Author Topic: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info  (Read 96287 times)

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Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #125 on: July 22, 2021, 06:41:45 am »
Initially I had a cheap regulator+filter but it proved to be insufficient as the filter was only 40um rated. Water still managed to get into the machine air lines. I had vapor pouring out of feeder slot! Then I bought a 5um regulator+filter from Mindman Taiwan. This is a much better filter and much larger in size. Still I wanted to further improve the air supply although at this stage everything is sort of perfect from the pick and place point of view. So I bought a SMC water separator unit AMG150C which is rated to remove 99% of water. In the future I might add a dryer from SMC too but that's a bit expensive for now. Just take note of the possible drop these devices might add to your line by carefully choosing them. Also be very diligently draining out any water from your tank as frequent as possible.The HWGC guy warned me: the air is the most important aspect of the machine if you want perfect pick and place process.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 06:44:16 am by 48X24X48X »
 

Online PartialDischarge

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #126 on: July 22, 2021, 06:54:57 am »
One question to those operating the machine: do you use a water separation device or an air drying device between compressor and machine?
I do have a normal one, but I believe the humidity of your region is what should define your effort here, where I live it is dry most of the year, 39% now, compared to 78% in Berlin or 60% in Singapore.
 

Offline JanL

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #127 on: July 22, 2021, 07:03:33 am »
Thank you. As I will operate the machine at room temparature I do not expect some cold spots where water will condense. I will start with a separator first, as drying devices are quiet expensive.
 

Offline JMG

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #128 on: August 02, 2021, 07:26:55 pm »
Customer supplied a pick n place file with 0,0 co-ords at the top left. Is there an option somewhere on the machine to transpose that to bottom left? Machine thinks the board is 180 degrees out.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #129 on: August 03, 2021, 02:44:58 am »
The machine doesn't care where the origin is on your file. When you assign the 4-point for the coordinate translation from PCB coordinate to machine coordinate, it will inform you if it 180 degree rotated based on the 4-point. So, the 4-point that you choose must be correctly positioned (top-left, bottom-left, top-right and bottom-right).

Offline JMG

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #130 on: August 26, 2021, 11:14:58 pm »
IF PEOPLE COULD STOP PRIVATE MESSAGING ME ASKING FOR ME TO ILLEGALLY GIVE THEM A COPY OF THIS SOFTWARE, SO THEY CAN ADMITTEDLY DISSASSEMBLE IT AND CREATE A VERSION OF THEIR OWN, THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. THANKS!

 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #131 on: August 27, 2021, 12:34:45 pm »
IF PEOPLE COULD STOP PRIVATE MESSAGING ME ASKING FOR ME TO ILLEGALLY GIVE THEM A COPY OF THIS SOFTWARE, SO THEY CAN ADMITTEDLY DISSASSEMBLE IT AND CREATE A VERSION OF THEIR OWN, THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. THANKS!


I thought people always said that software made by Chinese companies are no good, so bad that they wouldn't even go near their product, let alone copying their software.  ;D
 
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Offline alexaraujo

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Re: YX SMT660 SMT880 P&P machines
« Reply #132 on: September 05, 2021, 06:00:38 pm »
Do not be discouraged.

The 110V mod is likely to be a 110/220V, 3KVA step-up transformer, a commercial, nicely packaged toroidal unit.  That's what I got and used until I ran a direct line from my AC panel.  The Panasonic drive electronics and servo motors come in 120 and 240 volt versions.  The 660 uses the higher voltage and perhaps the 3 top models all do it for inventory reasons.  There are two switching power supplies and they like the PC and monitor can take either voltage although they are not auto switching.

Fifteen feeders is great to be thrown in for a 550.  I got 15 for a 660 and was offered 25 for an 880.   In the end, when  stuffed boards come out of the machine its all worth it.

Are you dealing with Jim Jiang at YX?
.

I'm closing a purchase hwgc that has a model like smt660, could you send photos of your modifications please?
 

Offline alexaraujo

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #133 on: September 05, 2021, 06:04:31 pm »
John Plocher, had several small problems with the smt550, as per your videos on youtube, did you have it too?

