Which is better ? Würth Or Eurocircuits

[Icarus]

Which is better for PCB Fab. Würth Or Eurocircuits ?

[rea5245]

I don't have personal experience with either. There are no reviews for Eurocircuits on PCBShopper yet, and Würth is not included on PCBShopper at all (I hadn't heard of them before now, but if people here think highly of them, perhaps I'll add them).

How did you narrow your choices down to these two companies?

- Bob Alexander
  PCBShopper.com

[Wilksey]

Not used Wurth, Eurocircuits are OK, nothing special, only used for PCB Fab for work. both fairly large companies I would have thought they could send you some samples of their work, I had some PCB business cards from Eurocircuits at an electronics design show, they seem good quality (solder mask, silk).

[DutchGert]

Eurocircuits is cheaper/faster and has a much better site (love the online DFM checks).

Wurth has a bit better capabilities and there boards look very slick (sharp silkscreen, beautyfull via's etc.) and they can do blind and burried via's much better.
Also, Wurth offers flex and flexrigid but Eurocircuits has IMS boards.

[Icarus]

How did you narrow your choices down to these two companies?

Just word of mouth, there is a ton of pcb fabs. I can't decide.
I've a 10 layer, controlled impedance, very dense board (min trace 4mil, min hole 10mil)
I prefer 3313MS FR408HR prepregs and cores.


Thank all of you
Which company do you(all of you) recomennd ? It's quite difficult to find impedance problems. So I would like trust them

[mk_]

How did you narrow your choices down to these two companies?

Just word of mouth, there is a ton of pcb fabs. I can't decide.
I've a 10 layer, controlled impedance, very dense board (min trace 4mil, min hole 10mil)
I prefer 3313MS FR408HR prepregs and cores.


Thank all of you
Which company do you(all of you) recomennd ? It's quite difficult to find impedance problems. So I would like trust them

Ask Ätzwerk in München. No onlineregistration required, small quantities, online.calculation, helpfull people if something goes wrong, fast and prices are ok - at least for me. They sell you also stencils...

good luck

mk_

[m98]

I've a 10 layer, controlled impedance, very dense board (min trace 4mil, min hole 10mil)
I prefer 3313MS FR408HR prepregs and cores.

Just use the one who makes the cheaper offer. They're both as good as it gets for standard stuff. But if you need HDI (which doesn't seem to be the case here), Würth is better.
Also take a look at http://www.fineline-global.com/ , they're a PCB-supplier who offers very good prices, fast prototyping service and do any technology you can even think of.

[tszaboo]

EC is good if you can use the pooling. If not than the price skyrockets.
I ordered from both, usually we order from them if the lead time has to be fast or prototype. With EC we had some issues, inner layer broken track, wrong setup of milling machine etc... Happens when you make 100+ diffent order. Most bad boards came from the German factory, not the Hungarian btw. I order from them without considering else.
Würth also makes top quality boards of course. I had a mail from them, that they are very sorry that an order will be 2-3 days late (!), but their factory burned down!!!
http://www.we-online.com/web/en/wuerth_elektronik/news_weg/news_archiv_2014_weg/news-detail-we-gruppe_67582.php
The PCBs arrived a day late, after they rushed a second production run in a different factory. That is the kind of professionalism, that you get in the EU.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Not used Wurth but occasionally use EC, mainly for 4L
If you're close to design limits IME Their online DRC can be over-picky, and sometimes even if it passes that, it gets bounced later on in the process.

[MrSlack]

Got a few Wurth dev boards off RS. They're quite nice. I'd be happy if my boards came out like that.

[mrpackethead]

Wurths Boards are among the worlds best, without a doubt.  There is nothing left to chance there.  Its just amazing. and they have capabilities others just dream of...

It comes at a price to match.
 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just sent an order with Wurth as they offer .125mm track/space at reasonable prices. Only took a brief look round their site & they seem to have the biggest range of options, and smallest feature size options I've seen from any online PCB service

[printedcircuit]

Which is better for PCB Fab. Würth Or Eurocircuits ?

i have heared about Eurocircuits but not Würth.
Eurocircuits should be larger and have better fabrication capacity. if you care about quality or you want to fab some high density boards. i would say Eurocircuits.
i guess you are a german. I know a german fab called PCB Pool. i red some comments that the quality of their board is pretty. could be a choice if you are willing to pay a bit more.

[mrpackethead]

Just sent an order with Wurth as they offer .125mm track/space at reasonable prices. Only took a brief look round their site & they seem to have the biggest range of options, and smallest feature size options I've seen from any online PCB service

Thats interesting, i might have to relook at their pricing, as last time they were very expensive.

