Soldering station - Hakko, JBC, or Pace??

[jsquaredz]

Hello all.  I am looking to get a new soldering station.  Currently I have the Hakko 888D and want to upgrade to the direct heat tip style.   

I am looking at :

Hakko FX951 - $245
Pace  ADS200 - $388
JBC CD-1BQF - $449

I liked the Pace when I watched Dave's review and teardown from 3 years ago, but the price is almost double what it was back then.  I feel that the Pace is close enough to the JBC that I would just spring for the JBC for the extra 100 bucks.

That said, I wonder if the JBC is really worth almost twice the price of the Hakko.  I am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once" , but I also want to make a smart decision.  Let me know what you all think.  With the current prices I would love to hear some feedback.


P.S. Does anyone know if the current version of the Pace has fixed the firmware issues and goofy capacitor placement board layout issue>?

[Mangozac]

I am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once" , but I also want to make a smart decision.

It's not like you can go wrong with any of those 3 options though. I'd say it comes down more to personal preference and specific task requirements.

[tooki]

Perhaps the deciding factor might be the consumables. Go look at the selection and cost of (genuine) tips -- there are massive differences in this regard. JBC's selection is incredible, but the prices are... oof. (And JBC tips aren't as long-lasting as the others.)

[flolic]

JBC's selection is incredible, but the prices are... oof. (And JBC tips aren't as long-lasting as the others.)

I don't know how long lasts tips from other manufacturers, but my experience with JBC is great. Most used tip in my station is C245-034, and the current one is over 2 years old. I own a repair shop, and that tip is used every single day on all kind of situations.
Also, T12s are no match to JBCs regarding power delivery. I have no experience with Pace.

[2N3055]

It is the price and longevity of tips that are deciding the cost of the system.
JBC have most choice at high prices. Pace is pretty much same performance, much less expensive tips.

Hakko has a bit less power but should be good enough too. If you are soldering something with huge thermal mass you need to preheat it anyways...

[knotlogic]

P.S. Does anyone know if the current version of the Pace has fixed the firmware issues and goofy capacitor placement board layout issue>?

Goofy capacitor placement issues?

Can't speak for your other options, but I have the Pace and quite like using it.  The handpiece gives a short tip to grip distance which makes it easy for me to work with.  The 120W of the Pace allowed me to do a job that my old 40W Metcal couldn't manage (though the Metcal was also a joy to use).

[asmi]

I use ADS200 I bought shortly after it was released at ~$220, and it was a no-brainer for that price. But even at today's prices, I would choose it over JBC because of tip costs. The reality is you will need at least 4 tips (one for microsoldering, one general-purpose chisel, one larger chisel for high-heat capacity part soldering like SMA connectors, one "axe"-style for PCB cleaning), and double that if you need to also have ability to use both leaded and lead-free solder (you can't use the same tip for both since it will be contaminated with lead and thus will not be RoHS-compliant). With that, the cost of tips would be significant, and so the cheaper they are, the better, both for initial investment and long-term usage.

[m k]

Perhaps the deciding factor might be the consumables. Go look at the selection and cost of (genuine) tips -- there are massive differences in this regard. JBC's selection is incredible, but the prices are... oof. (And JBC tips aren't as long-lasting as the others.)

Back in the day Pace had consumable tips, those that had to be tinned during first warm up.
(that was a through hole era and machines were used)

[Brage]

Consider the interface of the product as well. Having buttons and switches that are intuitive to you and a display that makes sense plays a part in product selection.

A good example, for me, is the Pace display vs the JBC display. Pace struggle to give you enough information through the display to tell you whats going on, while the JBC display almost displays too much information. Sure, you'll learn how the Pace works after some time, but come on... This is a simple tool that you want to use without having to drag out a manual or search online to find out how its working.

[sam512bb]

Best soldering iron hands down for me, has been my Metcal.  I bought mine about 15 years ago and paid a lot for it, but has never let me down... and I can use it in virtually any application include uber fine pitch work.  Tips are not overly expensive and a new tip basically renews the iron, as the tip is in control of the heating.  New tip = new heating.  Tips last a very long time.  I think I buy news tips when I have to wait more than 10 seconds for it to reach temp.  When new the tips reach temp in under 5 seconds.

I cannot speak for the new Metcal products, but I would check them out... as  you will never look back.

