Author Topic: What's up with JLCPCB these days?  (Read 10619 times)

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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2023, 06:24:50 pm »
If PCB extends to the area covered by tape, you won't be able to apply solder paste properly.
Why would I cover a stencil with tape?
I use a stencil printer which grips and tensions an unframed stencil on two edges. I can print any PCB that physically fits between these edges.

I could have a 380x280mm stencil, a 300x200mm PCB with a 250x150  printed area, well within thie 290x190mm "valid area" but JLC would reject that as they mistakenly constrain the valid area to the PCB outline.

 Fortunately as mentioned earlier, this limit can be circumvented that by putting the stencil as a seperate order with just the paste layer so their system doesn't know the physical size of the PCB



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Offline asmi

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2023, 06:53:37 pm »
Actually they do. See attached screenshot. Looks like they renamed it now to Advanced PCB,
and they still call it "High Precision PCB" - up to 20 layers.
You might want to read up on what HDI means, that's not what's on your screenshot. Professionals must know what HDI is.

I wonder if they can provide a sample stack-up for that, lol.
They do, and there is nothing to be laughed about.

Sounds like you are rumbling here.
You are the one rambling about some mythical "big boys" here.

Who pays $10K for what PCB ?
"Professionals" are. You know, those who don't even know what HDI means, but feel like they can teach everyone "how things are done by BIG BOYZ"  :palm:

"They are fine already" ? No they are not, not for complex PCBs that use any high speed signaling. They are several generations away from that.
Yes they are. Meet a 10 layer PCB made by JLCPCB (in attachment). It's got it all, and some more - controlled impedance, small traces/spacings, 64bit DDR3 SODIMM interface, multi-gigabit links, via in a pad (note lack of dogbones in BGA area, as well as decoupling caps right on top of vias under BGA). How much would your "big boyz" charge for that, by the way?

The professional fabs are not necessarily much more expensive than JLCPCB.  Specially if you consider the services they offer. We have used several companies in China, all have been professional and their pricing is usually quite reasonable. Pricing has been consistent for PCB materials and assembly cost. Variations are mostly small.
JLCPCB IS a professional fab, not for "professionals", but for real professionals.

But, playing with the big boys will be a real challenge for JLCPCB. I look forward to seeing how they will grow, and will continue supporting them through my business any way I can !
Who are those mythical big boyz you keep rambling about?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2023, 04:43:54 am by asmi »
 
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Offline JLCPCB Official

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2023, 07:41:13 am »
When selecting a stencil, please ensure that your PCB dimensions fall within the valid area range.
the problem is that the PCB size is usually larger than the valid area due to panel borders etc., but your system still rejects based on the PCB dimension, not the dimension of the area actually used on the stencil.

We deeply appreciate the significance of selecting the correct stencil size. However, given the diverse and intricate requirements of our users, the current most practical approach is to determine the stencil size based on the dimensions of the PCB. We acknowledge the limitations of this approach and, to mitigate them, we encourage customers to include comments in their orders. By doing so, we will carefully review the comments and accommodate them if feasible. (Please feel free to add comments to your next order.)

We greatly value the questions raised and are actively developing comprehensive guidelines for stencil ordering. Additionally, we are continuously improving our processes to enhance our ability to offer customers the most appropriate stencil sizes. We sincerely appreciate your valuable feedback and thank you once again for your contribution.
 

Offline Kean

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2023, 02:32:08 pm »
@JLCPCB Official

I often choose "Panel by JLCPCB" for prototypes and small production runs, but when I select to have edge rails "On 2 Sides" it doesn't always select the optimal sides for my PnP setup.
Is it possible to have a way to select between which sides are used for the "On 2 Sides" edge rails please?
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2023, 08:27:55 pm »
@JLCPCB Official

I often choose "Panel by JLCPCB" for prototypes and small production runs, but when I select to have edge rails "On 2 Sides" it doesn't always select the optimal sides for my PnP setup.
Is it possible to have a way to select between which sides are used for the "On 2 Sides" edge rails please?
Much safer to panelise it yourself so you know exactly what you will get
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Offline Mangozac

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2023, 09:56:19 pm »
I often choose "Panel by JLCPCB" for prototypes and small production runs, but when I select to have edge rails "On 2 Sides" it doesn't always select the optimal sides for my PnP setup.
Is it possible to have a way to select between which sides are used for the "On 2 Sides" edge rails please?
I believe they automatically process so that the rails are added to the longest sides of the panel, which is what you want to play nicely with SMT line conveyors. These days though we do as Mike suggests and panelise ourselves as it removes opportunities for confusion (or in one specific case forgetting to add the edge rails  :-[).
 

