Author Topic: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info  (Read 105007 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JMG

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 41
  • Country: us
Could someone with an SMT550 please take a picture of the screen showing the green nozzle calibration check boxes at the bottom? I don't know what I did but when trying to calibrate feeders I have managed to un-calibrate the nozzles and they seem WAY off now. I'm looking for a ballpark delta before I run the calibration program as it says if its way off damage could occur. Mine are all in the 14000 - 21000 range on the X and all are 6798 on the Y.

Thanks!
 

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
Could someone with an SMT550 please take a picture of the screen showing the green nozzle calibration check boxes at the bottom? I don't know what I did but when trying to calibrate feeders I have managed to un-calibrate the nozzles and they seem WAY off now. I'm looking for a ballpark delta before I run the calibration program as it says if its way off damage could occur. Mine are all in the 14000 - 21000 range on the X and all are 6798 on the Y.

Thanks!
The nozzle height should be around 8.2K range for all nozzle (you can move the head to the feeder location and move the nozzle down and save height). Machine should be already calibrated before going out from the factory.

Offline JMG

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 41
  • Country: us
This was XY offset, not height, but thank you for answering. I did get it figured out.
New issue though, there doesn't appear to be enough vacuum to pick up an SO8 with a 505 nozzle. I have incoming air regulated to 90psi and I believe its flowing at 4.5cfm. Will continue working on this and report back findings.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
This was XY offset, not height, but thank you for answering. I did get it figured out.
New issue though, there doesn't appear to be enough vacuum to pick up an SO8 with a 505 nozzle. I have incoming air regulated to 90psi and I believe its flowing at 4.5cfm. Will continue working on this and report back findings.
I have been successfully using 504 on SOIC-8 all along as we only have 4 nozzle, no problem at all. My air supply after the filter is between 0.45-0.7 MPa depending on the time before the compressor start filling up again. This is with a 5 um air filter which ate 0.1 MPa along the way. Double check the height of both picking up and mounting. That is the usual issue, not air so much.

Offline PartialDischarge

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1625
  • Country: 00
Double check the height of both picking up and mounting.

Regarding this: In the feeder plug there is an easy way to check the pick-height, but how could one check the placing of one component say in "slow motion" ?
It would be nice to check visually if the component is either released too early or pushed too hard.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
On the individual feeder, you can try setting the mount down speed and up speed to something like 5-10 (if you want super slow motion, set to 1. Speed 10 is enough for me to investigate). Then on the PCB Edit, right click to run a specific component mount test corresponds to the feeder you have just setup earlier.

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
Surprisingly HWGC lineup actually is not that small! The HW-DU400-64 looks like a nice balanced machine. And it's even bigger surprise they updated the older 44 feeder machine too. The new red 4 head x 2 is very cheap compared to what is out there.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 10:09:59 am by 48X24X48X »
 


Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
Direct conversion yields USD22K. Only missing fly by camera but not a deal breaker.

Offline Styno

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Country: nl
  • TÜV-geprüft
Double check the height of both picking up and mounting.

Regarding this: In the feeder plug there is an easy way to check the pick-height, but how could one check the placing of one component say in "slow motion" ?
It would be nice to check visually if the component is either released too early or pushed too hard.
Usually you should be able to hear that quite easily as a loud *thunk*. At least that's what I get with our machine when the component z-size setting is too small.
 

Offline PartialDischarge

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1625
  • Country: 00
Then on the PCB Edit, right click to run a specific component mount test corresponds to the feeder you have just setup earlier.

That is a very nice feature that I missed, being able to mount just one component directly form the list.
 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Country: gb
    • PCBA.UK
I have updated the spreadsheet with the new models.

HW-DU400-64F   HW-DU800-96F   HW-DSQ800-120F are using electric NXT feeders by the way.
Have fun getting those for a good price.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o59ew0r3EL1JKFsNjkMwd5DyvhckeIeWCILkPt-afos/edit?usp=sharing

Offline JacksterTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Country: gb
    • PCBA.UK
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #87 on: July 04, 2021, 04:13:25 pm »
HWGC price for NXT electric feeders.