Cheers,

Sam

[jsquaredz]

I do appreciate that.  I have the Hakko 888D and the interface is horrible.  I much rather have the 888 with the awesome rotary knob rather than the cryptic controls of the 888D.  I guess from that standpoint the JBC is the only way to go from these three.

[Shock]

In my opinion the Hakko and JBC CD series have more operational quirks than the Pace ADS200. Pace improved the firmware quite a while back, the capacitor position is not a show stopper. The ADS200 runs tweezers as well as the iron. The others don't and the FX951 is only 75W. The Pace interface is very intuative. Setup isn't as easy as JBC but it's a one time thing. The JBC screen has viewing issues in different positions and lighting conditions. Then theres tip life and that the JBC temp profile tends to run a little hot which boosts it's apparent performance.

Down to the different brands. Pace ADS200 for a cheaper system, Metcal MX5200 for a more expensive one. They both have reasonable tip cost for what they are and are solidly built. Metcals stand is a bit plastic like though.

[Bassman59]

Hello all.  I am looking to get a new soldering station.  Currently I have the Hakko 888D and want to upgrade to the direct heat tip style.   

I am looking at :

Hakko FX951 - $245
Pace  ADS200 - $388
JBC CD-1BQF - $449

Metcal MFR-1110 -- $418.

[thm_w]

Goofy capacitor placement issues?

Can't speak for your other options, but I have the Pace and quite like using it.  The handpiece gives a short tip to grip distance which makes it easy for me to work with.  The 120W of the Pace allowed me to do a job that my old 40W Metcal couldn't manage (though the Metcal was also a joy to use).

A capacitor is right beside the heatsink inside the unit, not a major issue though.

What tip were you using on the Metcal? I actually find this really hard to believe, unless its the low end 400kHz stuff.
The Pace does not put out anywhere near 120W from what we've seen (Dave and SDG's testing), its something closer to 70W.

In most cases I would expect a 40W 13MHz Metcal to match the Pace, due to its induction tech, unless you are using a very large tip where raw power is important.

[Shock]

The Pace does not put out anywhere near 120W from what we've seen (Dave and SDG's testing), its something closer to 70W.

Nonsense, the handpiece is directly powered by rectified ac at full voltage. Neither of them put the handpiece on an oscilloscope. But it would likely end up leading to more assumptions being made. Steve seems to think regulating stations work 100% duty all the time. Even his Metcal reduces power when it's near set temp.

The Pace ADS200 has an led light on the front that shows you when it's powering the heater. If it's not on constantly it's regulating. Regulating is not 100% duty.

The most apparent difference in performance is because the ADS200 regulates at a lower temperature. You can't just set 3 different stations to the same temperature and expect the same results. You need to properly profile their performance i.e. log it under some calibrated loads.

Another argument is if the Pace is running at 70W max power how can you explain it heating approximately twice as fast as the Hakko FX951, another 70W station?

Again if you look at JBC charts you wonder is the Metcal tip 357C and running hot or is it the 412C tip running cold? Why does the JBC go up to 430C?

[thm_w]

Nonsense, the handpiece is directly powered by rectified ac at full voltage. Neither of them put the handpiece on an oscilloscope. But it would likely end up leading to more assumptions being made. Steve seems to think regulating stations work 100% duty all the time. Even his Metcal reduces power when it's near set temp.

The Pace ADS200 has an led light on the front that shows you when it's powering the heater. If it's not on constantly it's regulating. Regulating is not 100% duty.

I would trust the PM300 power analyzer Dave used over the front LED, but oscilloscope is a good idea. The ADS power jumps between 10W and 70-120W, so it is hard to determine a true average power. Its introducing large dead-time for some reason we don't know of. If you have a kill-a-watt, I would recommend testing with that and seeing how much it actually takes under sustained use, you might be surprised.

FX951 is "rated" at 70W, but with an ideal short power tip and workpiece, at best you are getting about 50W. 
Add to that Pace tip and heater design is more optimized over T12. In addition, T12 has a ton of non-optimal tip designs.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ksger-t12-tip-selection/msg3346686/#msg3346686

[Shock]

It's not even worth my time trying to argue it with you, I tested my stations 4 years ago. Your assumptions are based on Dave and Steve not realizing that the test they performed is very susceptible to how the stations regulate near set temp (or the lack of regulation on some stations) as well as calibration and other factors to a lesser degree. Remember in actual soldering we don't sit on a joint for 10-20 seconds on a coin or a pcb blank.

