Author Topic: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens  (Read 6644 times)

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Offline iwbnwif

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ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« on: March 29, 2018, 07:11:35 pm »
Hi, this is my first post here...

I have recently got back into electronics after a 15-year gap.

I've designed my first SMT board and will shortly need to assemble it. There are a further 3 designs to come with progressively increasing component counts - up to ~100 components. I doubt I will ever make more than 3 of each board - so basically hobby work.

I'm pretty okay with hand placing as there's nothing smaller than 0804, but I might end up using PQFP type packages. Therefore, I think reflow is best / necessary.

I've read and watched a lot about the T962 and T962A. Maybe with the mods they are okay, but I am not that sure.

What I didn't see was any review or comments on the T962A+ - has it fixed any of the problems of the T962/A or is it just a bit bigger and more powerful?

What is more interesting to me is the ZB....HL series (ZB2015HL, ZB2520HL and ZB3530HL).

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Authorized-Infrared-IC-Heater-Reflow-Solder-Oven-BGA-SMD-SMT-Rework-Station-Reflow-Wave-Oven/32830782709.html

From the pictures this looks like a better designed unit, but who knows what lays beneath. I cannot find any reviews of this oven at all, but I don't think it is a re-badged T962. The RS-232 interface is interesting, but the example pictures show Windows XP so difficult to know if the software is even supported. It does imply the product has been around for a while, so it is rather surprising there are no obvious reviews.

I would very much appreciate any observations about this oven. Thanks!

 

Offline Stavos122

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 06:18:29 pm »
All of the software screenshots are in Chinese.  Description states its bilingual menu.  I would double check with the seller :-//   
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 05:00:29 am »
Those IR ovens tend to heat the PCB not very uniformly.

A standard convection kitchen type oven distributes the heat more evenly, and is a lot cheaper too.
There are a bunch of after market / open source controllers available for programming heat profiles.

But for occasional soldering, a hand held hot air gun is also a good start.
 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 10:51:05 am »
I am also in the market for a reflow oven and I'm having a hard time finding something for low volume prototyping that isn't in the multi $k range. Like you I came across one of those oven ZB2520HL and would love to hear from someone who acquired one. For me the big step up from the T962 is this "heating method:hot air circulation + Infrared radiation heating" which should really help with heat uniformity.
 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 10:59:03 am »
A follow up on my previous post... I finally found a handful of reviews here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Authorized-Infrared-IC-Heater-Reflow-Solder-Oven-BGA-SMD-SMT-Rework-Station-Reflow-Wave-Oven/32830798619.html and they look positive.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 03:16:17 pm by AllSySt3msG0 »
 

Offline KaneTW

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 02:55:03 pm »
the ZB..HL series seems to have a hot air function along with IR, but I have no idea how it actually works.
 

Offline Pinkus

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2018, 03:35:02 pm »
for me it looks like these infrared tubes are way to close to the PCB. By this you definitely will have hot spots and not an uniform temperature. And beside of this: these infrared tubes are pretty slow with heating up and cooling down (all the ones I know, there might be quick one though), thus following any profile might may not be possible. But it looks like this oven is new and somebody has to bite and to make a review.
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2018, 03:56:58 pm »
I use a GE toaster oven with a thermocouple controller able to do "ramp and soak", meaning, a rising temperature profile, hold, rise again, hold, and then fall.  The whole works was a little over $100, maybe $150.  It also has a solid state relay on a heat sink.  The secret is I have TINY thermocouple wire that I can poke into a plated through hole on the board, so it is controlling ACTUAL PCB temperature.  I can do up to 6 small boards at a time, or one all the way up to a letter size piece of paper.

My controller is an Omega CN4800, but I'm not sure all versions of the 4800 have the ramp and soak feature.  (A slight downside of this model is times are set in hours or minutes, it would have been more flexible to be able to set degrees/second ramps, but it all works, anyway.)

Jon
 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2018, 06:35:13 pm »
I have 8 thermo couplers and I'm considering acquiring one to see how it does. I could arrange the sensors in a grid pattern and plot the temperature against the reflow profile of the oven to compare.
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2018, 08:33:24 pm »
I have 8 thermo couplers and I'm considering acquiring one to see how it does. I could arrange the sensors in a grid pattern and plot the temperature against the reflow profile of the oven to compare.
The big problem is IR absorbance of the PC board and components.  The thermocouple sitting out in the air is maybe 300 C cooler than the PC boards?
One time I forgot to poke the thermocouple into the board, and the boards CAUGHT FIRE!  They were totally flambee'd blackened to a crisp!

So, I'm not sure your test would have any relevance to an actual board.

Jon
 

Offline KaneTW

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2018, 10:04:53 pm »
Are there any reasonably priced ready-made convection reflow ovens?
 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2018, 06:23:09 pm »
I would love a "just works" solution too that is not priced in thousands of $.

I'll give it until Friday and will acquire https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Authorized-Infrared-IC-Heater-Reflow-Solder-Oven-BGA-SMD-SMT-Rework-Station-Reflow-Wave-Oven/32830798619.html, will report back...
 

Offline sairfan1

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2018, 06:49:55 pm »
Hi,

I'm also planning to buy ZB2520HL or may be ZB2015HL can you please advise how was your experience?

Previously I was looking for QS-5100 as it has agv. reviews, but i came across this post and planning to buy ZB series.  My firend has T962 series and its not good.

Thanks.
 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2018, 11:36:02 am »
Finally went for it, I will report when it gets in...
 

Offline sairfan1

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2018, 03:54:46 pm »
I have been received mine, did not get time to play with it. for Canada i would recommend choose FedEx shipping that is the most cheaper one.