8mm    $240
12mm  $260
16mm  $280
24mm  $380
32mm  $650
44mm  $750


Yea I am sticking with the HW-T8-80F  ;D

Sorted through all the feeders I got. Ended up with;
84x   8mm - large reel
34x   8mm - standard reel
11x   12mm
5x    16mm
4x   24mm

All for $3800.
HWGC wanted $50 per 8mm standard so 80x that is $4,000. Think I did well with that...


The ones in boxes, about 5 need repairing and the rest are for parts. Only 8mm. All other sizes are fine.

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
We got a silent type compressor for air like: eBay auction: #173975839172, it provides enough air at the right pressure, but the duty cycle is high and it over heats and shuts down so we have another not so silent one daisy chained that we had lying around. We also added an SMC membrane air dryer inline like this on eBay auction: #143480683473 for $55.
Does the SMC air dryer reduces any air pressure before reaching the machine? I currently use a 5 um filter (maybe this is overkill and 40 um is enough) and it ate up 0.1 MPa which I think slightly make the placement process problematic when the air tank went below 0.5 MPa before it starts refilling (so machine gets around 0.4 MPa). Not cheap though the air dryer if it is brand new.

*Update
I just read the SMC IDG datasheet, these dryer has very minimal air pressure drop, hence the price! Also, I noticed your air compressor is 30L, best if 60L and above so it refill less often.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 02:12:49 am by 48X24X48X »
 

Offline blopblop

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: fr
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #89 on: July 05, 2021, 09:13:55 am »
I'm in the process of buying a PnP machine and I'm lurking on the HW-T6-64F, HW-T8-68F or HW-DU400-64F.
Do you know if the z Axis can be raised on the HW-T6-64F ? 7mm seems low ?
Does the machines have a nozzle change feature ?
Also, where would you recommend to buy it from, XY, Glichn or straight from Beijing Huawei Guochuang ?
Thanks for all the post in this thread, it really helps to have your feedback :D !
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 09:17:43 am by blopblop »
 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Country: gb
    • PCBA.UK
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2021, 10:13:56 am »
I'm in the process of buying a PnP machine and I'm lurking on the HW-T6-64F, HW-T8-68F or HW-DU400-64F.
Do you know if the z Axis can be raised on the HW-T6-64F ? 7mm seems low ?
Does the machines have a nozzle change feature ?
Also, where would you recommend to buy it from, XY, Glichn or straight from Beijing Huawei Guochuang ?
Thanks for all the post in this thread, it really helps to have your feedback :D !

They are all 20mm Z height. 7mm was an error.
Buy from whoever gives you the best deal.

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2021, 12:32:44 pm »
I'm in the process of buying a PnP machine and I'm lurking on the HW-T6-64F, HW-T8-68F or HW-DU400-64F.
Do you know if the z Axis can be raised on the HW-T6-64F ? 7mm seems low ?
Does the machines have a nozzle change feature ?
Also, where would you recommend to buy it from, XY, Glichn or straight from Beijing Huawei Guochuang ?
Thanks for all the post in this thread, it really helps to have your feedback :D !

They are all 20mm Z height. 7mm was an error.
Buy from whoever gives you the best deal.
No, I think 7 mm is correct for maximum component height. I have spoken to the manager of HWGC back in their Shenzhen factory and he mentioned he did close up to 8 mm electrolytic capacitor before. 20 mm is probably the total z-movement. Myself have tried up to 7 mm tactile switch too. Unless you are into tall components, 7 mm is a lot to work for.

Talk to all of them. And buy from who you think you feel most comfortable to deal with. That's the most important thing in doing business than price.

Offline JacksterTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Country: gb
    • PCBA.UK
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2021, 09:38:44 pm »

7mm is correct for maximum component height. I have spoken to the manager of HWGC back in their Shenzhen factory and he mentioned he did close up to 8 mm electrolytic capacitor before. 20 mm is probably the total z-movement. Myself have tried up to 7 mm tactile switch too. Unless you are into tall components, 7 mm is a lot to work for.


That makes sense. Updated the sheet.