If it indeed was a lack of power why did it improve with an increased temperature? It's because when creating a molten solder bridge as well as increasing the surface area between the tip and joint it increases thermal transfer efficiency.

The power meters weren't suitable for that test, you need both fast responding equipment and logging the heater directly not the power supply. But that doesn't even matter because you will just further cement your cognitive bias until you approach it scientifically.

Which I don't feel the need to explain, testing them properly is quite involved and won't change the results. It will just show the JBC CD design delvers more short term performance but loses out to Metcal MX5200 on heavier joints and if you adjust for differences in regulation (or lack thereof) the Pace pulls closer to JBC and the Metcal surpasses JBC. So nothing different from what you will discover observing them closely with a tip thermometer.

Another thought experiment, if you think the Pace is 70W then how do you explain the JBCs 135/140W, oh man that must be incredible performance at double the power. What about the FX888 is it 30W of power now. I mean that proposition just gets silly. Most people don't understand on small tips the power availability far exceeds the tips throughput, a large amount of the work is heating the tip from cold.

You must excuse me, I've grown quite weary.

[thm_w]

If it indeed was a lack of power why did it improve with an increased temperature?

I don't think its necessarily a lack of power, its some issue with the control system. Raising temperature would be a way to workaround that control.

Another thought experiment, if you think the Pace is 70W then how do you explain the JBCs 135/140W, oh man that must be incredible performance at double the power. What about the FX888 is it 30W of power now. I mean that proposition just gets silly.

JBC straight up admits to it being peak power, and average power is much less (they don't even tell you the number).
From what SDG says on his 5mm tip, the power was limited via software to 90W. Maybe the heater coil cannot handle any higher?

So JBC is really 90W, Pace being in the 70-90W range too does not seem so unreasonable right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGPVhv5fZGs
Here consumption with 5mm only peaks at 60W.

Most people don't understand on small tips the power availability far exceeds the tips throughput, a large amount of the work is heating the tip from cold.

Yeah absolutely agree.
Which is why you'll generally see the highest consumption when powering on the station.
But, that consumption may not be a valid comparison, because: it could never reach that power again under normal use (if the tip measurement design system does not allow it), and the software might have a "turn on" mode to allow it to heat up faster.

[Arts]

I have been using the JBC CD-1BE with the T245 handpiece for a couple of years now. Very long daily run times, and it has been flawless. I use only genuine JBC C245 tips from an authorized distributor.
Never had a problem with any of my tips.

I also have a Hakko FM-203 with the FM-2030 heavy duty handpiece (140W using T22 cartridges) on my second bench, and would strongly suggest adding this model to your list if high-power soldering is a requirement. Not nearly the same quantity/variety of tips as the T15 lineup, but more than wide ranging enough to satisfy most needs. Mind,as with all Hakko stations, the user interface is abysmal.....

[Arhigos]

Ok. I'm working in production and i used all of them and here is my experience:

Hakko has great quality. Well built and well designed. Ergonomics is ok. Not best not terrible. Performance is ok for most cases. Tips life is ok and also tips is not very expensive. I would say this is great choice for production line.

Pace recently introduced the new ADS2000. They make tips with same design as previous intelliheat generation but with different specs. That means if you try to use older tips in a new station you will get crazy high temperature. And if you put new tips in older station you will get very low temperature. We damaged couple very expensive PCB due to that (over $2000 was scrapped). Also three button menu is absolutely terrible and not user-friendly. You have to download user manual and read it every time you need to change something in settings. Sleeping stand is also stupid and requires proprietary cable. (for example hakko uses 3.5mm jack). I do not recommend pace for any type of production. Only for home or hobby use. I think pace could win gold medal in /r/assholedesign/ subreddit

JBC is amazing. Yes this is the most expensive station, but design, ergonomics and quality is absolutely great. My favorite features is quick-tip change and OLED screen. Another good thing that i love is that higher temperature is locked at 400 C and can only go higher from the secret menu. That means no employees will be setting temperature above recommended and oveheating components for example.  Right now we use JBC everywhere and recycled all other stations.

I also recommend Metcal. This is really expensive station but heating performance is better than any other soldering station.

