What is happening with JLCPB?

[rob77]

very interesting.. another brand new forum user complaining about JLCPCB ...

whooping 24$ for a 5x5 panel...

[thm_w]

i have had similar problems. almost three weeks ago i received some pcbs from jlcpcb, part of a joint order from some users of an internet forum for which we paid $24. the boards were panelized, 5 rows by 5 columns, and surprisingly in the upper left area the silkscreen on the top layer of some pcbs was missing. on the bottom layer everything was in order. the pcbs depend on each other and contain dacs and level shifters, there are about 15 connections and the silkscreen on the top layer is essential to know how to connect them.

So silkscreen was missing in some areas on some of the boards, how many total were affected? Can you post a photo?
Honestly not too surprised I'm sure the silkscreen machine regularly runs out of ink and needs to be refilled.

What you can do is go to your PCB software, print out a copy of the silkscreen, then you have that reference beside you when you assemble the boards.

[Cerebus]

One more mind-bogglingly absurd example. it is known JLCPCB send an e-mail every time a new order goes into production and, days later, another one to notify that it has been shipped. We assume that this is an automatic process in which a server sends an e-mail once the order changes to that status, so how is it possible that for one of my orders, I never received the e-mail when it went into production but I did when it was shipped? Some will think that it was my anti-spam filter or my spam box (which do not exist), failures in my mail service provider,... in short that it was my fault. I won't go into details but suffice it to say that in my case it is more likely that one day the sun won't rise than one of my e-mails will be lost. At the time I was surprised but given the continuous disappointments with the Live chat and the support service, I assumed that it was not important, that sooner or later the progress of the order would continue and that it was not worth contacting to ask what had happened. Is this a serious issue? No. Is it an important issue? No. Just another drop in their ocean of issues.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. SMTP email is NOT an infallible process. I've been sys-admining SMTP mail for well over 1/4 of a century. Speaking as a genuine domain expert I can say that your claim "I won't go into details but suffice it to say that in my case it is more likely that one day the sun won't rise than one of my e-mails will be lost." is utter bull. I'm sorry for being blunt to the point of rudeness but I've had my fill of Dunning-Kruger cases today and I can say with absolute certainty that someone who would make the assertion you have does not know what they are talking about, in fact does not know how email works because so much of the process is out of control of the receiving party that no knowledge person would make that claim.

On the other hand I don't know why the recurring fallacy of the "too cheap" price comes up again and again. Anyone could say, "you paid 'only' N dollars? then what are you complaining about?" but, unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way - how much would you have to pay to have the right to complain? There is an implicit and explicit contract between supplier and customer, even more after years ordering, and price and quality minimums are included in the agreement. I understand that someone does not like those prices and always has the freedom to opt for other manufacturers but that does not imply that paid a price, the customer has no rights. By the way, including all the extra costs I am paying around $20 per order (for each order in a batch), sometimes more, and shipping costs around $30 and $40 (depending on the number of orders in each batch); not just the $2 or $4 offers.

I constantly find myself amazed that JLCPCB can charge what they do and still make some money on the deal. Moreover they turn out decent boards for that price. Go and get yourself a quote from a European or American board house before you start talking about prices. $20 for an order? So what! That's peanuts. That wouldn't even pay for a single 160x100mm eurocard board from an EU/US board house. Basic JLCPCB 2 layer board, 100 x 160mm, 10 off = $17.50. Same order, same capabilities as the JLCPCB process = $232.78 from eurocircuits. Get real, you're getting a bargain for your $20.

You must have heard the statement "You pays your money and you takes your choice". By choosing to pay as little as JLC ask you're implicitly accepting that you're getting "cheap and cheerful" service. If you expect top of the line service, from a top of the line board house you will have to pay for that, and you will pay considerably more than you do with JLC. The $20 you pay to have a set of boards custom manufactured for you, with two silkscreens, two solder masks, and through plated holes would not even buy you a pub lunch in London. I suspect it wouldn't buy you the equivalent meal in Tokyo either.

If you read and interpret their capabilities statements correctly (which frankly can be a bit vague at times and looks like it has suffered a bit in the chinglish department), set those capabilities properly for your board and deal with any DRC issues your boards will sail through JLCPCB. I've pushed 2 and 4 layer boards with 0.5mm pitch ICs on through JLCPCB and have received acceptable results every single time, and I'm a fussy, demanding bastard when it comes to quality. If they pass my informal quality standards (I don't do incoming inspection of them with my Mitutoyo metrology equipment, but I could if I wanted to) then I suspect that they are good enough for anybody. Yes, the slikscreen on the 2 layer prototype process could be better, but on the 4 layer process the silkscreen has been faultless, soldermask pristine, and I really can't see what I'd get better by paying a lot more elsewhere.

