Poll

TVM920 vs CHMT560p4

TVM920
4 (50%)
CHMT560p4
4 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread  (Read 13331 times)

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Offline Spikee

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2016, 02:50:27 am »
It would be relatively easy to retro-fit the TVM 920 with linear guides if that is your big issue. But i don't think that there is such a difference.
I'm kinda surprised that they did not do it out of the factory since these are so cheap here in china.

The DIY machine that I have designed (and am building now) has 60 yamaha CL feeders , dual pnp head, linear guides HIWIN on all axes.
Closed loop stepper motors, single or dual bottom vision camera (industrial), single industrial down looking camera.
I'm waiting on the final custom milled and anodized parts now. 9mm belt drive 2GT ~370 x740 mm work space, 60-70Kg weight. Bom (with custom milling and anodizing) <3k (excl feeders of course)

anyway ... for 0201 in decent quantities with high yield you need a very expensive machine. and unless you use many layers in your pcb design and have fancy features like via's that go halfway trough the board it is not worth it in my opinion.

For <10K TVM920 pretty much is the only decent option at this moment. with four nozzles you don't have to worry about (automatic) tool change. Just keep the nozzles you need to use on the head.The machine is probably much faster than the rest of your process can handle. So don't focust too much on that.

There are some china pnp with yamaha feeders and linear guides + ballscrews. But the international support is 0.
I would not risk that.
Freelance electronics design service, Small batch assembly, Firmware / WEB / APP development. In Shenzhen China
 

Offline bithead2uTopic starter

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2016, 05:20:46 am »
machine pr0n - Charmhigh CHMT560P4 , 60 CL feeders, 4 heads.  Anybody have info on this?

https://youtu.be/kXWaDEFIRSE

 

Offline bithead2uTopic starter

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2016, 05:27:00 am »
Charmhigh CHMT-T560P4 pick and place machine ---- 4 heads with 60pcs Yamaha pneumatic feeders

XYZ Axis travel  600mm(X)*630mm(Y)*20mm(H)
PCB max size 400mm(L)×270mm(W)   (YESSS!!! ACCEPTS 9x12 panels!! ) :--
Mounting speed Without vision:8000cph; With Vision:5500cph (fkyeah!)
Precision  ±0.025mm
Vision detection Double camera (up & down) support max size of IC:22*22mm
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 05:42:48 am by bithead2u »
 

Offline Spikee

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2016, 06:50:02 am »
It also has zero international support. At least I could not get any response from them for an inquiry.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.HkjHMb&id=542482634927&ns=1&abbucket=6#detail
I find that the mechanics look kinda shitty for that money. But if it works than it will probably work pretty well.

But if you have problems you are probably fucked and this becomes an expensive paperweight.

In the general PNP thread there is someone with a 530P4 and they told about their experience with it.
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Offline bithead2uTopic starter

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2016, 07:05:50 am »
Link please?

Here is my positive experience so far:  i requested a quote earlier today and they responded within 1 hour. Bonus, the machine ships from stock in 1-2 days (not 3-4 weeks).  The quoted price was pretty much identical to that of the SmallSMT VP-2800HP and TVM920 with similar CL feeders. But, YMMV.

 

Offline bithead2uTopic starter

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2016, 07:18:32 am »
I believe this is the link to the "f*cked"-ness you speak of.  The guy said they got quick firmware fixes from the mfr,  had already placed 1M parts on the first machine, and were planning to buy a 2nd machine.  Doesn't sound like a paperweight to me. :-//

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/desktop-pick-and-place-overview/msg1086257/#msg1086257

 

Offline thommo

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2016, 07:34:45 am »
I'm not certain what you're comparing this offer to @bithead2u [stock vs 3-4 weeks], but if it happens to be the TVM920 then I'd humbly suggest you look more carefully at the specs and build of the 2 machines. Because, IMO you are not comparing Apples with Apples. Of course, if you've already made up your mind, then good luck with the new purchase and welcome to the family of PnP owners.

Cheers - Peter
 

Offline Spikee

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2016, 07:37:42 am »
the smallest they place is 0603 and sot363.

What I said is that these machines can work well or be really shit. It really depends on your usage.
Freelance electronics design service, Small batch assembly, Firmware / WEB / APP development. In Shenzhen China
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Offline Smallsmt

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2016, 09:22:01 am »
Andrew it's useless to say they all can sell to chinese market, have chinese support, limited warranty....
By the way you are a satisfied TVM920 customer could you show us a working video please?
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2016, 09:24:47 am »
Andrew it's useless to say they all can sell to chinese market, have chinese support, limited warranty....
By the way you are a satisfied TVM920 customer could you show us a working video please?

Will your machines support running open-pnp or are you going to make your software opensource
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2016, 09:30:07 am »
Andrew it's useless to say they all can sell to chinese market, have chinese support, limited warranty....

Quote
By the way you are a satisfied TVM920 customer could you show us a working video please?

No, i am not the owner of a TVM920.   Never said i was.   
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Offline bithead2uTopic starter

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2016, 10:07:02 am »
I put up a poll, please vote.
 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2016, 10:07:20 am »
Andrew it's useless to say they all can sell to chinese market, have chinese support, limited warranty....
By the way you are a satisfied TVM920 customer could you show us a working video please?

Will your machines support running open-pnp or are you going to make your software opensource

Andrew you can use OpenPNP if you like we have a Windows and Linux DLL for our V1 an V2 machines to do the interface to external software.
It should be easy to adopt but we don't need to do this job for ourselves.

Our Visionplacer V3 software will never become Open Source but we have an SDK to add any machine on the market to our PNP Software.
The Hardware Layer is accessed using a DLL interface and this will become Open Source when we release the software.

We want to sell the software, electronic modules, and feeder blocks to customer who want to build their own PNP machine or retrofit and old machine next year.

 

Offline bithead2uTopic starter

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2016, 04:43:21 am »

TL;DR - sorry everyone, I just can't swing the ~$13k USD for a PnP right now.   

The cost of the TVM920 is equivalent to 6 months' base expenses, so it's a big deal for me. With no consulting clients lined up yet, I decided it is better to play it safe and conserve startup cash. Once I am running and in the black I can revisit.

So, in order to have *something* to work with ASAP, and minimize the cash outlay, I've decided to do an OpenBuilds machine. BOM is only about $1k including vision.  I'll open a new thread on that topic.


 

Offline cmantunes

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Re: Yet another SMT PnP advice thread
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2016, 11:22:42 pm »
For those interested, I created a thread for the CHMT560P4 some time ago, here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/charmhigh-560p4-pick-and-place/

I am currently still using the CHMT36 but plan on upgrading in 2017. As of right now, the CHMT560P4 is the one I'm leaning towards the most. BTW, I've never had any trouble getting a response from my Charmhigh rep, Kimi Liu <kimi@charmhigh-tech.com>.
 


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