Author Topic: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info  (Read 105112 times)

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Offline laseralex

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27.5% import tax on the machine, 25% import tax on the feeders

Ouch, that's brutal!
 

Offline laseralex

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For those of you who already own one of these machines, I have questions about feeders.

I see that components on 8mm tape are spaced on either a 2mm pitch (0201, 0402) or 4mm pitch (0603-1210).  Do I need separate feeders for those different spacings, or do they advance 2mm when actuated and just get actuated twice by the PnP machine when components are 4mm apart?

I'm trying to figure out what feeders I need - I'll be doing a mix of 0603 and 0402 boards, and I hope I don't need 40 8mm feeders for each size!

I also plan on buying some electric feeders to be able to move to 0201 in the future, but they are 3x the cost of the pneumatic feeders.  They don't look as expensive if one of them can replace 2 pneumatic feeders, but 40 of those would cost almost as much as the HW-T4SG-50F I'm planning to put them in.

Thanks in advance!
 

Online 48X24X48X

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For those of you who already own one of these machines, I have questions about feeders.

I see that components on 8mm tape are spaced on either a 2mm pitch (0201, 0402) or 4mm pitch (0603-1210).  Do I need separate feeders for those different spacings, or do they advance 2mm when actuated and just get actuated twice by the PnP machine when components are 4mm apart?

I'm trying to figure out what feeders I need - I'll be doing a mix of 0603 and 0402 boards, and I hope I don't need 40 8mm feeders for each size!

I also plan on buying some electric feeders to be able to move to 0201 in the future, but they are 3x the cost of the pneumatic feeders.  They don't look as expensive if one of them can replace 2 pneumatic feeders, but 40 of those would cost almost as much as the HW-T4SG-50F I'm planning to put them in.

Thanks in advance!
By default, the feeders are advanced by 4 mm (or multiple of it on larger 12 mm, 16 mm, etc feeder). So, for 0402, they have a special version that advances by 2 mm instead. I would say, if budget permits, go for the electric feeder. Myself started buying more electric feeders and won't be buying pneumatic ones anymore. I think the accuracy, less bouncing for plastic tape, rely less on air pressure quality (only uses it as triggering signal), and quieter are the values I found to be very useful on these electric feeder. But, one aspect I love most about the electric feeder is when you swap out a reel for another, you only lose 2 components while the pneumatic ones loses 6 components for 8 mm reels. The electric feeder can be configured to advance either 2 mm or 4 mm. But, the 8 mm pneumatic ones are very good itself for your regular passive and active, and also can be had for as cheap as USD40 if you hunt around. 2nd hands can be had for as low as USD10.

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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For those of you who already own one of these machines, I have questions about feeders.

I see that components on 8mm tape are spaced on either a 2mm pitch (0201, 0402) or 4mm pitch (0603-1210).  Do I need separate feeders for those different spacings, or do they advance 2mm when actuated and just get actuated twice by the PnP machine when components are 4mm apart?

I'm trying to figure out what feeders I need - I'll be doing a mix of 0603 and 0402 boards, and I hope I don't need 40 8mm feeders for each size!

I also plan on buying some electric feeders to be able to move to 0201 in the future, but they are 3x the cost of the pneumatic feeders.  They don't look as expensive if one of them can replace 2 pneumatic feeders, but 40 of those would cost almost as much as the HW-T4SG-50F I'm planning to put them in.

Thanks in advance!

Yamaha CL feeders in 8mm have 3 models.

2mm pitch 0201 High precision
2mm pitch 0402 Normal precision
4mm pitch Standard precision 0603 and up

The electric feeders are basically all high precision.
We use 0603 primarily but have a few small LEDs and diodes. So my plan is to get 40-50 8mm 4mm pneumatic feeders along with 10 or so 8mm electric feeders for these smaller components.
This should cover us pretty well. Hopefully, you can just get a load of 0201-0204 feeders and as you say, advance them twice per pick for your larger components.


Offline JMG

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I have not verified the part numbers yet, but, I found part numbers and feeder specs and created this spreadsheet. Hope it helps.

 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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I have not verified the part numbers yet, but, I found part numbers and feeder specs and created this spreadsheet. Hope it helps.

The 8x4mm ones I am getting are KW1-M1200-300.

Is there a wiki on this stuff so one can work out what the numbers mean?   ;D

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Just picked up 150 feeders. Mostly 8mm at around 120 of.
Now I need to save up for the machine xD

Offline JMG

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My machine has arrived in Chicago and is cleared for pick up! I'm about to pay the invoice for the forwarder which includes import taxes and a wealth of other fees. It'll be a $2703.80 outlay, plus at least $45 for them to fork lift it on to my trailer wen i get there. I'm definitely approaching $4500 in various fees and taxes to buy a $7500 machine with about $1000 in additional feeders. Should have bought that $18K Samsung with 100 feeders. Oh well!  :palm: :D

Soooo anyone know what size and type of container the 550 comes in? Would I need an enclosed trailer if its raining or is the packaging typically weatherproof?
 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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My machine has arrived in Chicago and is cleared for pick up! I'm about to pay the invoice for the forwarder which includes import taxes and a wealth of other fees. It'll be a $2703.80 outlay, plus at least $45 for them to fork lift it on to my trailer wen i get there. I'm definitely approaching $4500 in various fees and taxes to buy a $7500 machine with about $1000 in additional feeders. Should have bought that $18K Samsung with 100 feeders. Oh well!  :palm: :D

Soooo anyone know what size and type of container the 550 comes in? Would I need an enclosed trailer if its raining or is the packaging typically weatherproof?