[Shock]

You're an idiot if you can't use Paces preset button and up/down button. The tip series are color coded, how hard is it. As an experienced solderer I don't buy into you not knowing you stuck the wrong tip in, I have both stations as well it's obvious.

I like how you troll about Paces interface and leave out Hakkos the FX888 and FX951 are hard to even set a temp on. Put the JBC CD on a shelf you can't even see the buttons or see the screen.

I admit the Pace setup isn't ultra intuitive but whats there to setup more than once? The stand cable is an overkill, I personally think it should be simpler and detachable. I've not tested Hakkos but the question I'd ask is can you plug something into the Hakko 3.5mm jack and damage the mcu, that is the problem with using common connectors. If you didn't like Paces stand connectors it's trivial to convert it over to something else.

Anyway up, down and a preset recall button. Yeah REAL rocket science, it's like one of the easiest digital stations out there. Hey we should have like a video comparison of you setting the first preset and me setting the first preset and let people decide for themselves who can press a button the best. Then we can do the second and third presets if you want to get super technical. Heheheh.

I can literally do it blindfolded, I'm not joking.

[Arhigos]

1. Im not talking about changing temperature. I'm talking about things like disable or enable channel on mbt350, change sleep offset and things like that.

2. Dark blue and black is really different color, yes sure. But even if they had red and black for example people will still try to use incorrect tips because there is no warning or anything like that. This dumb design is not acceptable for production use.

[Shock]

The MBT350 is 20 years old. I've told them to make a quick key combo to disable a channel so hopefully they put it in the new multichannel versions, but yeah really their design back then was not focused heavily on channel management.

[tooki]

Ok. I'm working in production and i used all of them and here is my experience:

Hakko has great quality. Well built and well designed. Ergonomics is ok. Not best not terrible. Performance is ok for most cases. Tips life is ok and also tips is not very expensive. I would say this is great choice for production line.

Pace recently introduced the new ADS2000. They make tips with same design as previous intelliheat generation but with different specs. That means if you try to use older tips in a new station you will get crazy high temperature. And if you put new tips in older station you will get very low temperature. We damaged couple very expensive PCB due to that (over $2000 was scrapped). Also three button menu is absolutely terrible and not user-friendly. You have to download user manual and read it every time you need to change something in settings. Sleeping stand is also stupid and requires proprietary cable. (for example hakko uses 3.5mm jack). I do not recommend pace for any type of production. Only for home or hobby use. I think pace could win gold medal in /r/assholedesign/ subreddit

If you think Hakko’s interface is better than in the ADS200, then I can only conclude you’re insane!

Regardless, using the wrong tips and ruining $2K worth of product is entirely on user error. How awful a technician must one be to not realize the tip is running way hotter than expected? (I notice tip temperature readily.) And then to not notice it yet continue working in a way that causes catastrophic damage? Not Pace’s fault if you hire staff with IQs lower than their ages.

The instant standby connector is a standard DIN socket. (Amphenol C091B series if you want to get the exact parts, but any bayonet or non-latching DIN plug works.) Nothing proprietary about it. It’s a simple switch contact, no proprietary communication.

Pace is the exact opposite of a hobbyist product. They’re used widely in production and repair, especially in military and aerospace. So if you can’t get good results with it, that’s on you.

Their stations also let you program password-protected maximum temperatures.

[2N3055]

With due all respect, but I can roughly tell soldering temperature by how fast flux burns. At 310°C it is vastly different than at 370°C where it burns and oxidizes almost immediately. But even 370-380°C shouldn't damage board immediately, unless you heat it too long and apply mechanical force, i.e. not doing it right.

And also, what do you change all the time on the menu? In production, you sometimes LOCK the station, so operator cannot change even temperature....

And then you talk about how you lock JBC so operator cannot change anything ??

As they say in that meme "I am confusion, Ameriga egsplain"

[nctnico]

With due all respect, but I can roughly tell soldering temperature by how fast flux burns. At 310°C it is vastly different than at 370°C where it burns and oxidizes almost immediately. But even 370-380°C shouldn't damage board immediately, unless you heat it too long and apply mechanical force, i.e. not doing it right.

Yep. 400 degrees or more is no good. It shows people use tips which are too small or tips that needed to be replaced a long time ago. I usually use 330 degrees C which also gives nice joints when using lead free solder.

