or shut up" :-)

I'm a potential customer sometime in the next 9 months. I'm sure there are many more reading this thread than actually taking part. They are your audience. Good luck.

[mrpackethead]

In the "west" we like to be told a straight story, and trust is important.

Absoutely. This is the most important thing.  The little details are important. For example when you say you are company in XYZ, you need to be a company in XYZ.  Otherwise lots of problem arise, when people find out something else because the then think you are a pretender

[Smallsmt]

In the "west" we like to be told a straight story, and trust is important.

Absoutely. This is the most important thing.  The little details are important. For example when you say you are company in XYZ, you need to be a company in XYZ.  Otherwise lots of problem arise, when people find out something else because the then think you are a pretender

Please refer to http://www.smallsmt.biz/about-1/

[Smallsmt]

Michael, some suggestions:

In the "west" we like to be told a straight story, and trust is important. I'm interested in what you are offering, and I would like to suggest the following for your affordable entry level machine.

1/ Please make it as modular and upgradeable as you possibly can. Perhaps 32 feeders to start on one side, and easy to add feeders on another.

2/ Keep its size true desktop, certainly within 1 metre square.

3/ Make sure the hardware is very good and trouble free.

4/ Recognise that the software is possibly the most important part. I suggest you engage with openpnp and make your entry level machine fully compatible with that, or find a developer who can contribute your input to that project to ensure it works with what you offer. If you can do this you might just find the maker community want to embrace your machine.

5/ Don't engage in the little arguments that have arisen here, instead get some hardware that works and then create some really detailed video of what it can do in repsonse to what has been asked. There is a saying that goes "Put up or shut up" :-)

I'm a potential customer sometime in the next 9 months. I'm sure there are many more reading this thread than actually taking part. They are your audience. Good luck.

Hi Gary,
thank you for your suggestions we try to fill the gap between our current machines and the maker market.

So if you wan't to upgrade this new basic machine to use pneumatic feeders this will be possible but not included in the base price.
We will offer a 32 channel pneumatic controller addon up to 4 units are possible for our main controller.
If you buy a base plate including solenoid valves and Yamaha CL feeders you can add the mechanics to the chassis.

Our range is from very simple feeder system using cut strips and pockets to put mixed parts inside the working area up to the pneumatic feeders and if you add some researching maybe CAN bus feeder too.
We will provide some open hardware and software interfaces to add custom hardware.
If someone need Openpnp we offer the interface description to build your own serial command driver like we do for our current machines too!

Your arguments for detailed video and description we already do you find a lot on our website and on twitter too.
The new basic machine will have videos and description too on release date.

Best regards
Michael

[Gary.M]

If you want the maker market my suggestion of contributing to the openpnp project is a powerful one. If you can make that work "out of the box" then you have an immediate attraction that no other supplier does. Keep all the hardware options and upgrade paths very simple, clear and easy to understand. What you wrote above is not entirely clear. Think this through and make it simple to explain and offer.

[mrpackethead]

Please refer to http://www.smallsmt.biz/about-1/

Micheal, did you sell out of the business? I see that you are no longer listed as an owner..  were you used to be. only Wu Xiaojuan who used to be HotHotSMT?

[Smallsmt]

@Andrew
I wanted to tell you we have company registration now!
And company is registered for Wu Xiaojuan because she is Chinese.
But we still operating the company together.

[Smallsmt]

If you want the maker market my suggestion of contributing to the openpnp project is a powerful one. If you can make that work "out of the box" then you have an immediate attraction that no other supplier does. Keep all the hardware options and upgrade paths very simple, clear and easy to understand. What you wrote above is not entirely clear. Think this through and make it simple to explain and offer.

Gary I have much better software than OpenPNP but finally I need to guarantee the machine functions so I will not use JAVA software to operate my machine.
If you want to do it's easy to adopt.

[mrpackethead]

Gary I have much better software than OpenPNP but finally I need to guarantee the machine functions so I will not use JAVA software to operate my machine.
If you want to do it's easy to adopt.

Thats a very big claim.  What are the parameters you use to define "better"..