 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #134 on: September 23, 2021, 03:33:35 am »
Tried using a 0.4mm pitch QFN48 today and here's the outcome without any adhesive tape!

I believe the machine was completely out of calibration when I got it hence why so many problems. At one point,  now that I know what I'm talking about somewhat, I believe the nozzles on the X where 208mm out.

Today I need to place 150x 144 pin lqfp IC's. This was the main reason I bought the machine because doing this once a month by hand was cruel and unusual punishment 😅

Any guidance on set up? Does the down camera look at the pad location or is everything located based on the local fids?

Is there any way to run this without optimization? I've got around 20 feeders that have parts common with 3 projects and would love to be able to leave them where they are for each project. Seems like a lot of unnecessary work shifting them around, telling the software what part is in which feeder and which location over and over.

Is there a save button anywhere that saves all settings - basically the entire set up for a run? Or does it save automatically in the background each time you make a change somewhere?


If you still have the LQFP inaccuracy issues:
  • Set the vision model to close loop 2nd order or the last option if using high resolution camera. As of the new software released few months ago, stop using open loop on anything including the jelly beans parts, it will be removed in future releases.
  • Pick the components for visual test, click on visual debug and you can see the real time camera interpretation on the components like X & Y size and angle. Play with the threshold value until you see X & Y dimension is as close as your real component dimension (can be down to 0.01mm)

Currently working on a series of video tutorial. Too many people nagging me to make one.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 03:41:03 am by 48X24X48X »
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #135 on: September 30, 2021, 10:11:16 am »
Posted part 1 of the machine tutorial:

Sorry for the lack of mouse cursor, promise they will show up in the following part.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 03:39:52 am by 48X24X48X »
 
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Offline alexaraujo

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #136 on: September 30, 2021, 02:01:16 pm »
Posted part 1 of the machine tutorial:

https://youtu.be/D8Ai-YlF4kE

Sorry for the lack of mouse cursor, promise they will show up in the following part.

You became my idol...hahaha.
When you come to São Paulo, I'll pay you Brazilian barbecue at Fogo de Chão ;D
 

Online PartialDischarge

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #137 on: October 01, 2021, 06:40:31 pm »
Posted part 1 of the machine tutorial:

https://youtu.be/D8Ai-YlF4kE

Sorry for the lack of mouse cursor, promise they will show up in the following part.

Good introduction, demonstrates that overall the machine is not that difficult to use. I was able to put it to work without having experience in any PnP.
I like those smallish square fiducials....
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #138 on: October 02, 2021, 07:02:12 am »
You became my idol...hahaha.
When you come to São Paulo, I'll pay you Brazilian barbecue at Fogo de Chão ;D
You better get ready some tickets to Sepultura or Cavalera Conspiracy show if I ever had the chance to go to Brazil.  ;D

Good introduction, demonstrates that overall the machine is not that difficult to use. I was able to put it to work without having experience in any PnP.
I like those smallish square fiducials....
Thanks. Yeah, the machine is pretty easy to use and the software is intuitive (at least to me) with only certain things sort of cryptic in the beginning but once you know them, it's very repeatable and consistent. That square fiducials are 0.5 mm in diameter and rotated 45° so it aligned with the cross-hair cursor at the edges. I figured this out quite early on that the normal circle 1 mm fiducial or component center wouldn't be accurate enough due to the resolution of the look down camera and of course our eyes.

Offline alexaraujo

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #139 on: October 02, 2021, 01:55:27 pm »
You became my idol...hahaha.
When you come to São Paulo, I'll pay you Brazilian barbecue at Fogo de Chão ;D
You better get ready some tickets to Sepultura or Cavalera Conspiracy show if I ever had the chance to go to Brazil.  ;D

Good introduction, demonstrates that overall the machine is not that difficult to use. I was able to put it to work without having experience in any PnP.
I like those smallish square fiducials....
Thanks. Yeah, the machine is pretty easy to use and the software is intuitive (at least to me) with only certain things sort of cryptic in the beginning but once you know them, it's very repeatable and consistent. That square fiducials are 0.5 mm in diameter and rotated 45° so it aligned with the cross-hair cursor at the edges. I figured this out quite early on that the normal circle 1 mm fiducial or component center wouldn't be accurate enough due to the resolution of the look down camera and of course our eyes.