The only problem I ever had was on one 2 layer prototype order for 5 boards where they came back "Sorry there is a fault on one board and we don't think it's good enough to send out. OK if we credit you for this board?". So I got a $2 credit on a $2.50 (plus postage) order for accepting 4 boards instead of 5.

[Yuto]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

It was intended to be just a way of emphasizing that it is extremely likely that the e-mail was never sent due to bugs in JLC's servers as well as pointing out that curious skepticism that goes so far as to deny facts because it doesn't fit with their alternative version of reality. Sorry for the surreal touch of poetic license, I never thought it could be interpreted literally.

I constantly find myself amazed that JLCPCB can charge what they do and still make some money on the deal. Moreover they turn out decent boards for that price.

We all understand, we all know that there are other manufacturers, we also know what prices they charge and we choose where to place our orders based on the quality/price ratio required for a design but that is not the point.

During all these years with JLC I have received thousands of boards, and as with other board manufacturers, in very specific conditions with no problems or very sporadic problems. Again, in case you have not read the previous posts, I neither demand nor pretend to demand higher quality standards from them, their capabilities and conditions are published and I know what to expect regarding their products but again, I am just stating that in the last year the number of errors and problems has skyrocketed. Again, in other words because I know perfectly well that it will not be understood by those who do not want to see it, here I am just talking about the huge differences between orders placed with JLC before 2021 and after, that is, comparing differences between orders from the same manufacturer.

Again, as I said I routinely work with JLCPCB as well as other manufacturers according to their capabilities and the requirements of each design. I would like to think that if their problems are exposed, they will have enough room for improvement that I can continue to order from them for the type of orders I usually count on them for.

But well, we can focus on this matter or talk about other "more relevant" as if I had a typo or elaborate sophisticated conspiracy theories about why, after years reading and knowing the cordiality, education and extreme empathy that any new user could expect, I have registered just now to write specifically on this topic.

[Cerebus]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

It was intended to be just a way of emphasizing that it is extremely likely that the e-mail was never sent due to bugs in JLC's servers as well as pointing out that curious skepticism that goes so far as to deny facts because it doesn't fit with their alternative version of reality. Sorry for the surreal touch of poetic license, I never thought it could be interpreted literally.

I constantly find myself amazed that JLCPCB can charge what they do and still make some money on the deal. Moreover they turn out decent boards for that price.

We all understand, we all know that there are other manufacturers, we also know what prices they charge and we choose where to place our orders based on the quality/price ratio but that is not the point.

During all these years with JLC I have received thousands of boards, and as with other board manufacturers, in very specific conditions with no problems or very sporadic problems. Again, in case you have not read the previous posts, I neither demand nor pretend to demand higher quality standards from them, their capabilities and conditions are published and I know what to expect regarding their products but again, I am just stating that in the last year the number of errors and problems has skyrocketed. Again, in other words because I know perfectly well that it will not be understood by those who do not want to see it, here I am just talking about the huge differences between orders placed with JLC before 2021 and after, that is, comparing differences between orders from the same manufacturer.

Again, as I said I routinely work with JLCPCB as well as other manufacturers according to their capabilities and the requirements of each design. I would like to think that if their problems are exposed, they will have enough room for improvement that I can continue to order from them for the type of orders I usually count on them for.

But well, we can focus on this matter or talk about other "more relevant" as if I had a typo or elaborate sophisticated conspiracy theories about why, after years reading and knowing the cordiality, education and extreme empathy that any new user could expect, I have registered just now to write specifically on this topic.

The only reason for pointing out price issues is because you were making such a fuss about the expenditure of $20 and fretting that that entitled you to an unspecified but clearly superior level of service over the plebs ordering $2 and $4 boards. For what it's worth my usual order with them is north of that $20 figure by some way but I'm more than happy with the service I've received. I've also put in dinky "virtually free" $2 and $4 orders because I can, and I've received exactly the same service and quality for those.

You conveniently ignore the point where I say I have had no problems with them, and for the avoidance of doubt I'm talking about the last year. You are the only person making the claim that they have gone downhill in the last year.