From the looks of it, you can expect a wood box slightly larger than the machine with a few lengths of wood under it nailed together. A bit of tarp will do if you are putting it on a trailer.
I had a laser come last year and left it outside for a week. The top ply warped but the inside was nice and dry.

Sucks about the fees. They did not offer lower invoice $$$ when shipping? Pretty standard to be offered that.

Online 48X24X48X

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Soooo anyone know what size and type of container the 550 comes in? Would I need an enclosed trailer if its raining or is the packaging typically weatherproof?
Here's how it look like, I forgot the measurements but the volumetric was 1.46 m3.

Offline JMG

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Got my machine installed and powered up for the first time tonight but the software registration has expired. I'm waiting on an email from Jim to provide a fix to that. Also noted there is no wireless or ethernet connection available.
 

Offline JMG

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Still waiting for a working registration, after several emails and about 18 hours.  |O
 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Still waiting for a working registration, after several emails and about 18 hours.  |O

DON'T TURN IT ON

TAKE IT APART


And record it, some of us want to see what is inside :p

Online NorthGuy

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Still waiting for a working registration, after several emails and about 18 hours.  |O

Why the hell do they need the registration? Isn't the software free?

What happens if it expires again? Does the machine become useless then?
 

Online 48X24X48X

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Mine bought through Beijing Glichn which is basically a stock HWGC machine doesn't have such software expiry.

Offline JMG

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Got a code, machine moves, going to bed! It 3am and I've been anxious about this for 27 hours!
 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Someone send me the software package. Want to take a look.

Registration lock is pretty easy to get around most of the time.

Offline JMG

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Problems so far:

Noisy video from the mark camera
Conveyer rails are not parallel
Embedded scratches in the plastic cover over the nozzle cameras.
Software is 2018 version.
 

Offline PartialDischarge

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There is one thing that really annoys me in this machine, and that is the software checking on disabled components. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but if for whatever reason I don't want to mount some components there is a "Valid" check mark on the component list.
So still I should have to select the correct footprint and optimize the whole thing as if I was to mount them, otherwise I get a lot of errors in the "Diagnose" section.

Of course I could delete those components but I want to keep them there for future use.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 05:24:42 pm by MasterTech »
 

Offline PartialDischarge

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Another thing is that I expected the component library to be bigger, but in any case no problem in defining new components.
However I surely cannot figure out all these parameters in the list, for example for this TSSOP8-4.3x3mm package I newly defined

For example, do the dimensions include the pins?
What is the sync/pick tolerance?
What is the special Scan-R?
What is the Charactors-check?
What is the pick-H pressure offset?

The manufacturer could at least write some documentation about this.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 05:47:40 pm by MasterTech »
 

Online 48X24X48X

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For example, do the dimensions include the pins?
What is the sync/pick tolerance?
What is the special Scan-R?
What is the Charactors-check?
What is the pick-H pressure offset?
Scan-R is when the default camera scan radius on the component is not enough to cover the entire component dimension. The default scan radius would fit nearly everything jelly beans and IC. But, if you have something larger like module, USB connector you enlarged this scan radius. To see the effects of this scan radius, go to any component feeder page, pick the component to the fast/high camera and play with the scan radius.

Charactors-check is used to detect if the component is picked but wrongly picked on the side which when looked on the camera, it pretty much a rectangular/square shape that look "legit" to the software. If you enabled this Charactors-check and set the percentage to say 25%, the software would then need to ensure when the component is imaged, it cannot be more/less than 25% off from the dimension (length and width) of the component you have entered. I find this most important with component that can bounced on the feeder and sit sideways on the tape. Of course, it reduced your job in touching up after placement but you lose a lot of components.

The other 2 parameters, I'm not too sure too.
 
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Online 48X24X48X

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There is one thing that really annoys me in this machine, and that is the software checking on disabled components. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but if for whatever reason I don't want to mount some components there is a "Valid" check mark on the component list.
So still I should have to select the correct footprint and optimize the whole thing as if I was to mount them, otherwise I get a lot of errors in the "Diagnose" section.

Of course I could delete those components but I want to keep them there for future use.
Simply assigned plate feeder to them and configure some simple matrix for it to keep the software happy. Or you can add them later if you want to delete them now. I wish they have a 1 check box to somehow tell the software is not being used now, so please ignore it.

Offline PartialDischarge

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Simply assigned plate feeder to them and configure some simple matrix for it to keep the software happy. Or you can add them later if you want to delete them now. I wish they have a 1 check box to somehow tell the software is not being used now, so please ignore it.

Assigning a fake footprint is what I do, but I guess the ignore checkbox could be nice.

I did ask HWGC to write a manual about the footprint library, also told him that people are watching this thread so that that kind of help would benefit the HWGC brand for future sales.
 

Offline JMG

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Is there a way to adjust the tape advance distance on the 16mm reels? Currently they travel half the distance I need, looks about 6mm, I need 12mm.

Ok, I see the little metal tab you can flip over, however this now gives me too much travel lol
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 10:08:02 pm by JMG »
 

Online 48X24X48X

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Is there a way to adjust the tape advance distance on the 16mm reels? Currently they travel half the distance I need, looks about 6mm, I need 12mm.

Ok, I see the little metal tab you can flip over, however this now gives me too much travel lol
The metal tab can do 4, 8, 12 and 16 mm. Push it to the right or left to which the number is engraved on to select the distance required.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 07:30:29 am by 48X24X48X »
 


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