Edit: just looked at the pricing and they have really moved quite significnatly since last year.

[Supercharged]

I've ordered from Würth before; the quality was superb and their support was fast and nice . But if you're searching for a cheap solution i would suggest going for a Chinese manufacturer.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just sent an order with Wurth as they offer .125mm track/space at reasonable prices. Only took a brief look round their site & they seem to have the biggest range of options, and smallest feature size options I've seen from any online PCB service

Thats interesting, i might have to relook at their pricing, as last time they were very expensive.

Edit: just looked at the pricing and they have really moved quite significnatly since last year.

As with all these services, there are some options that add large price jumps - it's always worth experimenting

[tszaboo]

Just sent an order with Wurth as they offer .125mm track/space at reasonable prices. Only took a brief look round their site & they seem to have the biggest range of options, and smallest feature size options I've seen from any online PCB service

Thats interesting, i might have to relook at their pricing, as last time they were very expensive.

Edit: just looked at the pricing and they have really moved quite significnatly since last year.

Well, two Eurocard 4 layer for 3 days prototype is 500 EUR at Würth, and 450 at EC.
While for the same size, 50 pcs 8 layer boards for slow for the price it is 2400 at Würth and 1700 at EC. So Würth is still more expensive, for the typical stuff, Würt is still more expensive. That was my feeling last year also.
On the other hand you get a HDI Microvia prototype for 660 EUR, which is awesome price if you ask me.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just sent an order with Wurth as they offer .125mm track/space at reasonable prices. Only took a brief look round their site & they seem to have the biggest range of options, and smallest feature size options I've seen from any online PCB service

Thats interesting, i might have to relook at their pricing, as last time they were very expensive.

Edit: just looked at the pricing and they have really moved quite significnatly since last year.

Well, two Eurocard 4 layer for 3 days prototype is 500 EUR at Würth, and 450 at EC.
While for the same size, 50 pcs 8 layer boards for slow for the price it is 2400 at Würth and 1700 at EC. So Würth is still more expensive, for the typical stuff, Würt is still more expensive. That was my feeling last year also.
On the other hand you get a HDI Microvia prototype for 660 EUR, which is awesome price if you ask me.

PCBtrain in the UK have a fast service for 2L and 4L, e.g. two 4L Eurocards GBP200 in 2 days, but no soldermask or silkscreen

[tszaboo]

PCBtrain in the UK have a fast service for 2L and 4L, e.g. two 4L Eurocards GBP200 in 2 days, but no soldermask or silkscreen

No, that is needed. I keep the principle, where the prototype is an exact copy of the first production run, and it is assembled by a subcontractor, preferably the same as the production (that is usually very hard to achieve). To make sure PnP is OK, and all the little details are OK.
If it needs to be ready ASAP, I dont care about the price at all. Probably because someone else is paying for it, but more importantly, me doing nothing costs more to the company. Otherwise, if it is not rushed, prices become very reasonable above 7-10 WD.

[printedcircuit]

Just word of mouth, there is a ton of pcb fabs. I can't decide.
I've a 10 layer, controlled impedance, very dense board (min trace 4mil, min hole 10mil)
I prefer 3313MS FR408HR prepregs and cores.

well that design is on the edge of a medium tech fab capacity. you can request a quotation from pcbway. They offer a pretty decent quality board. if they can fab it, it could be a cheap choice. and do not trust their auto quote system as that thing is not quite accurate

[rea5245]

you can request a quotation from www.pcbway.com/. ... do not trust their auto quote system as that thing is not quite accurate

PCBWay's quote form is accurate, but they only accept payment via PayPal and they charge a 6.5% PayPal fee. That might be why the quote form's price seems inaccurate. It's not so much inaccurate as <ahem> incomplete.

- Bob Alexander
  PCBShopper.com

[tszaboo]

Just word of mouth, there is a ton of pcb fabs. I can't decide.
I've a 10 layer, controlled impedance, very dense board (min trace 4mil, min hole 10mil)
I prefer 3313MS FR408HR prepregs and cores.

well that design is on the edge of a medium tech fab capacity. you can request a quotation from www.pcbway.com/. They offer a pretty decent quality board. if they can fab it, it could be a cheap choice. and do not trust their auto quote system as that thing is not quite accurate

5-6 WD build time and 3-7 shipping time? That is ages. Chinese manufacturers are not in the same league when it comes to prototypes. EC can build a PCB in 2 days and I get it next day.
You send the design 18:00, someone processes it india in the morning someone starts producing it.
In the meantime you order components from Farnell on day 2 evening.
You spend the third day ordering the assembly service.
You get the components on day 3, you get PCB on day 3. Both of them shipped out on day 3 to the assembly house.
Day 4 assembly is started, in the meantime you spend the day drinking coffee and posting on eevblog.
Day 5 you get the assembled prototype.
Whoever orders from EC or Würth, is not going to order prototype from China. Time is money.