There are hundreds of JLC users on the forum, and apart from odd complaints about odd individual orders we're hearing no general complaints about a general decline in quality. Nobody has pitched in to this thread to say "me too". (Rob77's message notwithstanding, that's a complaint about an individual order, not a year long decline over many orders.) That would lead a reasonable person to conclude that the deciding factor is you. Either you're expecting too much (and that would be rich, as I've indicated I've had faultless product from them all year), or you're chucking stuff at them that's out of shape and takes engineering time to fix that hitherto they've had the spare capacity to waste on fixing up your jobs but don't any more as they have got busier, or as has been suggested by the more cynical, that you're a shill for one of their competitors here to kick up a fuss and blacken their name.

Whatever, your case for declining quality doesn't hold up unless a statistically significant number of other people chime in and say "I'm seeing a decline in quality too". So far there is no sign of that, just your lone voice. One swallow does not a summer make, to coin a phrase.

Is there anyone else here whose direct experience leads them to believe that JLC's quality is falling recently? If so, speak up!

[Yuto]

The only reason for pointing out price issues is because you were making such a fuss about the expenditure of $20

The only reason for pointing out price issues is because someone said how could I expect anything from JLCPCB paying only $2 or $4 which was not true.

and fretting that that entitled you to an unspecified but clearly superior level of service over the plebs ordering $2 and $4 boards.

At no time have I ever said or implied anything like that.

You conveniently ignore the point where I say I have had no problems with them,

I was not interested in that because I fully understand that they have no problem with each and every order. For me it is not relevant and, as it is well known and as far as consumer complaints are concerned, it is rare the case where a company has problems with all customers. Even with thousands of claims, a company with millions of customers will always have a majority of customers who will never claim anything.

I also understand that there are simpler orders and others that are more complex and customized. I also don't know exactly the statistics about all the orders they have but I guess there is a big demand for boards that were already made before which usually have no issues like, for example, when someone downloads gerbers from github to order them.

or as has been suggested by the more cynical, that you're a shill for one of their competitors here to kick up a fuss and blacken their name.

The most cynical or the usual trolls or people with conflicts of interest as users who make money for advertising or referring them or community managers, etc.

Their competitors do not need any new user to come here and blacken their name, there are already too many users who repeat the "you have paid for what you get" in a clear derogatory allusion to their low-cost policies.

There are hundreds of JLC users on the forum, and apart from odd complaints about odd individual orders

After signing up and before opening this new theme, I searched and read all about JLCPCB. If I remember correctly for each and every one of the problems I have had during this last year, there is at least one user who has mentioned it before. Scratches, omissions in silkscreen, units without any silkscreen at all, endless and pointless conversations by Live Chat,... and problems that I have never had like a recent post from an user who stated that when his gerbers were rejected, he had just to re-upload the same files to get them accepted.

I also do not know how many users have a constant flow of orders and how many have been in that situation for years and are in a position to notice the differences; or how many are on vacation right now. But yes, it would be nice if in the coming weeks, someone, even what the authors of the posts I have mentioned, say "me too" consciously ignoring that they can be criticized and receive false counter-accusations just for saying what some others do not want to hear.

[rox77]

don't think was a problem with the ink refill, it was no silkscreen on the top layer at all for some pcbs, quoting jlcpcb's message "our engineer made mistake"

i also print a copy of the edge cuts plus solder mask plus top silkscreen layers for the assembly but these pcbs were made to be used in tests and measurements. the silkscreen is essential to set the pins you need for input bits, d0, d1, ... d15, for power supply and output pins

So silkscreen was missing in some areas on some of the boards, how many total were affected? Can you post a photo?
Honestly not too surprised I'm sure the silkscreen machine regularly runs out of ink and needs to be refilled.

What you can do is go to your PCB software, print out a copy of the silkscreen, then you have that reference beside you when you assemble the boards.