Sepultura's concert only at Rock In Rio 2022 in September.
Death metal isn't really my thing, but we've been together for a while now that I haven't been to Rio de Janeiro.

Today I use 1mm round Fiducials and I'm actually going to switch to using your method which I thought is really more accurate.
 

Online PartialDischarge

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #140 on: October 03, 2021, 11:23:39 am »
What is the accessory this machine is picking from at 1:27?


« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 11:53:46 am by MasterTech »
 

Offline lutkeveld

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #141 on: October 03, 2021, 02:08:26 pm »
Vibration feeder. Used for chips that are delivered in tubes. It picks one up, then due to the vibration, a new one will slide into the empty slot again.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #142 on: October 03, 2021, 03:00:27 pm »
What is the accessory this machine is picking from at 1:27?
You have never used a vibration feeder before? As cheap as $100 for 3 lane version.

Online PartialDischarge

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #143 on: October 03, 2021, 04:00:35 pm »
You have never used a vibration feeder before? As cheap as $100 for 3 lane version.
No, the chips I have in tubes are placed manually. I prefer to have the slots available for 8 and 12mm feeders. Maybe when/if I have the 80 feeders version.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #144 on: October 04, 2021, 02:21:59 am »
You have never used a vibration feeder before? As cheap as $100 for 3 lane version.
No, the chips I have in tubes are placed manually. I prefer to have the slots available for 8 and 12mm feeders. Maybe when/if I have the 80 feeders version.
Okay, that's a valid reason but it's a nice to have option especially during this part shortage time, I take whatever packaging that is available. For example, I got my memory from Winbond directly and it comes in tubes, cut tape (it's mad they pre-cut them into 10s), tray and full reel. I had no choice but to get the tube form as the rest doesn't make sense (full reel is too much for me, tray eat up my tray area for other IC). I used the vibration tubes for SOIC and connectors (when there's no tape tooling readily available) mostly but sometimes I even used it for smaller IC like MSOP and TSSOP when supply in tapes comes in hard. I purchase various sizes of 2nd hand tubes off Taobao for these purposes and they are cheap. Vibration feeder also makes sense if the CL feeder drain depth is too little compared to the component height.

Offline alexaraujo

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #145 on: October 04, 2021, 12:21:23 pm »
Below is the picture of my compressor with the data is it enough to play Pnp hw-t6sg-64F?By his specification to be sufficient, however I believe that a little weak during the day I feel a loss of pressure in my pneumatic line.

I would also like to see the filters and water separator you used, could someone take a picture of your pneumatic infrastructure so I can adapt mine?
 

Online PartialDischarge

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #146 on: October 05, 2021, 03:17:29 pm »
Below is the picture of my compressor with the data is it enough to play Pnp hw-t6sg-64F?By his specification to be sufficient, however I believe that a little weak during the day I feel a loss of pressure in my pneumatic line.
The one I use charges to 8bar and has 125L/min and is absolutely fine so yours is a beast
 

Offline alexaraujo

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #147 on: October 05, 2021, 09:05:54 pm »
Below is the picture of my compressor with the data is it enough to play Pnp hw-t6sg-64F?By his specification to be sufficient, however I believe that a little weak during the day I feel a loss of pressure in my pneumatic line.
The one I use charges to 8bar and has 125L/min and is absolutely fine so yours is a beast

the problem that I have two machining centers on this line and as I don't have a water dryer is also a problem
 

Online PartialDischarge

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #148 on: October 05, 2021, 09:21:44 pm »
Probably can be shared, but a humidity trap is a must in SP
 

Offline vstrulev

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #149 on: October 15, 2021, 12:40:55 am »
Thank you very much guys for an excellent information, provided. By reading all of it, I was able to make, what I think, a right choice of the machine. Thank you all. Greatly appreciated.
 


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