JBC is overpriced crap IMHO; the tips burn up way too quick becoming useless because they won't wet (pick up solder evenly across the tip) at all. Same goes for Weller. I have been using Ersa for decades and never needed to replace a tip because it wouldn't wet any more.

I can't comment on Hakko & Pace as I have no extensive experience with these brands.

[thm_w]

Regardless, using the wrong tips and ruining $2K worth of product is entirely on user error. How awful a technician must one be to not realize the tip is running way hotter than expected? (I notice tip temperature readily.) And then to not notice it yet continue working in a way that causes catastrophic damage? Not Pace’s fault if you hire staff with IQs lower than their ages.

I agree completely but, are there any other name brand stations where you can plug the wrong tip in and the temperature will be incorrect?

Shock kindly pointed out the WJS 100 to me. If you had two of these beside on the bench, and a handful of tips in the middle, I just assume its compatible.
OK the end of the tip is yellow instead of blue, if you have the tips sitting upright you wont see that.

Of course, they are a smaller company so its a lot more expensive to make changes, which puts them at a disadvantage.

[Arhigos]

Ok. I'm working in production and i used all of them and here is my experience:

Hakko has great quality. Well built and well designed. Ergonomics is ok. Not best not terrible. Performance is ok for most cases. Tips life is ok and also tips is not very expensive. I would say this is great choice for production line.

Pace recently introduced the new ADS2000. They make tips with same design as previous intelliheat generation but with different specs. That means if you try to use older tips in a new station you will get crazy high temperature. And if you put new tips in older station you will get very low temperature. We damaged couple very expensive PCB due to that (over $2000 was scrapped). Also three button menu is absolutely terrible and not user-friendly. You have to download user manual and read it every time you need to change something in settings. Sleeping stand is also stupid and requires proprietary cable. (for example hakko uses 3.5mm jack). I do not recommend pace for any type of production. Only for home or hobby use. I think pace could win gold medal in /r/assholedesign/ subreddit

If you think Hakko’s interface is better than in the ADS200, then I can only conclude you’re insane!

Regardless, using the wrong tips and ruining $2K worth of product is entirely on user error. How awful a technician must one be to not realize the tip is running way hotter than expected? (I notice tip temperature readily.) And then to not notice it yet continue working in a way that causes catastrophic damage? Not Pace’s fault if you hire staff with IQs lower than their ages.

The instant standby connector is a standard DIN socket. (Amphenol C091B series if you want to get the exact parts, but any bayonet or non-latching DIN plug works.) Nothing proprietary about it. It’s a simple switch contact, no proprietary communication.

Pace is the exact opposite of a hobbyist product. They’re used widely in production and repair, especially in military and aerospace. So if you can’t get good results with it, that’s on you.

Their stations also let you program password-protected maximum temperatures.

You probably never worked at high volume manufacturing in US if you think that all employees should feel temperature on the tip of soldering iron lol.

For the sleeping connector - I'm talking about just grabbing one from surplus bin when needed. Of course you can reverse engineer the sleeping stand and order connector from mouser. But that's way more time consuming than using standard 3.5mm connector

[Arhigos]

With due all respect, but I can roughly tell soldering temperature by how fast flux burns. At 310°C it is vastly different than at 370°C where it burns and oxidizes almost immediately. But even 370-380°C shouldn't damage board immediately, unless you heat it too long and apply mechanical force, i.e. not doing it right.

And also, what do you change all the time on the menu? In production, you sometimes LOCK the station, so operator cannot change even temperature....

And then you talk about how you lock JBC so operator cannot change anything ??

As they say in that meme "I am confusion, Ameriga egsplain"

I saw a lot of guys trying to set temperature as high as possible. In most cases 850 F. Which is 450c.

Even that temperature will not damage anything, but will make tip life shorter and may cause overheat on some gentle components.

[knotlogic]

I saw a lot of guys trying to set temperature as high as possible. In most cases 850 F. Which is 450c.

Even that temperature will not damage anything, but will make tip life shorter and may cause overheat on some gentle components.

450c??  I think even the least experienced tech at a past workplace would have had strong words if they caught someone setting the temp that high.

[Arhigos]

I saw a lot of guys trying to set temperature as high as possible. In most cases 850 F. Which is 450c.

Even that temperature will not damage anything, but will make tip life shorter and may cause overheat on some gentle components.