[DerekG]

PCBWay's quote form is accurate, but they only accept payment via PayPal and they charge a 6.5% PayPal fee.

- Bob Alexander
  PCBShopper.com

If running a production quantity of boards (in our case 1000 x circuits) you can ask for the Paypal fee to be removed. 6.5% is a bit rich & PCBWAY are aware of this.

[DerekG]

I've a 10 layer, controlled impedance, very dense board (min trace 4mil, min hole 10mil)

You will pay a premium for these specs from any board manufacturer.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I've a 10 layer, controlled impedance, very dense board (min trace 4mil, min hole 10mil)

You will pay a premium for these specs from any board manufacturer.

True, but at small quantites you can also probably expect a much wider range of prices than for more "commodity" spec boards, as you're well out of the 'pooled' market.

[mrpackethead]

PCBWay's quote form is accurate, but they only accept payment via PayPal and they charge a 6.5% PayPal fee.

- Bob Alexander
  PCBShopper.com

If running a production quantity of boards (in our case 1000 x circuits) you can ask for the Paypal fee to be removed. 6.5% is a bit rich & PCBWAY are aware of this.

pcbway are priced ok, but their service is starting to become quite  unreliable. Of last five orders, there has been some issue with four of them.

[Multi-CB]

Well, two Eurocard 4 layer for 3 days prototype is 500 EUR at Würth, and 450 at EC.
While for the same size, 50 pcs 8 layer boards for slow for the price it is 2400 at Würth and 1700 at EC. So Würth is still more expensive, for the typical stuff, Würt is still more expensive. That was my feeling last year also.
On the other hand you get a HDI Microvia prototype for 660 EUR, which is awesome price if you ask me.

Hello guys,
I stumbled upon this post and have to comment this (I know I am late). I was wondering why no one was mentioning my employer Multi-CB: www.multi-cb.de.
2 pcs. Eurocard with 4 layers in 3 production days cost approx. 230€ net.
50 pcs. Eurocard with 8 layers in 15 days (faster possible) cost approx. 1260€ net.
The quality and delivery reliability are excellent.

@Icarus
Multi-CB can easily produce 10 layer boards with impedance control and a high-Tg / low CTE material (e.g. FR408HR, I do not know if exactly this material is in stock).
125µm tracks as well as 0.2mm vias are already inclusive.

Sorry for making this small "advert", but I think you can see the difference.
Pricing calcuculation can be done online: https://portal.multi-circuit-boards.eu/

Regards,
Marc

[Wilksey]

This is very bizarre!

I was literally just looking on the Multi-CB website after finding a link to it on electronics weekly or some other publication, and thinking that the prices seemed quite good in comparison to the likes of Eurocircuits, and thought i'd do a quick check on relies on the blog and voila!

I'd never heard of Multi-CB before, it's not what you might call well advertised like, anywhere!  On paper it does look comparable.

[Multi-CB]

Hello Wilksey,

thanks for your input! We are trying to be recognized all over Europe, but the budget for new technology is always higher than for marketing.
We will try to expand our marketing efforts little by little.

And yes, not only the prices are good but also the quality.

[rea5245]

thanks for your input! We are trying to be recognized all over Europe, but the budget for new technology is always higher than for marketing.
We will try to expand our marketing efforts little by little.

Multi-CB, I notice you do not sell to hobbyists. What is the reason for that?

- Bob Alexander
  PCBShopper.com

[Multi-CB]

Multi-CB, I notice you do not sell to hobbyists. What is the reason for that?

Hello Bob, we came to the conclusion that hobbyists and (literal) professionals do have special needs when it comes to PCB production and procedures.
As we can only concentrate us fully on one group, we try to do the best for the professionals.

Marc

[RobK_NL]

we try to do the best for the professionals.

As a satisfied Multi-CB customer I can vouch for that   .

I also use EC, but in general I find that prices at Multi-CB are (sometimes significantly) lower.

[Christopher]

Very satisfied Multi-CB customer over here after two orders I'm going back for more