 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2018, 04:14:40 pm »
Oh really nice!

Will you open the case to see if they still have that smelly masking tape inside? I am also looking forward to see if the heat distribution is more even this time.
 

Offline sairfan1

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2018, 09:33:51 pm »
Yes sure, next week i will get time and will let you know, one more thing only order to official store, i put my order to some different supplier even after 10 days he did not ship the order, i opened dispute and canceled my order, then i found official store and they shipped in 4 days.
 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2018, 09:43:52 pm »
 

Offline sairfan1

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2018, 03:25:09 am »
Yes, that's where i bought.
 

Offline brandongoode

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2018, 01:31:15 pm »
sairfan1 & AllSySt3msG0 -- How has your experience been with your new ZB reflow ovens?  I'm looking at replacing my old reflow toaster oven and would love to hear about how the ZB preforms.
 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2018, 02:59:17 pm »
The unit came in yesterday but I didn't have time to unpack it yet.

I am planning to unbox and post pictures later today... maybe do a tear down to see if they got rid of that awful masking tape too.
 

Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2018, 09:55:16 pm »
Ok so I unboxed and took some pictures of the ZB2520HL Reflow Oven, those are available here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/54w0j2cjrh8rtwq/AAAUO2Mk5uoaoW6EsbRtzIpma?dl=0

Comments so far:
- The box was pretty banged up in one place, the oven itself shows no sign of problem yet though.
- I asked for the 110V version, it came with a beefy molded plug on a H05VV-F 3G 2.5mm cable which seems to be rated for 25AMP.
- The fuse at the back of the unit is a F20AL250V which is a fast blow 20Amp fuse.
- There was a significant ding protruding from the front of the tray, looks like something hit it very hard from inside.
- The unit feels robust, the case doesn't have lateral movement, good rubber footings, the tray slides well and has a magnet to hold it closed.
- I needed to pull a bit on the side fan grill to prevent it from rubbing against the fan, it was making a very loud whirring noise.
- As soon as the back power button is ON, the side fan turns ON and emits roughly 58dB from 1 meter away.
- Pressing the power button under the display illuminates it and gives access to the pictured menu in english.
- The material inside the tray and the oven looks like those insulated aluminum wafers found in toasters.

Thats it for now, tomorrow I will take some time and pop the top off to see what the inside looks like :)

Edit:

Ok I lied, I couldn't wait until tomorrow... I added 4 pictures showing the inside when you pop the top off, so far no sign of the awful masking tape and no obvious wiring problem (ground looks decent). I don't have a board ready for soldering yet but I will lay a couple of scrap pcb pieces, start the reflow, at the peak of the reflow profile I will open the tray and check what the temp looks like with a thermal camera.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 10:24:35 pm by AllSySt3msG0 »
 
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Offline AllSySt3msG0

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2018, 07:11:17 pm »
So I did a test today without solder, just to see how the machine behaves exactly...

I laid out the boards that would have been reflowed so that they are propped up by a stack of two "scrap" boards. You can see in the attachments how those boards were arranged, what the machine looked like from the outside with a thermal camera and also what the board looked like when I opened the tray at the beginning of the cooling phase.

The machine was using around 970 watt (around 8 amp) of power constantly during the temperature ramp up throughout the profile. During the temperature hold moments the temperature was oscillating wildly as the elements were turned on/off.

During the weld phase around 200C I could smell some plastic or strange smell emanating from the machine.

The rear fan only turned on during the cooling phase, I have yet to figure out if the machine truly has a forced air / convection feature.

Edit:

I took out the endoscope and took some snapshots of the inside of the oven, we can see the IR tubes, thermocouples protruding from the top and also a grill on top of the tubes. My guess is that the fan that turns on as soon as the machine is powered on is used to cool down the electronics and that air seeps to the main "cooking" area. This will require more investigation...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 07:38:46 pm by AllSySt3msG0 »
 

Offline brandongoode

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2018, 11:14:43 am »
AllSySt3msG0 - Thanks for all the info and the great pics.  Would love to hear how your first batch of PCBs turns out. 
 

Offline flasonsmts

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Re: ZB/HL Series and T962A+ Reflow Ovens
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2018, 09:44:21 am »
IR reflow oven heating speed is fast  but now most reflow oven are hot air convection reflow oven for common PCB production.

Why, this is because the infrared reflow oven has some shortage:
1. unlimited temperature increasing, infrared reflow oven heating PCB fastly and the temperature increasing won't be a limited number, if sometimes the conveyor stopped or PCB board dropped, the infrared reflow oven can heating the PCB to 800°C or more than 1000°C. because it don't have detector of the PCB temperature.  but hot air reflow oven won't be this, you setting the heating zones temperature 200°C, when reach 200°C, the reflow oven will stopped increasing temperature. even board dropped or conveyor stopped, it won't increase the temperature.
2. If the PCB has big components or big components too closed to small components, the big components will take too much heat, and small components has few heat, this will make the PCB temperature diviation not equally. and the components color different will also make different temperature diviation. black component temperature is higher than silver and white one. it's hard to control the temperature on each place of the PCB. hot air reflow temperature don't have this problem, every component got similar heat, temperature ramup equally.
3. so now most reflow oven in the SMT assembly line is hot air convection reflow oven. But infrared reflow oven or infrared heating method still has it's postion in SMT field , some big components need much heat in few time. some place need thermal ramup fastly or getting enough heat, still need infrared heating method. Especially used in the through hole reflow soldering feild.
SMT reflow oven wave soldering machine pick and place machine SMT assembly line https://www.flason-smt.com/
 


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