Open source versus closed source ...  One man versus a community of nearly people..  if you dissapear what happens. Your stuck. If  Jason falls over, we'll be sad, but we can continue.   Its very very attractive part of OS software

Proof is in the pudding - Theres lots of machines out there running the software. Its got a very flexible abstraction layer so without too much work you can make it work with anything..

Loose part pick up and detecion.. can i just drop some parts on the table,  ( randomly ) and have the machine vision them and look at them, pick them up and make them rotate.


Specifically, what makes it better?    Maybe the owner of the SmallSMT knows?

[Smallsmt]

It's easy to explain,

we are a team of 3 software developers and have a working solution for our machines now.
OpenPNP is on the way to be a working resolution.  (but JAVA will hold me away to use)
Our new Software improve our current system in many points including part detection and bend pin detection.
We have a model designer to detect and check special properties of a part.
You can assign detection model to any feeder of our machines.

We share some interfaces to the community to add own peripherals and will release an API to include other machines to be operated using our software.

The first example will be our V1 (2 head)/ V2 (4 head)/ V3 (CAN bus) controllers have all different drivers to operate with our new software.
But it is possible to write a special driver to operate a Quihe machine or TinyG  or Smoothie board ...

I need to earn money selling machines and software because development and support costs money!

Open source development is similar to the 90% Chinese software solutions never finished. (yes you can fix by yourself but do you have the skills to do?)
But anyway it's customers decision which model they like to support.

We offer both way's to go.

[mrpackethead]

It's easy to explain,

we are a team of 3 software developers and have a working solution for our machines now.

OpenPNP has a community of people and has had things running for years.

OpenPNP is on the way to be a working resolution.  (but JAVA will hold me away to use)

OpenPNP is working on many peoples machines, and is building many boards every day.   To say its "on the way" is quite incorrect.

Our new Software improve our current system in many points including part detection and bend pin detection.

OpenPNP is doing part detection TODAY.

Open source development is similar to the 90% Chinese software solutions never finished.

small smt is a chinese owned company?

[Smallsmt]

small smt is a chinese owned company?

YES that's the reason why I am responsible for the software development and testing.
YUSHENG and Smallsmt complement each other very well.

OpenPNP is doing part detection TODAY.

Our system is already working and tested based on rules!

[ebclr]

Guys don't fight instead cooperate

Each one  have her own reasons

[mrpackethead]

small smt is a chinese owned company?

YES that's the reason why I am responsible for the software development and testing.
YUSHENG and Smallsmt complement each other very well.

OpenPNP is doing part detection TODAY.

Our system is already working and tested based on rules!

"our System".. who is our..  are you part of the "our".. I did'nt think you were an owner.

[mrpackethead]

Guys don't fight instead cooperate

Each one  have her own reasons

Open forums on the internet are great for letting the sunshine fall on stuff. Its the best disinfectant.

[Gary.M]

Guys don't fight instead cooperate

Each one  have her own reasons

Open forums on the internet are great for letting the sunshine fall on stuff. Its the best disinfectant.

Yes, let's tone it down and be constructive.

Sent from my x600 using Tapatalk

[ar__systems]

mrpackethead

You are not contributing now. Your continuous passive aggressive attacks are becoming quite annoying.

What difference does it make who is the owner? An employee of a company can just as well use word "ours" even though he is not an owner. This picking on word is stupid.

[Simon]

Guys don't fight instead cooperate

Each one  have her own reasons

Open forums on the internet are great for letting the sunshine fall on stuff. Its the best disinfectant.

Have you finished ? You can't go demanding a company reveal every detail of their inner workings, who do you think you are ?

[l0wside]

Michael,

contrary to what is being said here, I think you are targeting an existing niche here. Assembling a kit and building from scratch are two entirely different things - think Ikea vs. real carpenting.

The only available kit I am aware of is the Liteplacer at 1200 EUR. In my understanding, its software is quite limited: frequent crashes, and no parts rotation (although it has bottom vision). And from my understanding, it is rather slow.

The next step is a TVM802a at three times this price. A kit for 2000 EUR with rock-solid software, proper vision and half-decent speed would definitely fill this gap.

Carry on!

Max