[rox77]

me too! although my current relationship with this company is more modest, on average only 1.44 orders per week, one order every 4.86 days

in the last delivery i got 4 orders and i had to open two quality claims. one for random stains during the solder mask application process for which i have a $1 coupon for my next orders and another, as you may have read, for the complete absence of the silkscreen on the top layer on some pcbs due to an engineer's mistake for which they are going to remake them and reship to me in the next days

i prefer not to interact with customer service. for quality issues after days of exchanging emails, they always refer you to the quality complaint form, since then i always go directly to that form, and out of 10 of the rest of my queries, 9 were during the design phase to confirm a limit or constraint that i could not find in the online help because the search tool does not provide answers to very specific questions such as minimum diameter of..., minimum size of.... for the other one, which i really needed and it was a delicate issue for me but imho could have been solved with an easy recommendation, i felt ignored and was told to google it, something i had already done in advance but needed to expand with specific information on the manufacturing process that only jlcpcb knows

The only reason for pointing out price issues is because you were making such a fuss about the expenditure of $20

The only reason for pointing out price issues is because someone said how could I expect anything from JLCPCB paying only $2 or $4 which was not true.

and fretting that that entitled you to an unspecified but clearly superior level of service over the plebs ordering $2 and $4 boards.

At no time have I ever said or implied anything like that.

You conveniently ignore the point where I say I have had no problems with them,

I was not interested in that because I fully understand that they have no problem with each and every order. For me it is not relevant and, as it is well known and as far as consumer complaints are concerned, it is rare the case where a company has problems with all customers. Even with thousands of claims, a company with millions of customers will always have a majority of customers who will never claim anything.

I also understand that there are simpler orders and others that are more complex and customized. I also don't know exactly the statistics about all the orders they have but I guess there is a big demand for boards that were already made before which usually have no issues like, for example, when someone downloads gerbers from github to order them.

or as has been suggested by the more cynical, that you're a shill for one of their competitors here to kick up a fuss and blacken their name.

The most cynical or the usual trolls or people with conflicts of interest as users who make money for advertising or referring them or community managers, etc.

Their competitors do not need any new user to come here and blacken their name, there are already too many users who repeat the "you have paid for what you get" in a clear derogatory allusion to their low-cost policies.

There are hundreds of JLC users on the forum, and apart from odd complaints about odd individual orders

After signing up and before opening this new theme, I searched and read all about JLCPCB. If I remember correctly for each and every one of the problems I have had during this last year, there is at least one user who has mentioned it before. Scratches, omissions in silkscreen, units without any silkscreen at all, endless and pointless conversations by Live Chat,... and problems that I have never had like a recent post from an user who stated that when his gerbers were rejected, he had just to re-upload the same files to get them accepted.

I also do not know how many users have a constant flow of orders and how many have been in that situation for years and are in a position to notice the differences; or how many are on vacation right now. But yes, it would be nice if in the coming weeks, someone, even what the authors of the posts I have mentioned, say "me too" consciously ignoring that they can be criticized and receive false counter-accusations just for saying what some others do not want to hear.

[Cerebus]

Let me ask that question again: Is there any other person here seeing declining quality from JLC over the last year who has not signed up to the board for the first time in the last week?

[zaan]

We order at JLC at work (Since 2018, now about 90+ orders from 2 layer up to 6 layer and 70u copper)

I compared them different other manufacturers where we have ordered: NextPCB, AllPCB, PCBWay, PCBCart, Aisler, MultiCB, Eurocircuits

Occasional scratches do happen (not only at JLC) but they were not critical in any way on my orders. JLC support is very helpful in my experience and are willing to send you coupons if a board is not the way you have expected.

What is my/our experience?
We as a company and myself as a maker will keep ordering at JLC. Compared to others the quality is good. Our 6 layer 70um PCBs are really complex and all of them worked so far.
The processing time is really fast and it is the fastest way for us to get PCBs at a really attractive price.

PCBA is another topic for a different discussion. (In my opinion a very nice service from JLC. Competitors can´t offer those lead times right now)

In the picture attached you can see this 6 layer PCB from JLC with a BGA and clearance of 0.2mm, this is not an easy task for a manufacturer at 70um copper. Maybe the silkscreen could be sharper, but it is fine for us.

[asmi]

Let me ask that question again: Is there any other person here seeing declining quality from JLC over the last year who has not signed up to the board for the first time in the last week?

I had a few orders from them over past year, and while the quality wasn't perfect compared to some other fabs I work with, I didn't notice any change over that period of time - I would say it's the same as it has always been, with a bit of a hit-and-miss, but never to the point that it made boards unuseable for the intended purpose - i.e. prototypes. Like I said, I use a more upscale fab for my production needs because my customers are willing to pay up for high quality (and it makes less of a headache for me in case I need to rework/repair boards after assembly, because JLCPCB's soldermask generally can not withstand rework in my experience), as well as for prototypes with RF or complex analog sections - again because of the soldermask, as these sections typically require a lot of tuning (==rework) cycles to get it to work properly, but that is not to be construed as my complaint about JLCPCB's quality - you get what you pay for, and they are clearly provide a product for a price, and it's hard to overstate the importance of having such services on a market, as it opened possibilities for so many people who simply can't afford - or are not willing to pay - higher end services.