450c??  I think even the least experienced tech at a past workplace would have had strong words if they caught someone setting the temp that high.

Yes a lot of people simply trying to set temp as high as station allows them. Including people with IPC certification renewable every two years

[Hydrawerk]

I work at a small company. There are two old JBC AM-2A rework stations, about ten PACE ST50, about four PACE ADS200, about six BAKON BK2000 and even about two ERSA ANALOG 60, that is shit and should be avoided. ERSA is hardly used. I do not even use it.

BAKON BK2000 is probably induction and is OK for basic THT soldering. But the user interface is crap. It is locked by a password. To enable temperature setting, you must press all the three buttons and power on the station. Then it is unlocked.   

There is no Hakko. I have seen an old 50W Weller, probably WS51, but now it is gone and no longer used.
I use the JBC AM-2A mostly. Sometimes I use the PACE ST50.
I have a JBC hot tweezer AT420. It delivers 160W. Better than a hot tweezer made by PACE.

[Hydrawerk]

Go for JBC if you want the best user comfort and best range of tips and handles. But it will cost you a lot of money. I love the fast cartridge change.


You might prefer PACE, if you want a simple but powerful soldering station. Only some PACE soldering cartridges are cheaper than JBC. The PACE cartridges are fixed in the handle and cannot be turned around. I am not happy with that. The cartridges have a plastic end with contacts. They can theoretically be broken. For menu setting you need an user manual. PACE hot tweezer is bloody expensive.

[Hydrawerk]

I like the internal construction of ADS200. It looks like it is easy to repair if ever needed. There is a transformer with a safety partition and one voltage on the secondary side, maybe 28V? Keys on the pcb can be replaced when broken.
https://youtu.be/WXL-pWD44pc?t=622

[Hydrawerk]

I do not like the internal construction of this JBC much. That is what I call overengineering. There is a transformer with two voltages on the secondary side. Probably 12V and 24V. There are no replaceable button keys and the flat cables can hardly be bought when broken. But this soldering station will probably last at least 10 years. It might be OK for you. The user comfort is better than JBC.
I am not sure, is the JBC station made of plastic or aluminium??
https://youtu.be/PjEYI5WsLBI?t=336

[tooki]

...and even about two ERSA ANALOG 60, that is shit and should be avoided. ERSA is hardly used. I do not even use it.

That's an ancient model, nobody cares about that. The relevant models today (since around 2008, I think) have been the i-CON line, which performs quite well IMHO.

I have a JBC hot tweezer AT420. It delivers 160W. Better than a hot tweezer made by PACE.

Pace makes several, completely different tweezer models. You need to specify which one you mean, and maybe say why.

You might prefer PACE, if you want a simple but powerful soldering station. Only some PACE soldering cartridges are cheaper than JBC.

I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of Pace tips are cheaper.

The PACE cartridges are fixed in the handle and cannot be turned around. I am not happy with that. The cartridges have a plastic end with contacts. They can theoretically be broken.

Are you saying that as a bad thing, or as a good thing (that you could break off the plastic to let the tip rotate freely)?

[Bud]

JBC handpiece is delicate, sometimes i am afraid to breathe on it, it can just snap in half if you accidentally hit it or drop the stand. With Pace I can throw it at an elefant and kill the poor creature, then go back to soldering with it.

[Hydrawerk]

Bud
PACE TD-100 can be broken, I have seen it once. It is made of plastic. https://paceworldwide.com/td-100-tip-heater-cartridge-soldering-iron
TD-100A and TD-200 are made of aluminium, they can hardly break.
https://paceworldwide.com/td-200-soldering-iron
JBC T245-A is made of plastic, but it is not that bad. I use it for three years and no problems. It was not new when I started using it.
https://www.jbctools.com/t245-a-general-purpose-handle-product-45.html

[Hydrawerk]

The PACE cartridges are fixed in the handle and cannot be turned around. I am not happy with that. The cartridges have a plastic end with contacts. They can theoretically be broken.

Are you saying that as a bad thing, or as a good thing (that you could break off the plastic to let the tip rotate freely)?

As a bad thing. The blue end with gold contacts can theoretically break. There is no way to let the tip rotate freely. Contacts do not allow this!

[Hydrawerk]

I have a JBC hot tweezer AT420. It delivers 160W. Better than a hot tweezer made by PACE.

