Boring topic - drilling RPM range etc - affordable bench drill, German market

[jpanhalt]

@jpanhalt:
dial indicators in a drill press? Are you serious?

Absolutely.  I can use them on my cast iron Jet.  Don't use them very often, as I hand hold most stuff.  But at least the spindle is straight, runs true, and with a good chuck, one can get decent precision.  Its era corresponds to the revolution in Japan from cheap post war stuff to Deming inspired quality that we see in Honda, Toyota, Mitutoyo, and most other things from Japan today.  Not CNC or Bridgeport mill of course, but good enough.

[Benta]

The expressed intent was to compete with Asian imports.

I remember my dad's B&D hand drills from the 60s. Aluminium housing, very sturdy, very reliable, good chucks (Jacobs).
Today, at least over here, Makita is the top brand for professional power hand tools. B&D is forgotten. The Japanese import won on quality.

[cdev]

Silver Solder.

I have two of those float chargers and they produce tons of RFI. I have to use them only infrequently, it is so bad I was unable to filter it out enough with ferrites.

I agree with you on Harbor Frieght stuff. I would much rather have the option to buy the cheap Chinese stuff than not. THose who are angry are the same people that made tools too expensive to buy for people like me.

I grew up before it was available and the result was that all the tools from my childhood that I still have are much cheaper than the ones from laterwhich are all also from China, but better.  Because before of the flood of Chinese goods any tool at all cost an arm and a leg.. So the decent tools were totally un affordable to the young me. I ended up building my own first volt-ohmmeter, signal generator, etc. Unfortunately they were thrown out by my mother  after I tried to go away to go to college against her wishes.

Now, with more affordable tools I can afford to DIY, rather than spend hundreds of dollars to hire somebody to do things, money that I dont have.

[Benta]

Buy cheap Chinese stuff and be happy for a very short time over the low price. Cry the rest of the product's (short) lifetime while having to work with the sh*t.
Then buy again. And again. And again...
Or:
Buy quality stuff now and cry over the price. And be happy the rest of your life.

It's your choice.

[SilverSolder]

Silver Solder.

I have two of those float chargers and they produce tons of RFI. I have to use them only infrequently, it is so bad I was unable to filter it out enough with ferrites.

I agree with you on Harbor Frieght stuff. I would much rather have the option to buy the cheap Chinese stuff than not. THose who are angry are the same people that made tools too expensive to buy for people like me.

I grew up before it was available and the result was that all the tools from my childhood that I still have are much cheaper than the ones from laterwhich are all also from China, but better.  Because before of the flood of Chinese goods any tool at all cost an arm and a leg.. So the decent tools were totally un affordable to the young me. I ended up building my own first volt-ohmmeter, signal generator, etc. Unfortunately they were thrown out by my mother  after I tried to go away to go to college against her wishes.

Now, with more affordable tools I can afford to DIY, rather than spend hundreds of dollars to hire somebody to do things, money that I dont have.

Interesting that you found RFI with them,  I haven't actually noticed that.   They are just a simple linear circuit with a handful of components - basically a reference and current limiter -  maybe the power supply has issues?  [I am pretty sure it is just a standard AC transformer... not even a switch mode!] - in any case, they work really well for me, I guess I'm RF immune! 

[...]
go to college against her wishes.
[...]

How does that happen?  -  most moms destroy your stuff when you slack off, not when you set out to do stuff! 

[Benta]

So now this thread is about RFI and not about a drill press? OK, got it.
"Puts on hat and leaves."

[TinkeringSteve]

Someone suggested building some sort of table on wheels, to make this a bit more flexibla among space constraints (e.g. roll out of the corner when needed, ...)
I was actually thinking of that myself.

But now seeing something that weights something like 50kg ... and a height of 1m or so, where presumably the heaviest part is the motor, so the center of mass would be pretty high up I'm afraid...
I couldn't just make some small table-on-wheels that's not much bigger than the foot of the thing, it would have to be considerably bigger, and with some weights low above ground, to get the center of mass lower, eh?
Such a thing falling over would not be fun I'm sure.
Well I still got a few sand bags of 25kg each in the cellar, from another experiment... perhaps I can put them to use finally :-D Just need to fill the sand in smaller bags... perhaps ALDI fabric bags or so... ANd perhaps, other than other such table son rolls I already have for other stuff, this one should not be made out of cheap spruce glued wood of 18mm thickness like I usually use...