Offline Kean

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2023, 09:11:59 am »
Much safer to panelise it yourself so you know exactly what you will get

Yeah, of course.  After a frustrating design session I can certainly be a bit lazy impatient.

I believe they automatically process so that the rails are added to the longest sides of the panel, which is what you want to play nicely with SMT line conveyors. These days though we do as Mike suggests and panelise ourselves as it removes opportunities for confusion (or in one specific case forgetting to add the edge rails  :-[).

Correct.  In the case yesterday it was a 100x52mm PCB that I wanted panellised 1 wide x 2 high with 2x5mm edge rails placed top and bottom.  The JLC order page gives me a 110x104 panel, so rails placed on the left and right.  The dimensions in this case are close and small enough that the position of the rails would make little difference to SMT processing, especially as I don't use conveyors on any of my PnPs.  I also already have the PnP files generated for a prior revision and they just need minor tweaks plus some extra through hole parts.  I just need a small batch with changes for EMC compliance testing, and production will be handled by a CM.
 
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Offline JLCPCB Official

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2023, 10:34:03 am »
@JLCPCB Official

I often choose "Panel by JLCPCB" for prototypes and small production runs, but when I select to have edge rails "On 2 Sides" it doesn't always select the optimal sides for my PnP setup.
Is it possible to have a way to select between which sides are used for the "On 2 Sides" edge rails please?

In order to avoid any bouncing during component placement, we recommended positioning the edge rails along the longer sides of the PCB.
The edge rails should have a width of at least 5mm. Please check this for reference:https://jlcpcb.com/help/article/48-How-to-add-edge-rails/fiducials-for-PCB-assembly-order.
For small-size PCB designs where you prefer to have the edge rails positioned along the shorter sides, kindly include your request in the order comments. We will check and proceed accordingly to fulfill your requirements.
 
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Online loki42

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2023, 10:07:47 am »
While jlcpcb are here... are you planning to offer blind & buried vias?
 

Offline asmi

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2023, 10:53:50 am »
While jlcpcb are here... are you planning to offer blind & buried vias?
I wish they would. But I'm afraid they can't find a way to make it more-or-less affordable, and without that, they won't have volume to get an ROI

Offline huababua

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2023, 12:36:55 pm »
Cant really recommend JLCPCB to anyone.
Ordered ~10 different pcbs in different orders. In 2 pcbs there was manual rework done by JLCPCB. Yes- I was on the manufacturing limits but well inside their capabilities.

What really f****s me up is their way of dealing with the issue. I reached out to the support and it went back and forward 10 times - me, investing lots of time sending pictures etc.
On the end they offered me a refund if I sent the pcbs back to China at my own cost (I am living in Europe).

I mean errors can happen. But arguing for 20 bucks in a 140 $ order really is not nice.

I switched over to Aisler for the simple boards and PCBway for the more complex boards and pay the extra.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2023, 09:01:07 pm »
Cant really recommend JLCPCB to anyone.
Ordered ~10 different pcbs in different orders. In 2 pcbs there was manual rework done by JLCPCB. Yes- I was on the manufacturing limits but well inside their capabilities.

What really f****s me up is their way of dealing with the issue. I reached out to the support and it went back and forward 10 times - me, investing lots of time sending pictures etc.
On the end they offered me a refund if I sent the pcbs back to China at my own cost (I am living in Europe).

I mean errors can happen. But arguing for 20 bucks in a 140 $ order really is not nice.

I switched over to Aisler for the simple boards and PCBway for the more complex boards and pay the extra.

Manual rework on the raw PCB? Need a photo to see what you are talking about.
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Offline huababua

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2023, 12:42:31 pm »
Cant really recommend JLCPCB to anyone.
Ordered ~10 different pcbs in different orders. In 2 pcbs there was manual rework done by JLCPCB. Yes- I was on the manufacturing limits but well inside their capabilities.

What really f****s me up is their way of dealing with the issue. I reached out to the support and it went back and forward 10 times - me, investing lots of time sending pictures etc.
On the end they offered me a refund if I sent the pcbs back to China at my own cost (I am living in Europe).

I mean errors can happen. But arguing for 20 bucks in a 140 $ order really is not nice.

I switched over to Aisler for the simple boards and PCBway for the more complex boards and pay the extra.

