Author Topic: Good AOI system to start with?  (Read 7858 times)

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Offline SMTech

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Re: Good AOI system to start with?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2021, 04:51:14 pm »
I got their inspection platform with all the ancillary elements (LED lights, ESD mat, camera -SONY Alpha-, lens, microcomputer and monitor) for less than 1950 USD. A bargain if you ask me. I guess that the price will get increased as the company gets popular.
$1950 is quite a lot of money when they have a recurrent earning business model.

If it helps, Quinns, which uses "physiological perception" with alternating images to guide you through a board costs 10 times that and still has a recurrent earning business model (which is not reflected on their website that still claims free updates). That pricing is per month/year per feature rather than board but its still there and its not insignificant either if you take the whole suite. AOISystems however remains lifetime updates for free for broadly similar money to Quinns. Both those systems do a much better job of fault tracking, recording and navigating those records than what seems to be possible with Agnos. I would expect some kind of annual fee from most AOI manufacturers to stay up to date, but be able to not pay it and still remain functional. I couldn't quite determine with Quinns if that was possible and it wasn;t clear if that is because he was German an not understanding exactly what I was asking, or if he was avoiding answering my very pointed direction of questioning.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: Good AOI system to start with?
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2021, 04:53:44 am »
My point is, I think they might have different customer target like smaller manufacturing outfit like one man band like me or small CM. So, at this scale, it is considered expensive, at least to me.

Offline SMTech

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Re: Good AOI system to start with?
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2021, 08:36:20 am »
My point is, I think they might have different customer target like smaller manufacturing outfit like one man band like me or small CM. So, at this scale, it is considered expensive, at least to me.

Oh I agree, I think there's some work to be done to find a cheaper camera setup that works or a DIY rig using a scanner like you find in first article inspection systems. There's loads of affordable inspection cameras on Aliexpress, most of them are for closeup work but there is probably a combo in there somewhere that has a lens that can take in a whole board.

Of course a scanner is much slower, but I don't see that matters to many users, guess it depends where it is in the line and how quickly they come off whatever process is prior to your inspection.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 08:50:39 am by SMTech »
 

Offline jordi

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Re: Good AOI system to start with?
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2021, 12:15:06 am »
Hello,

I'm a happy user of AgnosPCB and I have to say that many of the comments here are not exactly fair. I do own a professional AOI machine from Mirtec, and those machines cost around $90-120K brand new, depending on the accessories. So paying $2K is a joke (assuming it works correctly as advertised, right?). Well, to be fair, my AOI is in-line, so you can probably shove $15K if you get a bench version (But I think Mirtec no longer makes them).

When I started using Agnos with a laptop and the Sony camera (using the Sony software), I realized the potential, however, the user experience was very bad. There is no way my operators will ever use it because they are always in a hurry. So I'm honored to say that I'm the one that has been pushing/begging Agnos to automate the process and the latest version achieves that(day and night difference). However I opted to make my own setup, also using the T-Slots, to be honest, depending on your country it might and not might be worthed, I spent like 5-6 days figuring out a good setup, and if you factor the salary of an eng. in California plus the parts, it would've been probably cheaper just to get it from them.

After several months we finally received the update, now the process became fully automated. Just press one button and you are done. It is SO good, that I even stopped using my Mirtec, and yes, you will say whatever, but anyone is welcome to visit my shop here in San Diego, California, and try it (and I mean it, we like visitors). ;-)

A friend of mine based in Colorado that owns the biggest web electronic shop, that makes most of the dev board in red color and starts with "S" also has one because I recommended it. He had a very bad initial experience, but after having a quick video call I figured his issue was because the camera was very high and slightly out of focus, after ironing those tiny details he was impressed that it was able to catch errors not even the Nordson AOI could.

Very, very important points to consider:
->Always use the same illumination (crucial).
->Use a Sony Alpha Camera (we tried Canon and no).
->Always place the panel at the position and height. +- few millimeters it is ok.
->Use the automated system (don't do it manually, it is really not practical and yields very bad results). If there is anything I can advise to Agnos, is to ban any users from using their phones and not good quality setups. You need to keep it simple, an environment with repeatable conditions in order to offer a good user experience. Otherwise what I'm reading here will continue to happen, which leads to a loss of interest and customers (and sadly, the support of what  I believe is a great innovative product).
->I guess that experience has something to do here, so if you have never used a Professional AOI, then some of the fundamentals (like good illumination) are not really clear, so don't be afraid to ask.


 
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Offline Jackster

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Re: Good AOI system to start with?
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2021, 02:45:58 am »
We are running a batch right now and I am happy to try out the service and do a review if AgnosPCB sends me a test account.

I am totally trustworthy....

I accept BTC or Doge as bribes

Offline Calder

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Re: Good AOI system to start with?
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2022, 08:46:21 am »
After all this time, did you get a chance to check the integrity of your batch with this AOI system?
 


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