So you can count my voice contrary to this claim. I only wish they would change their 6 layer stackup to make it suitable for high-speed desigs - make cores thinner, and instead use thicker prepregs in the middle of the stackup, something like on attached picture.

[Cerebus]

So you can count my voice contrary to this claim. I only wish they would change their 6 layer stackup to make it suitable for high-speed desigs - make cores thinner, and instead use thicker prepregs in the middle of the stackup, something like on attached picture.

As I was reading that I was thinking "OK for you but I can never imagine I'd need 6 layer unless I was pushed" then I realised that I might not strictly need it but I might use it. With the low prices available now there's a sort of reverse version of "opportunity cost" going on - I've started using 4 layer for designs I could surely produce successfully on 2 layer*, but because it costs so little more to jump to 4 layer and get power and ground planes I do. Perhaps I'll find myself applying the same logic to 6 layer in the future.

*The one literally sitting on my screen as I type fits exactly those criteria. It replaces a THT board that was 2 layer (and much bigger) but circuitry wise (i.e. topology wise) it's very similar to the board it emulates, so I know that a 2 layer board is (1) doable routing wise, (2) probably has perfectly adequate signal integrity wise. (Mixed signal - analogue at DC with 2MHz current switching, digital at 20MHz.)

[Yuto]

The offer for 4-layer is for boards up to 50x50 mm while the offer for 2-layer is for boards up to 100x100 mm. Because of this, since my orders usually include panelized boards or multiple designs per board, I will stick with the 2-layer boards whenever possible.

in the last delivery i got 4 orders and i had to open two quality claims.

That is, 2 quality complaints in a recent batch of 4 orders. Problems with soldermask, screen printing,... and for errors recognized by JLCPCB. Interesting.


Apparently, the factors affecting the likelihood of ending up with an issue include the frequency of orders, panelized boards and/or boards with multiple designs.

It does not hurt to recap on what I am considering as a progressive deterioration in quality of service: problems with silkscreen, soldermask, packaging, scratches, quality complaints and also problems with customer service.

It seems that customers who tend to place few orders, of single boards without panelizing and without multiple designs per board, do not tend to appreciate differences in quality. If by "quality" we mean receiving boards in the same condition as before 2021, if I had placed only a few orders myself, I might not have noticed any difference. It's purely a matter of statistics.

[Mangozac]

It seems that customers who tend to place few orders, of single boards without paneling and without multiple designs per board, do not tend to appreciate differences in quality. If by "quality" we mean receiving boards in the same condition as before 2021, if I had placed only a few orders myself, I might not have noticed any difference. It's purely a matter of statistics.

I strongly disagree. Almost all of our designs are panelised (mostly by JLC but many also by us if it's anything other than a simple v-groove OR different boards). We've had tens of thousands of 2-layer boards from JLC over the past 2 years and have not noticed any overall decline in quality. Yes, there has been the occasional less than perfect silkscreen but frankly for the price nothing unacceptable. They did screw up a stencil one time but customer service was quick to resolve it and send us a correct replacement.

[RPX]

I am a customer since 2019 and I have routinely ordered circuit boards for assembling clones of peripherals for old microcomputers from the 80s, but generally my orders are few and far between. In the past year, I have had two incidents involving silk-screening and scratching, but since I assumed that if I complained, the most I would get was a coupon for a few cents, I didn't waste time complaining. Previously I have never had an incident.

[cgroen]

Here we go again....
I have just received my order number 240 from JLC (95% 4 layer, the rest 2 layer). This 240th order in fact had a problem (se later on).
I started using JLC in september 2017.
Last year (2021) I had a total of 78 orders with them.

Not a SINGLE one of these 240 orders where at fault (of course I have had the "sorry sir, one of your boards are defect, would you like us to redo the order or discount you the one board?" questions (less than 5 in total), but the boards I have received has all been perfect.

I'm not saying that the silkscreen could not be "more perfect", but for the price you pay, they are more than perfect.

