Soldering Machines/Robots for Through holes ? Robotdigg R8 Anyone???

[jmelson]

(I thought about solder wave or selective solder wave as alternatives, but with the amount of boards I run and the space I have in my workshop both are out of the question)

If you have no components on the bottom side of the board, you can do dip soldering!  I have one board like this, it has ** 40 ** through-hole components!  I flux the back of the board and then stuff the components.  Then, I dip it in a big solder pot (5 x 7") for 10 seconds.  It took just a little time to figure out how to do this, and I'm now getting pretty close to perfect soldering.  I need to see if there's some way I can spray the flux on, right now I do it with a brush.

Jon

[Reckless]

(I thought about solder wave or selective solder wave as alternatives, but with the amount of boards I run and the space I have in my workshop both are out of the question)

If you have no components on the bottom side of the board, you can do dip soldering!  I have one board like this, it has ** 40 ** through-hole components!  I flux the back of the board and then stuff the components.  Then, I dip it in a big solder pot (5 x 7") for 10 seconds.  It took just a little time to figure out how to do this, and I'm now getting pretty close to perfect soldering.  I need to see if there's some way I can spray the flux on, right now I do it with a brush.

Jon

We do dip soldering but we dunk the pcb in flux before dipping in solder.  My only issue is the level of solder dross created means I am constantly manually swirling the pot every 4 seconds.

I have not found anybody using succesfully a soldering robot in a production enviornment.  One of my friends is a used equipment dealer and he said he had to scrap some very expensive ones as no one was interested in purchasing.

[Reckless]

I bought two of these for insertion:

[HHaase]

We use a robotic soldering cell at work,  it's a Japan Unix machine,  and it's been running regularly for a few years. 

The trick with these types of machines is that you pretty much have to dedicate it to a specific assembly, and find a way to precisely fixture that assembly in a repeatable location.  If you can't maintain location accuracy of the parts, the machine won't stand a chance.   Most of the high end machines also have proprietary or dedicated design soldering heads.  They use very different tip styles than you'd use for hand soldering.    Notched chisel tips are common for single point soldering.

I actually picked up an old Apollo Seiko system from e-bay last year with the intention of using it.   But the old Sony robot it's based on is something I can't find documentation on,  and I don't believe the theta motor is working on the soldering head.  Unfortunately the Z axis is pneumatic, not motor driven, or I'd convert it with something like Mach-3.  I'd happily part with it for the $300 I paid for it.  It's a solid unit just outside what I'm willing to handle right now. 

-Hans

[Ruichirobot]

Sir, our soldering robot can be used for the solder with flux, so we don't need to spray the flux on the board anymore.

And our soldering robot are controlled by PC, and the software system is developed based on window 7, so it is easy to be operated.

Welcome for your inquiry.

tina@ruichirobot.com

[TJ232]

Sir, our soldering robot can be used for the solder with flux, so we don't need to spray the flux on the board anymore.

And our soldering robot are controlled by PC, and the software system is developed based on window 7, so it is easy to be operated.

Welcome for your inquiry.

tina@ruichirobot.com

Can you also please provide some technical description documents and some demo videos about machine operation?

Thanks,
TJ.

[Reckless]

(I thought about solder wave or selective solder wave as alternatives, but with the amount of boards I run and the space I have in my workshop both are out of the question)

If you have no components on the bottom side of the board, you can do dip soldering!  I have one board like this, it has ** 40 ** through-hole components!  I flux the back of the board and then stuff the components.  Then, I dip it in a big solder pot (5 x 7") for 10 seconds.  It took just a little time to figure out how to do this, and I'm now getting pretty close to perfect soldering.  I need to see if there's some way I can spray the flux on, right now I do it with a brush.

Jon

Why not dip it in flux instead of brushing it on?  Wont dipping be faster?  Ive tried this but my only issue flux leaves a gunky residue which is sticky.  I dont know if all fluxes are like that.

[ubbut]

Sir, our soldering robot can be used for the solder with flux, so we don't need to spray the flux on the board anymore.

Pretty sure Ruichirobot means you don't need additional flux, the flux in the solder wire is sufficient.

[jmelson]

Why not dip it in flux instead of brushing it on?  Wont dipping be faster?  Ive tried this but my only issue flux leaves a gunky residue which is sticky.  I dont know if all fluxes are like that.

Yes, I'd need a big container of flux that could be sealed so it didn't dry out.  But, yes, that is certainly a better way.  Maybe I'll try to do find a proper conatiner and try it.

Jon

[Reckless]

Make sure to buy no clean soldering flux.  I accidentally bought regular and its pretty much maple syrup.

[Reckless]

1. All of my PCBs have though hole components (JST Connectors) and I'm trying to find a cheap soldering machine but they are all above 5K. Does anyone know any cheaper ones besides the Robotdigg R8?
2. Speaking of Robotdigg R8 model; I cant find any information or videos from users. Does anyone knows about this machine (link below)
3. Is there any DIY solutions for soldering machines?

I purchased a chinese soldering robot a year or so ago and am still trying to get it dialed in.   We're pretty close.   Been a real challenge to hold the components in place, get the right high-percentage-flux cored wire, etc..   The goal being to replace the tempermental wave solder machine.

My recommendation is that unless you're soldering a *LOT* of pins on a board, you're probably going to be better off hand-soldering.

Did you ever get this working?   I'm rethinking to buy one of these 3 axis R8-UP models.   I don't have a lot of pins per board but A LOT of boards to solder.   