[TinkeringSteve]

Is this such a drill for doing brass, is that what's meant by "0 degrees" ?
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fWsAAOSwymBhOd3~/s-l1600.jpg

Ans opinions about brands of those HSS-G drills, e.g. Milwaukee, DeWalt? The latter seem to have a tendency of costing less than the former, in the "19pcs" etc sets available anyway (all HSS-G without Cobalt, I realized those with it cost more)

[Benta]

No.
Brass drills have a normal angled V-shape at the point.

A normal HSS drill has two sharp cutting edges formed by the helix form and the relief angle. For brass and cast iron this cutting adge must be ground flat, so that it's parallel to the axis of the drill.
Like the attached sketch. The thin vertical line symbolizes the drill axis.

[BrokenYugo]

It takes little time with a hand stone to re grind the rake angle for drilling brass. It doesn't take much to get the desired effect, just enough to see it really.

[Benta]

It takes little time with a hand stone to re grind the rake angle for drilling brass. It doesn't take much to get the desired effect, just enough to see it really.

Good link. 

[TinkeringSteve]

Oooh! I was somehow trying to imagine something in the wrong direction.

I am somewhat reluctant to ruin my drills, though
Perhaps I should wait until actually doing something with brass again, and then order the drill sizes used again to still have the "normal" ones, too.

[Benta]

Just order two sets of HSS drills. They're not expensive.
For a drill press, there's no need for HSS-E or HSS-G, rather the opposite.
The normal HSS drills are better suited, as you'll never be able to avoid drill flexing, and they are very sturdy there (they don't break). Plus, the non-ground sides prevents making ugly holes when flexing.
HSS-E and HSS-G are for mills, not a drill press.

[nctnico]

HSS-E and HSS-G are for mills, not a drill press.

IMHO not quite true; Cobalt drills are for tougher materials. If you are going to drill in stainless steel, you will want to use Cobalt drills instead of regular HSS. A regular HSS drill is dull after one or two holes in stainless steel.

[Benta]

...which is irrelevant here, as the OP has no such ambitions.
Apart from that, it's also not quite correct. Many stainless steel alloys work harden if you don't really "push the envelope" with regards to feed (heavy machine needed). When that happens, you're left with grinding. No drill will help.
Stainless alloys suitable for machining are friendly, and will not cause extra wear on the drills.
Can it be that you're thinking of cast iron? That really dulls a drill.

OTOH, I'd choose Co5 drills for mild steel, because that's really a pig to work with (St37, St45, St52) and almost impossible to get a good surface.

[SmallCog]

I'm not in Germany but I presume Aldi sell the same drill press globally?

I'm quite happy with my second one. The first one wasn't terribly well made, went back in it's box and was exchanged an hour later with no dramas for one that seems much better made.

I've spent my working life in workshops that have all sorts of nice, expensive, professional tools including drills. My drill press for home lives on the corner of my bench and gets used occasionally, I just can't justify buying a commercial grade tool.

With care its capable of being a precise instrument. It's also quite grunty and capable of drilling quite big holes.

As for speeds mine lives in it's lowest speed setting.

I did graft a work lamp onto it so I can see what I'm doing better. My wife couldn't understand why I went to the effort of wiring it to come on with the drill - looking back I can't either it means I have to do my final alignment with the bit spinning but the better you can see, the more precise you can work. Drill presses don't do precision the operator does, its all up to you to put the bit where you marked.

My shed has a bunch of these mounted near key bits of equipment (drill press, lathe, vice, electronics bench etc) https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/tertial-work-lamp-dark-grey-50355442/

Look carefully at the chuck, you need to decide if you want keyed or keyless. Also consider what tools you may use to drill with - a lot of drill presses in this size have 13mm or 1/2" chucks but a selling point for the Aldi one was it has a 15mm chuck. Ideally you want a drill press where it's easy to change your chuck - in the case of my Aldi one I have no idea if it's even possible to change and I put a little jewellers chuck in it for little drill bits that that the aldi chuck wont grip

99% of the time I drill holding the work piece with my fingers against a scrap of plywood. I have a vice, and I do use it on occasion, but I don't think I've ever bolted it down, it's mostly used if I'm drilling into the side of something round.

Final note, I've noticed the same thing with reviews from the US they all seem to be sucking up to the advertisers or scared of being sued or something. One gentleman who seems to give fair reviews to tools in the US market is the youtuber ProjectFarm. https://www.youtube.com/c/ProjectFarm/videos

[TinkeringSteve]

Final note, I've noticed the same thing with reviews from the US they all seem to be sucking up to the advertisers or scared of being sued or something. One gentleman who seems to give fair reviews to tools in the US market is the youtuber ProjectFarm. https://www.youtube.com/c/ProjectFarm/videos

Yeah! I just found his test videos, where he tests different drill brands of the kind of drills I might buy, and another one where he tests step drill bits - there he's really mean, drilling through armor plating Not that my requirements come even close, but it was interesting to see.

[Benta]

I'm not in Germany but I presume Aldi sell the same drill press globally?

I've never seen Aldi sell any power tools here (perhaps a cheap battery hand drill at some point).

Final note, I've noticed the same thing with reviews from the US they all seem to be sucking up to the advertisers or scared of being sued or something.

It's a different business model. US magazines live from the advertisers. Literally, every third page is an advertisement. Most of the "technical" articles are written by the advertisers and are just a little modified for "look and feel". There's no free trade press in the US.
It's pure "mushrooming" for the readers.

[SmallCog]

I'm not in Germany but I presume Aldi sell the same drill press globally?

I've never seen Aldi sell any power tools here (perhaps a cheap battery hand drill at some point).

They sell heaps of power tools here! My Lathe is from Aldi too

Not the model I bought, seems they have a newer one now


Some more random catalogue pages of tools, I just assumed it was a German thing to sell power tools and food in a supermarket

https://catalogueau1-957b.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/catalogue/aldi/aldi-catalogue-special-buys-week-35-2021/1.jpg

https://www.discountstoresau.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Aldi-Taurus-Bench-Grinder-and-Other-Power-Tools.jpg

https://catalogueau1-957b.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/catalogue/aldi/aldi-special-buys-week-23-2018/1.jpg

For context $1 Australian in the above pages is about 0.63 Euro

[jpanhalt]

I'm not in Germany but I presume Aldi sell the same drill press globally?

I'm quite happy with my second one. The first one wasn't terribly well made, went back in it's box and was exchanged an hour later with no dramas for one that seems much better made.

First, let me make clear that I know you are in Germany and that Harbor Freight does not ship to the EU.  I assume some similarity between Chinese merchandise importers across borders.  Namely, returns do not go back to China.  They go to trash or what is called in the US, unclaimed freight.  (A little trivia, that's how HF began.  I visited its early headquarters store in Camarillo, California.  It actually began selling merchandise that was returned.)

When dealing with low-end stuff from China, there is no substitute for hands-on examination.   A similar thing happened to me with that HF mill/drill I showed.  I bought one, got it home, and of course, there were issues.  Took it back to the store.  It happened to have just received a return from an experienced machinist at one of the local automotive plants.  HF does not recycle or repair.  They just trash.  I negotiated taking both home and used the best of each.  Then returned the real junk to HF and kept my Frankenstein.

Do you have that option of buying something locally?

[TinkeringSteve]

Hah, that thing looks kinda Klingon!

I just assumed it was a German thing to sell power tools and food in a supermarket

LIDL sometimes has hand power tools of dubious quality, but I haven't seen anything as big & (presumably) heavy as that drill press.

[david77]

Aldi Süd does sell Tools. Much of it is utter shite. Sometimes you can find a gem.

[SilverSolder]

Aldi Süd does sell Tools. Much of it is utter shite. Sometimes you can find a gem.

This is like Harbor Freight...

[Gyro]

Hah, that thing looks kinda Klingon!

I just assumed it was a German thing to sell power tools and food in a supermarket

LIDL sometimes has hand power tools of dubious quality, but I haven't seen anything as big & (presumably) heavy as that drill press.

Yes, I have seen drill presses in there, but they have been the typical cheap 5 speed ones with thin columns and tables. At the same time, they have been sold more cheaply that other places. That's probably a bit of a blanket statement about quality. I have bought some excellent power tools from them at very good prices - for instance their track saw has been very well reviewed and is compatible with festool and other tracks, their 20V interchangeable battery X-Team tools are very good too. Best of all, their 3 year warranty and returns policy is very generous (better than most branded products) making it easy to get your money back if something isn't up to standard. Most stuff is GS approved too.

[TinkeringSteve]

Ah, here is this thing about the Bosch PBD 40, that I heard but forgot what it was:

It is roughly at 6:30 where he demonstrates it - language is German, but what he's saying:
There is this downholder clamp that comes with the machine. If you fasten it to hold down a workpiece, the metal pipe holding the motor case tilts backwards, making you drill at an angle.



That doesn't seem so nice indeed. His verdict is still that he'd buy the machine again because bang for buck. (Note that he replaced the stupid wheel with levers Took some 3D printing, though)
But it seems like something relevant to nag about, eh?