Pace makes several, completely different tweezer models. You need to specify which one you mean, and maybe say why.

PACE MT-200 delivers only 120W and it is expensive.
https://paceworldwide.com/mt-200-minitweez-thermal-tweezer#compatibletips
But it might be more precise than my JBC AT420A.

https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/MT-200-6010-0169-P1/Soldering-Tweezers/
https://www.tequipment.net/JBC/AT420-A/Soldering-Tweezers/

[Shock]

The JBC tweezers though need a more expensive station or one specifically for the tweezers. The Pace you can use the existing ADS200 station or any future Accudrive station. I've mentioned this all before when looking at the price. The Pace tweezers are also aluminum which makes them more expensive to manufacture.

The other thing which is a bit of a fallacy is required power past around 100W. If it was anything significant you would be using additional heating either hot air or a pcb preheater. If I was doing some smd rework that needed that much power I wouldn't even risk it without using some preheating, it's like turning on desoldering easy mode.

[loguej]

Hello your post caught my eye especially the fact you mentioned the hakko   fm2030 I have never seen anyone talk about using this handpiece almost like it doesn't exist I am thinking of getting a soldering statione upgrade to the FM203 that I have and that handle and tip combination may work, or jumping to the same JBC unit you are speaking of So my question is If you compare similar high thermal mass tip say the T-22 C6 that hakko offers to a large 245  bevel 6mm size tip of the same thermal mass which one is better in your opinion esp on  4+ multilayer boards  that have thick ground planes commenly found  in high power Silver Box SMPS supplys any info you can give me what great be greatly appreciated as I've spent a lot of time trying to decide which one but have never been able to come up with a proper decision and you cant just try before you buy

And again kudos to you for actually mentioning using a 2030 style handpiece there's no reviews for those at all that I have found on the internet other than the stupid eye on hakko videos in which they do not show the use of the units at all just talk of what they do

[thm_w]

Hello your post caught my eye especially the fact you mentioned the hakko   fm2030 I have never seen anyone talk about using this handpiece almost like it doesn't exist I am thinking of getting a soldering statione upgrade to the FM203 that I have and that handle and tip combination may work, or jumping to the same JBC unit you are speaking of So my question is If you compare similar high thermal mass tip say the T-22 C6 that hakko offers to a large 245  bevel 6mm size tip of the same thermal mass which one is better in your opinion esp on  4+ multilayer boards  that have thick ground planes commenly found  in high power Silver Box SMPS supplys any info you can give me what great be greatly appreciated as I've spent a lot of time trying to decide which one but have never been able to come up with a proper decision and you cant just try before you buy

And again kudos to you for actually mentioning using a 2030 style handpiece there's no reviews for those at all that I have found on the internet other than the stupid eye on hakko videos in which they do not show the use of the units at all just talk of what they do

If you already have the FM203, its ~$140 for a 2030 handle, base, and a tip.

Hakko has a few good products, but I agree their videos are useless at actually demonstrating anything relevant. Marketing for Hakko/Metcal is a joke.

[vstrulev]

Good day everyone. My two cents here. I have few soldering stations including two Hakko stations, one of which mentioned in this thread. No one of them satisfied my needs and I was moving up and up until I pulled the plug and got a good one. I end up buying the Weller WX2020, which is two channel station, with two soldering irons: 120W and 200W and later I've bought the Weller tweezers as well. If I start from very beginning, I would just buy that Weller with all the above mentioned irons/tweezers and forget the rest (an old saying: buy once, cry once). I'm totally satisfied and able to do anything with it. Sometimes I solder heavy gauge wires (4GA) and shank terminals to the 2.4mm pcb with large copper polygons. The Weller is able to handle it all. I understand this is an expensive tool, but if you do work/rework/assemby, good tool is a must. So final thought: all my soldering stations together cost about the same if not more than that Weller and instead of having the table filled with all different station, have just one capable of anything. 