[forrestc]

Did you ever get this working?   I'm rethinking to buy one of these 3 axis R8-UP models.   I don't have a lot of pins per board but A LOT of boards to solder.   

No, every time I think I get it close, it throws another wrench at me.   I need to get back to it, but less temperamental things have demanded my time.

It's at the point I'm thinking of moving to a selective solder machine.

[Reckless]

Did you ever get this working?   I'm rethinking to buy one of these 3 axis R8-UP models.   I don't have a lot of pins per board but A LOT of boards to solder.   

No, every time I think I get it close, it throws another wrench at me.   I need to get back to it, but less temperamental things have demanded my time.

It's at the point I'm thinking of moving to a selective solder machine.

I'm hoping for the reverse.   Buy 2-3 of these and sell my selective solder machine.   Did you buy this exact unit from robotdigg? 3 axis or 4 axis?

[SMdude]

It would be nice to have a soldering machine for all the through hole bits, however I can't see a machine being reliable at this, at least not with conventional iron and solder feeding methods.

However, what if the soldering tip was hollow and solder fed through the center of the tip?
The solder would have to feed in while soldering and retract far enough not to melt in the feeder tube.
Also a compressed air(or nitrogen) blast occasionally to clear the tip.

This way the solder tip could push down around each pin and contact the pad on the board and force good heat transfer and a good solder joint.

A problem with this method would be if you had fat pins and skinny fine pitch pins on the same board. Hmmm Auto tip changer? 

Probably too hard!!

Cheers

[nisma]

For simple projects A8 3d printer works with ts100 sodering iron. NoC Rotation however. With2mm spacing it work.

[mariush]

Any company out there working on a cheap laser soldering machine?

I imagine you need a powerful laser and also very fast feedback to measure the temperature of the pads like they show in the videos
For some basic through hole soldering, I imagine it would be fairly easy to modify some cnc to drop solder paste on top of leads or around leads and then if you could have a laser warm up the solder gradually the problem's solved (i realize the solder being so shiny would make this difficult)

[Reckless]

What's the fascination with laser soldering?   Apollo seiko rep wasn't too hot on it.   It requires line of sight to function.   They seem a bit finicky to me in the videos.   I'm not seeing the benefit?  They make lots of claims but in reality doesn't live up to them has been my impression.

[mariush]

It seems like it would be useful for various applications.
The problem I see with regular soldering machines is that you have to deal with the handpiece, and you have to program the machine to touch both lead and pad to transfer heat, then you have to feed solder... so you probably need to have the solder iron tip at an angle, which would take up space, and you may have to change tips depending on component size. If the laser soldering machine can focus the laser or make it certain shapes like the video shows, it would seem the machine would solder a higher number of components per minute.
 
If you only solder the bottom of the board where there's no obstacles that's fine, but what if you have to solder something on top on a board that already has components installed?
Seems like laser soldering could also be useful for soldering heat sensitive components like crystals/oscillators or tiny leds, parts you wouldn't want to move through wave soldering machines.

It just seems to me if you already have a reliable pick and place machine figured out, with good camera, it wouldn't be hard to replace the pick and place head with a laser... but I realize the laser and lens would be expensive and I guess the feedback must be fast so you don't burn pads
 

[Fire Doger]

Seems like laser soldering could also be useful for soldering heat sensitive components like crystals/oscillators or tiny leds, parts you wouldn't want to move through wave soldering machines.
 

They just use glue.

[Reckless]

I ordered soldering robot last night even though I haven't heard of anyone successfully integrating one in their manufacturing process which makes me very, very uneasy. Lets see how fast I can learn chinese to program robot.   

I checked with my friends laser soldering is a huge pain.   They have experience using them and were relaying nightmare stories.   

[ubbut]

Which one did you order?

Very eager to hear about your experiences with it..

[Reckless]

I ordered 2 head 3 axis unit R8-UP420 150 watt soldering irons.  No longer comes with high definition camera.   

[Reckless]

So the solder robot came in.  Initial impressions it looks less professional in person compared to ad.  They ship 220V solder irons no matter what.  I would have preferred 120V. 

We did have a few screws/and things that needed to be repaired/set in place as they came off during shipment (shipment cost as much as unit practically).  It took awhile to find chinese windows (it doesn't work with regular windows).  Once that was hooked up it took awhile to setup drivers/etc.  It responds flawlessly now and it seems to be repeatable.  We are having an issue trying to find an adjustable solder pallet or fixture (we never made one before).  We tried making one out of supplies from Home Depot but it wasn't perfectly level. 

Any ideas of where to find cheap adjustable solder pallets or how to make one let me know.  This is what I have found so far:
http://productiondevices.com/pcboardholder.html

[IconicPCB]

How is it going ?

On the question of racks and palettes try Fancort Industries.
They used to have titanium clips used on wave soldering palettes to hold the PCB in place within a machined aperture in a G10 frame while going over a wave soldering pot.

You could have strips of G10 machined and drilled to allow you to setup an adjustable frame and use these titanium clips to hold the board in place while the robot solders the joints.

The clips were designed to clip over the edge of G10 material and at the same time provide a spring loaded clippy thingy to hold the PCB in place.

This is going back late eighties early nineties.

[Reckless]

I ended up ordering one of these to use as a fixture jig:


We super glued the magnets to the base and going to drill a hole in the surface to line up with solder robot in case it gets bumped.  Still trying to level R8 machine 100%.  Our floor is a little unlevel and we are working on trying to find a work around. 

I need to buy more fancort PCB bench top slide lines for manual rework.  Thinking about this Fancort 48" slide but would have wanted something even nicer: