Boring topic - drilling RPM range etc - affordable bench drill, German market

[Benta]

Well, according to the guy, you should then spend 3000 Euro instead of 300.
Your choice.

[nctnico]

Well, according to the guy, you should then spend 3000 Euro instead of 300.

Cry once and smile forever
or
Smile once and cry forever

Pick your poison 

[coppercone2]

get a cheap drill press and put a good chuck on it. that would be your best cost efficient approach. get a jacobs chuck extractor of the right size and splurge on a good chuck. the chuck is going to be the crux of a cheap drill press.

[JohanH]

Ah, here is this thing about the Bosch PBD 40, that I heard but forgot what it was:

It is roughly at 6:30 where he demonstrates it - language is German, but what he's saying:
There is this downholder clamp that comes with the machine. If you fasten it to hold down a workpiece, the metal pipe holding the motor case tilts backwards, making you drill at an angle.

It's true that it flexes a small amount. The higher the workpiece, the higher you have to lift the clamp and the more it will bend. Tolerances might vary between different drill presses, though. I tried with a 5 cm high piece and clamped reasonably hard. The chuck moved 0.18 mm (on a dial indicator). It is of course better to bolt the workpiece to the table. And there might be some flexing too when drilling some hard material. But as said, 300 € or 3000 €, there is surely some difference. For my hobby I'm happy with this one. It is sold as a hobby machine after all, not professional.

[nctnico]

get a cheap drill press and put a good chuck on it. that would be your best cost efficient approach. get a jacobs chuck extractor of the right size and splurge on a good chuck. the chuck is going to be the crux of a cheap drill press.

That is a good suggestion. A long time ago I got a relatively cheap drillpress. First thing I did was upgrade the chuck to an automatic tightening one from Rohm. IIRC I chucked out the original chuck a while ago. Was sitting unused in a drawer for 30+ years already.

[coppercone2]

yes, when I was reaming and lapping on my drill press I realized what a horrible chuck lowes provided me with. i feel like im holding a shake weight during rotary lapping

put a long strait shaft object in your drill press and turn it on and you will see whats going on without a dial indicator or anything

[Benta]

"Reaming and lapping" on a drill press? 

[coppercone2]

its pretty shady but good enough for what I wanted

[SilverSolder]

its pretty shady but good enough for what I wanted

Clamp some round stock in the chuck (e.g. brass), mount and center a drill upside down on the table, then "sink" the chuck down over the drill (drilling a hole in the stock).  Take the drill out, put a set screw in from the side.  Presto, a nicely centered drill (or other tool) holder for your enjoyment!  (don't forget to mark the position of the "precision adaptor" in the chuck)

[nctnico]

But that doesn't get rid of the axial play in the shaft of the drill press. I have used my drill press for milling as well and therefore I made two threaded holes in the housing to keep the shaft in place (piece of nylon + bolt to apply pressure).

[SilverSolder]

Some milling operations don't require axial play control (i.e. when the mill is cutting through the metal completely, as in milling an edge).

At some point, you are definitely better off getting a mill! 

[coppercone2]

lapping is good for deburring holes that meet with a long shaft in a material too. I did get a NOGA rotating deburring tool recently though... have not tried it but it should make this 'simpler' in the future

https://www.noga.com/Products/rvcn/Reversible%20countersinks

but if you don't have one and you want a shaft to slide smoothly down a bore that is clamped with a later drilled set screw hole, a 'half assed' lapping operation can at least clear the burr left by the set screw hole. More of a post-modification repair.. hard to get at that burr made in the 'junction' between the two deep bores.. but in this case a wobbly drill press is fine for the lapping tool, and a fine example of where lapping tools would come in handy for work that does not need to be high precision. very convenient.. once the holes are deep enough it gets REALLY annoying.

[nctnico]

Some milling operations don't require axial play control (i.e. when the mill is cutting through the metal completely, as in milling an edge).

Try to mill a slot in relatively soft materials and you'll see why axial play control is important    (BTW have a real mill since a couple of years).

[SilverSolder]

Some milling operations don't require axial play control (i.e. when the mill is cutting through the metal completely, as in milling an edge).

Try to mill a slot in relatively soft materials and you'll see why axial play control is important    (BTW have a real mill since a couple of years).

If the chuck is heavy, you can (just about) get away with it - but it obviously isn't the preferred option!   

[TinkeringSteve]

OK, since I saw a good offer on eBay for one of those Bernardo machines, froma seller who seems to do only machine stuff and has 100.0% good reputation, I bought one.

Now the packet arrived where the styrofoam separating the heaviest from the less heavy parts on top, already having cracks in places, things looking sloppily packed into the plastic bags again, and a few small parts are missing.
The seller swears they just took it off a palette with many of those they get dierctly from Bernardo. Bernardo says "maybe it was a foto model".
I'm surprized that it weighs 49.? kg instead of the given 54kg net weight, but so far I have not seen anything big missing (have not looked INTO the machine, though oh dear...)

Now I'm a pale hands software guy with few contact with "heavy machinery", but should I expect this rust and dirt on a new machine like that?
(see images below)

There are 2 4-side nuts missing that were to go into an aluminium profile slot, so something else can be attached to it with screws. Everything nuts & bolts that came with this were black. IDK whether it's sprayed onto them or a property of the material - should I worry about using 5-side nuts from blank steel going on aluminum slot w.r.t. corrosion, would the "black metal" (lol?) prevent that...? (It's only holding a protective transparent plastic thing before the chuck, though)

[Benta]

If the machine is sold as new, that's not acceptable. Send it back.
If it's sold as used, then it's a different story.

[TinkeringSteve]

If the machine is sold as new, that's not acceptable. Send it back.
If it's sold as used, then it's a different story.

It was supposed to be new... They even put the manual for the wrong machine in there, lol! That must have been a rough monday.
The styrofoam stuff is pretty broken, let's see what the seller suggests...

[jpanhalt]

A little rust on exposed surfaces of machines made in China is not unusual.  It's a long trip on a container ship.  It will usually come off with an appropriate 3M pad (Scotch Brite).  PurpleMaroon works, grey is finer, and white is basically a polish.  Not sure what you can get is color coded the same way.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Brite-Scuff-07445-07447/dp/B00LWTWCKY/ref=asc_df_B00LWTWCKY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459484289519&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13468956257635291340&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015391&hvtargid=pla-966530080293&psc=1  I am not recommending Amazon.  It was just a handy reference picture.   I bought mine in whole boxes 25 years ago, and they are still at least half full.  Find a pair of disposable scissors to cut them.  You can use that same pair forever.

Rust on a working surface is more serious, but the dimensional change if it comes off with Scotch brite is insignificant.  My biggest concern would be stripped or poorly threaded holes, particularly in aluminum or sheet metal.

Black screws are probably metal oxide finish.  It is a little protective, but not as much as galvanized or cadmium.  I like the looks on machinery, but there is no real functional difference from bright finished ones.

[mzzj]

If the machine is sold as new, that's not acceptable. Send it back.
If it's sold as used, then it's a different story.

It was supposed to be new... They even put the manual for the wrong machine in there, lol! That must have been a rough monday.
The styrofoam stuff is pretty broken, let's see what the seller suggests...

Chinese factories seem to produce these outdoors or in unheated huts judging by the amout of rust UNDER thick layer of grease/cosmoline on more than one example. Cast iron rusts easily and is really messy to machine so maybe theydo it outdoors.

Mostly no real effect on accuracy or use As long as the spindle taper is clean of rust.

[coppercone2]

well I can't complain about people not wanting to breath that stuff in

[TinkeringSteve]

While I haven't had time yet to set up the machine and try it out,

an intermediate update w.r.t. the somewhat messy, not really new seeming package I got, some little missing parts, and the rust etc.
I was asking the manufacturer, Bernardo, about that.
They did apologize about that, and too, opined, that it looks like superficial rust and can probably be removed.
But they offered to send some accessories for free, to make up for the suboptimal experience. Like a kit of drill bits.
Since I already bought drills, I asked for a discount on a machine vice that was mentioned in the manual as optional accessory.
Well - they sent me one, entirely for free! Nothing special, simple vice. That is mighty nice, though.
Now I really hope that nothing serious is wrong with the machine when I'm ready to test it. Please universe, don't destroy this rectified experience!

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

I bough a cheap priced Scheppach drill.
Make sure you throw away the chinese chuck that comes with it, they have terrible concentricity.
Buy and fit a Röhm Chuck instead, that way you end up with a reasonably prived bench drill with decent concentricity.
Well suited for my needs which is the occasional hole in metal cases or reworking holes in 3D prints.