[Hydrawerk]

Weller WX2020 is probably good but I have never seen it personally. It is not discussed much on this forum. Are you happy with the RT tips range? https://weller-tools.com/nocompromise/media/pdf/en/RT_Active_Tip_Brochure_GB_en.pdf
Is there a Weller mini spoon tip available? Like these JBC tips? https://www.jbctools.com/cartridges-category-4-design-Spoon-menu-4.html
It is called miniwave by PACE.
https://paceworldwide.com/angled-miniwave-tip_1130-0035-P1

[vstrulev]

Weller WX2020 is probably good but I have never seen it personally. It is not discussed much on this forum. Are you happy with the RT tips range? https://weller-tools.com/nocompromise/media/pdf/en/RT_Active_Tip_Brochure_GB_en.pdf
Is there a Weller mini spoon tip available? Like these JBC tips? https://www.jbctools.com/cartridges-category-4-design-Spoon-menu-4.html
It is called miniwave by PACE.
https://paceworldwide.com/angled-miniwave-tip_1130-0035-P1

I own a PnP; a couple of ovens; and hot base/air tool and most of my soldering done on those tools. The Weller 200W is used for large TH components, such as shank terminals and heavy gauge wires. Tweezers I use it for replacing and fixing SMD parts and so far I was able to handle everything I needed. The 120W used for everything else. The Weller reaches the temps super fast, which is important for me. The other nice feature: I have three tools: 200W/120W/and tweezers and I swap them occasionally. All the settings are kept in those irons itself. Even if you change the Weller station and plug your iron in it, it has your profile without you setting this up. Love the Weller. This is very subjective thing as both stations are great. This is why I mention my two cents only ;-)

[Hydrawerk]

Well, PACE does not offer any high power soldering station. JBC has the HDE with 250W peak (??) power.
https://www.jbctools.com/hde-heavy-duty-product-933.html
No such station from PACE there. :-(((

[jonpaul]

bonjour à tous, just joining this intéressant thread now.
First used soldering irons in 1950s, was Ungar.

As an Engineer and consultant, 1970s..1990s,   TH  prototypes, power supplies, analog, 

1/Préfère  vintage Hakko analog   926, 936,  (photo 1) workhorses, no failures in decades, good temp régulation and safety. Used only genuine Hakko tips
Good cable, great tips, comfortable handle design.
I had not used the newer digital Hakko yellow..blue.

2/ Wellers, were OK, but nothing special, 
No opinion on Pace or   desolder stations.

3/ 1990..1993 I consulted for Raychem/Metcal, to design the 500 kHz resonant current drive SP-200 station for their SmartHeat (tm) system tips.
photo 2

The Metcal patent uses  induction heating in the tip material rather than a separate heater and thermostat or thermocouple.
Very long lasting tips and handles, my 1993 versions are  still in service!

The Metcal tip  temperature is tightly regulated,  fixed by a controlled curie point of tip material.
Design goal similar performance as the original 13.5 MHz  versions, without the issues of the coax cable, connector and less chance of RF interference.
We had to achieve fast warmup, 20 second max from cold to 90% temp,
Temp at tip was tested for the temp/time curve with  a special  thermocouple implanted inside the solder tip
 

4/ Metcal has the Best control of temperature even for massive ground plane or thick Power supply leads and wires. Great for power and SMD rework
My design for  Metcal SP-200 became a classic, 100s k units sold,  licensed to  OK industry and Tech Tool. 
 
photo 3


5/The older 13.5 MHz  versions   coax connectors  can be mismated.  I think the   performance is similar to the 500 kHz., which  used a  4 pin DIN connector.

 
I am now happily retired, I still have my SP-200 prototypes   and   Metcal stations and tips. The alternative is Hakko 936.
Just the ramblings of an old retired EE...
happy soldering...

Bon courage


Jon

[thm_w]

5/ Beware of the older 13.5 MHz ISO versions with coax connector. The connection is flaky. no idea their performance.  My  500 kHz design used a  4 pin DIN connector.

The coax works OK, but its not self evident how the connection works and some may have been abused.
13MHz performance is a bit better than 500kHz models.

[loki42]

I haven't ever tried the 500 kHz options but my Metcal has never had a problem with connections over many 1000 of joints and use by 5 different employees.  I also got it very second hand... if the 500 kHz versions are better I'd he interested to see,  I always assumed they were just the budget end. 

[thm_w]

I haven't ever tried the 500 kHz options but my Metcal has never had a problem with connections over many 1000 of joints and use by 5 different employees.  I also got it very second hand... if the 500 kHz versions are better I'd he interested to see,  I always assumed they were just the budget end.

They are the budget end yes, but still perform well.
The later units have two ports, so I'm sure they had a few complaints about the time taken to plug and unplug the connector properly.