Manual rework on the raw PCB? Need a photo to see what you are talking about.

This was comming from JLC like this…
 
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Offline V_King

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2023, 02:27:03 pm »
pre covid JLCPCB was great. Now it is a big mess! Had PCBA service with soldering issues - customer services just have a whole catalogue of silly questions to make you go away and avoid rectifying issues.
Their global sourcing always have issues too - you order to listed attrition, but when they receive components attrition requirements suddenly change and you have to order parts AGAIN!
Some parts went missing in their global sourcing probram, again "definitely not their issue", I must have ordered wrong quantity!

lots and lots of excuses at the moment. 
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2023, 12:41:35 am »
This was comming from JLC like this…

Was not expecting that, interesting.
Not an alignment issue, its like they knew they processed it wrong and someone covered up the pads.
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Online langwadt

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2023, 12:58:38 am »
Cant really recommend JLCPCB to anyone.
Ordered ~10 different pcbs in different orders. In 2 pcbs there was manual rework done by JLCPCB. Yes- I was on the manufacturing limits but well inside their capabilities.

What really f****s me up is their way of dealing with the issue. I reached out to the support and it went back and forward 10 times - me, investing lots of time sending pictures etc.
On the end they offered me a refund if I sent the pcbs back to China at my own cost (I am living in Europe).

I mean errors can happen. But arguing for 20 bucks in a 140 $ order really is not nice.

I switched over to Aisler for the simple boards and PCBway for the more complex boards and pay the extra.

Manual rework on the raw PCB? Need a photo to see what you are talking about.

This was comming from JLC like this…

how did the gerbers look?

 

Offline huababua

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2023, 07:41:15 am »
I don’t have access to post a picture of the Gerbers at the moment. But same files were produced by Aisler without any issues.

Also - if the Gerbers were wrong they would have blamed me from the beginning and not started scratching anything.

Again, I leave my fingers of JLCpcb even if I pay 30 percent premium on others.

 

Offline sam512bb

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2023, 11:33:12 pm »
I also had recent issues with JLCPCB, whereas, prior orders had zero.  For one PCB, they held up the manfuacturing because of problem with the PCB's slot... well there were no slots on the PCB.  It took 5 days before I realized that someone thought that a silkscreen filled rectangle was a PCB slot.  I double checked my gerbers in case something went awry and all was fine.  I sent off a detailed email and asked if my gerbers somehow became corrupted.  JLCPCB said no, the files were fine and informed the team making my PCBs... and the PCBs were fabbed fine.  Still... I was a bit anxious as to what else the PCB team could misinterpret, but also a bit annoyed that it took almost a week to get remedied and held up production on a number of other PCBs I had also ordered.
 
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Offline coppercone2

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2023, 05:41:03 pm »
had simple 2 layer board made, other then my own mistakes it was fine and affordable compared to the 8 month wait that professional domestic services had at 2000% price increase with 1/10th board size ................................. like OMG at least send me a bottle of spirits and some tickets for a show for that wonderful service.............
« Last Edit: November 10, 2023, 05:43:31 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline glenenglish

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2024, 04:43:34 am »
I would recommend JLCpcb highly
Excellent value for money .

I regularly do 6 layer PCBs on 1.2mm FR4 with 0.2mm hole, 0.125 track space.. no problem. be sure to teardrop your designs.

 I would recommend the stencil as a separate order. be sure in the TEXT BOX to provide the info you want like thickness and no aperture changes....
 

Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2024, 07:27:12 am »
I ordered 5  2 layer boards from JLCPCB with square cutouts and an angular protrusion and the only mistake was one of my own. On the silkscreen I marked the ground pin of a connector as plus  :palm:

For the rest it is perfectly fine. More pictures of the end result can be seen here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/modernizing-old-fischertechnik-27mc-remote-control/

Offline Puteketeke

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2024, 09:36:27 pm »
@pcprogrammer,

The order number seems to be on copper layer (I usually have it on silkscreen).

Is it the photo ? If on copper and JLC accepts that, good to know ;)


 

Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: What's up with JLCPCB these days?
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2024, 07:16:51 am »
@pcprogrammer,

The order number seems to be on copper layer (I usually have it on silkscreen).

Is it the photo ? If on copper and JLC accepts that, good to know ;)

It is on the silkscreen.

For as far as I know, you can add your own identification on the board and if you like on the copper as long as it is not to small. To be sure just ask them.


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