As I wrote, the 240th order I "received" was in error (this is first time since I started using JLC). I received "my boards" this monday, only problem was that the boards were not mine! Somehow they got swopped in shipping at JLC (the paper slip with my order number was correct, it was "just" the boards them self that was wrong. The unlucky thing was that the boards I got did not have the usual JLC internal order number on it, so I could not pass that on. Within a couple of days, JLCPCB chased down the customer that had gotten my boards (he was in Germany), I called him and we shipped each others board to the rightful owners
JLCPCB of course offered to pay for our shipping (to be expected), I'm receiving my boards in a couple of hours.

This is how my dealings with JLC has been so far.
(and I have used European producers in the past for prototypes so I do VERY well know what the cost is (been in the game for 35+ years now) !)

[Yuto]

I strongly disagree. Almost all of our designs are panelised (mostly by JLC but many also by us if it's anything other than a simple v-groove OR different boards).

I think it is to be expected that the errors of engineers with boards panelized by customers are more frequent than with boards panelized by JLCPCB. In the first case they have to adapt the gerber files to their own software so data preparation is more complex; in the second case the panelization is done directly in their own CAD system so data preparation is, in practice, routine and straightforward.

We've had tens of thousands of 2-layer boards from JLC over the past 2 years

And of those tens of thousands, were mostly of them identical?

(of course I have had the "sorry sir, one of your boards are defect, would you like us to redo the order or discount you the one board?" questions (less than 5 in total),

I would have loved to receive such an email but with my orders I have been unlucky enough to receive the boards in not so good condition but I'm glad to know that in the last week on at least two occasions and before the boards have been shipped, they have taken this kind of preventive actions due to quality problems by sending notification emails informing of the problems they had found and the expected delay in the boards production.

If it's okay with you, I'd like to ask: were the orders for those 5 boards that had issues but finally arrived well and the one that was delivered with issues mostly from the last year?

I'm not saying that the silkscreen could not be "more perfect", but for the price you pay, they are more than perfect.

As I know it can lead to misunderstandings, I should clarify that I am not talking about the overall quality of the silkscreen. The web is full of pictures taken with microscopes comparing the overall quality of the silkscreen for different manufacturers and... I don't think I need to add anything else. I am specifically talking about boards without silkscreen in some of its layers, lack of silkscreen in some area or considerable scratches, in my case typically on the bottom layer of the boards.

Basically we use vacuum for some sizes of boards where it is possible to apply the vacuum technique...

As an example, I received a batch with 5 orders, 4 of them wrapped in vacuum bubble wrap; the other in a sealed bag larger than the boards, with nothing to prevent the boards from moving freely inside the bag, making scratches possible due to friction between them.

I have never received anything using this packaging before despite the difference in the size of boards on previous orders but I understand that it could be just a coincidence.

Can you provide me some photos for package?[/b]

Of course. Here they are.

[cgroen]

(of course I have had the "sorry sir, one of your boards are defect, would you like us to redo the order or discount you the one board?" questions (less than 5 in total),

I would have loved to receive such an email but with my boards I have been unlucky enough to receive them in not so good condition but something must be changing, I know that in the last week on at least two occasions and before the boards have been shipped, they have taken this kind of preventive actions due to quality problems by sending notification emails informing of the problems they had found and the expected delay in the boards production.

If it's okay with you, I'd like to ask: were the orders for those 5 boards that had issues but finally arrived well and the one that was delivered with issues mostly from the last year?

I checked. I have had no problems at all in the whole of 2021. And that is with 78 orders for 2021. To be fair, I did not check further back when these "less than 5" actually occurred, but I'm 100% sure that they did not come in bursts, but was rather "spread out" over a few years (but none in 2021)

The boards I got (which had been delivered to another cusomer first) was all in fine shape.
Picture (sorry, a bit blurry) attached below

[Cerebus]

(of course I have had the "sorry sir, one of your boards are defect, would you like us to redo the order or discount you the one board?" questions (less than 5 in total),

I would have loved to receive such an email but with my boards I have been unlucky enough to receive them in not so good condition but something must be changing, I know that in the last week on at least two occasions and before the boards have been shipped, they have taken this kind of preventive actions due to quality problems by sending notification emails informing of the problems they had found and the expected delay in the boards production.

If it's okay with you, I'd like to ask: were the orders for those 5 boards that had issues but finally arrived well and the one that was delivered with issues mostly from the last year?

I checked. I have had no problems at all in the whole of 2021. And that is with 78 orders for 2021. To be fair, I did not check further back when these "less than 5" actually occurred, but I'm 100% sure that they did not come in bursts, but was rather "spread out" over a few years (but none in 2021)

The boards I got (which had been delivered to another cusomer first) was all in fine shape.
Picture (sorry, a bit blurry) attached below

Ooo, ooo! I've got a question for you. That BGA, what's the pitch and pad size, and what's the trace and spacing (minimum clearance) on the fanouts? Reason for asking is that my one complaint about JLC is the opaqueness and apparent contradictions in some of their capabilities statements and I'd very much like to know what has worked for other people with regard to BGAs.

[cgroen]

(of course I have had the "sorry sir, one of your boards are defect, would you like us to redo the order or discount you the one board?" questions (less than 5 in total),

I would have loved to receive such an email but with my boards I have been unlucky enough to receive them in not so good condition but something must be changing, I know that in the last week on at least two occasions and before the boards have been shipped, they have taken this kind of preventive actions due to quality problems by sending notification emails informing of the problems they had found and the expected delay in the boards production.

If it's okay with you, I'd like to ask: were the orders for those 5 boards that had issues but finally arrived well and the one that was delivered with issues mostly from the last year?

I checked. I have had no problems at all in the whole of 2021. And that is with 78 orders for 2021. To be fair, I did not check further back when these "less than 5" actually occurred, but I'm 100% sure that they did not come in bursts, but was rather "spread out" over a few years (but none in 2021)

The boards I got (which had been delivered to another cusomer first) was all in fine shape.
Picture (sorry, a bit blurry) attached below

Ooo, ooo! I've got a question for you. That BGA, what's the pitch and pad size, and what's the trace and spacing (minimum clearance) on the fanouts? Reason for asking is that my one complaint about JLC is the opaqueness and apparent contradictions in some of their capabilities statements and I'd very much like to know what has worked for other people with regard to BGAs.

BGA is 0.8 pitch. The balls are each 0.45 mm in diameter. The VIA's are 0.45/0.2 mm. Tracks are 6 mil wide. Clearance (track/track) is 3.5 mil (I used JLC's rules for my DRC).

[Cerebus]

BGA is 0.8 pitch. The balls are each 0.45 mm in diameter. The VIA's are 0.45/0.2 mm. Tracks are 6 mil wide. Clearance (track/track) is 3.5 mil (I used JLC's rules for my DRC).

Thank you. It looked a bit smaller to me. I'll add that to my list of "they can definitely do this" BGA qualifications.

[tbavcevic]

been using jlc for some time now, never any error or any issue. once i received package 10 days from day of ordering and it was normal shipping option and Croatia is far away from china. realy nice quality 2 layer pcb-s, havent tried 4 layer yet but after reading few posts here i must.
also i ordered some boards that had seeedstudio drc applied and forgot to check it before ordering, no issue.
i want to thank JLC for nice boards also you can ramp your prices up bit(and workers pay) you will not loose any customers.

[Cerebus]

also you can ramp your prices up bit(and workers pay) you will not loose any customers.

Shut up! Now! Please...

Will 'the lads' please take this poster around the back of the bike sheds and 'explain' to him what not to say. 

[thm_w]

don't think was a problem with the ink refill, it was no silkscreen on the top layer at all for some pcbs, quoting jlcpcb's message "our engineer made mistake"

i also print a copy of the edge cuts plus solder mask plus top silkscreen layers for the assembly but these pcbs were made to be used in tests and measurements. the silkscreen is essential to set the pins you need for input bits, d0, d1, ... d15, for power supply and output pins

That is worse if it was entirely missing the silkscreen, and not just in some spots as originally stated.
In that case you'd want to get something like a sticky label sheet that you can print the instructions on, then attach to the PCB. So maybe remaking them is easier.

[asmi]

Thank you. It looked a bit smaller to me. I'll add that to my list of "they can definitely do this" BGA qualifications.

I never went all the way down to 80 um traces/clearances, but did plenty of 100 um traces/clearances. Also did a ton of 0.8 mm pitch BGAs, infact if you take a look at the project in my signature, you will see 0.8 mm pitch BGA (DDR2) there, and 0.1 mm traces/clearances. This project was specifically designed around JLCPCB 4 layer process (JLC2313 stackup).
So no worries at least for larger pitch BGA. I have another project with 0.65 mm BGA lined up, will see if I can make it work with their process - it will probably be pushing it.