Offline JMG

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 41
  • Country: us
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #93 on: July 08, 2021, 02:37:14 am »
I fixed my vacuum issue and have had some limited success placing parts. I'd say though that about 60% of 0603's get blown off the board with the little puff of air used to release vacuum. I know this is the issue rather than placement height because on occasion it will move parts next to the one is blown away. Is there a setting anywhere to back this off somewhat?
 

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #94 on: July 08, 2021, 02:55:52 am »
I fixed my vacuum issue and have had some limited success placing parts. I'd say though that about 60% of 0603's get blown off the board with the little puff of air used to release vacuum. I know this is the issue rather than placement height because on occasion it will move parts next to the one is blown away. Is there a setting anywhere to back this off somewhat?
What nozzle size are you using? And mind showing one of the feeder configuration of 0603 that has this issue?

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
For example, do the dimensions include the pins?
What is the sync/pick tolerance?
What is the pick-H pressure offset?

Pick-H offset is basically a distance by how much you want the nozzle to go further down after just touching the feeder. Typical value are 0.3 mm to 0.5 mm. This helps to ensure the nozzle is having a slight press against the component. This is same as the Mount-H offset for the mounting perspective but it is basically to push the components onto the paste. The sync/pick tolerance, a fellow owner here asked me this question before I went to their factory in Beijing, and I actually asked HWGC this question but back then it was for v6 software, so I can't seems to relate it to the current v8 software now. Back then, it was sort of a tolerance for the software to accept the deviation between pick height across all feeders.

HWGC price for NXT electric feeders.

8mm    $240
12mm  $260
16mm  $280
24mm  $380
32mm  $650
44mm  $750

Just checked with my supplier, they are of similar pricing with the Yamaha electric feeder. $155 for the 8 mm. Always check with feeder manufacturer to get the best price. Machine seller will add a big margin.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 03:48:38 pm by 48X24X48X »
 

Offline PartialDischarge

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1625
  • Country: 00
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #96 on: July 08, 2021, 03:01:34 pm »
Overall I'm very happy with the machine. This is the first PnP that I've operated, and I've been able basically alone, to mount medium sized boards, starting from 0. Still there are lots of details about the software that I'd like to learn, but I guess I will as problems arise. The only real problem I had was that I had to increase LED brightness in the Fast Camera from the default value as it was throwing a lot of 0603 components, although maybe lowering the recognition threshold would have been a solution too.

Right now, out of caution and because I like to watch the mount process I limit the mounting XY speed to 30.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream
Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #97 on: July 08, 2021, 03:47:29 pm »
Overall I'm very happy with the machine. This is the first PnP that I've operated, and I've been able basically alone, to mount medium sized boards, starting from 0. Still there are lots of details about the software that I'd like to learn, but I guess I will as problems arise. The only real problem I had was that I had to increase LED brightness in the Fast Camera from the default value as it was throwing a lot of 0603 components, although maybe lowering the recognition threshold would have been a solution too.

Right now, out of caution and because I like to watch the mount process I limit the mounting XY speed to 30.
The fast LED is best set at 250. These are settings from the old v6.0 software which were solid for me, so I brought it forward to v8.0 that has some values changed (the lead software engineer personally told me to change things like brightness to suit in the newer software). I have set the speed up to 50 but nowadays I just slowed it down to 40 just to admire the process.

Offline JacksterTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Country: gb
    • PCBA.UK
Just checked with my supplier, they are of similar pricing with the Yamaha electric feeder. $155 for the 8 mm. Always check with feeder manufacturer to get the best price. Machine seller will add a big margin.

Okay, that changes things a bit.

Will have to look into this.


Looks like Charmhigh has had access to these for a while? Found videos from 2018 from them with a similar look of machine with NXT feeders.

Offline 48X24X48X

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: my
    • Rocket Scream

Looks like Charmhigh have had access to this model for a few years? Found videos from 2018 from them with similar look with NXT feeders.

Saw this machine when they first release in 2019 August in Shenzhen. It's a very huge machine and expensive too. HWGC do acknowledged them as a good competitor though especially these newer big machine.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf