Fusion 360 - MECHANICAL design Tips Tweaks and discussion. (Not Eagle)

[mnementh]

   This mornings tweakage and Render - should have included a Shark next to the text 

What... no unicorn farts? I'm mildly offended. 

mnem

[beanflying]

Wonder how Unicorn Farts Explode with 35kV shove up their bits 

Not idiot proof but an attempt at improving the odds of the idiots not becoming a Darwin Award winner. Using the old Aussie Standard colours for Mains and I REFUSE to use Black as Hot  you complete dicks in charge in the USA

[mnementh]

Wonder how Unicorn Farts Explode with 35kV shove up their bits 

Not idiot proof but an attempt at improving the odds of the idiots not becoming a Darwin Award winner. Using the old Aussie Standard colours for Mains and I REFUSE to use Black as Hot  you complete dicks in charge in the USA

Really only one way to find out...

Yes, it's true; Americans think with their dicks, which means they vote with their dicks. Either being a dick or twiddling their wieners pretty much every minute of the day.

mnem
There IS a reason I'm trying to escape from DumbFuckistan, you know. 

[beanflying]

You tell you other half you are going to probe Unicorns with HV and see what the response is 

11pm must mean it is knock off time for my Brain. Port & Chocolate I think 

End of the day Renders and still did some outside when the Sun was Shining.

[mnementh]

She sez, and I quote, "As long as it's attached to your nutsack, probe away..."   

I don't know whether to take that as a threat or a challenge... 

mnem
Now, of course... I can't stop thinking about it.

[pipe2null]

Not sure which thread is better for this Q, this topic or the 3D Printer Yet? one.  Figured "Mechanical Design" might be a closer match.  ANYway...

So I'm working on a few different projects related to 3D printable pneumatic parts and/or piped air kinda stuff.  My immediate project I'm trying to get done is an anemometer (air flow and pressure meter) that uses a couple reasonably precise I2C pressure sensors (BMP388's).  I have an initial prototype that kinda works, but I still have much experimenting to do with different pitot/venturi/etc configurations, and hopefully improve sensor drift a bit.

But the issue I keep coming back to is how to run wires through the wall of a pressurized 3D printed container/pipe?  For a finished design, using gasketted nuts and bolts as intermediate conductors would probably work, but not ideal when I'm trying out a bunch of different configurations and need to swap the sensors to newly printed parts.  Using glue to fill in around wires run through actual holes in the container doesn't really work since the sensor modules I'm currently using have little cable adapters that I don't want to mess up. 

Thoughts?

[beanflying]

Without a bit more of a picture of what you are doing I would have thought surface roughness and 3D printing would be an issue? What sort of pressure are you running at?

Back when I had a real job we used fairly much off the shelf Stainless Cable glands with submersible pumps at a few Bar of water pressure with open motors in the shells under them. Against a pressurized container they should cope with a bit more providing you don't blow the threads out.

[pipe2null]

The cable glands should provide a good short term solution.  Long term too unless I figure a different way of doing it that is printable.  Thanks!

Yea, surface roughness, getting air-tight connections with non ideal tolerances and octagon-ish "circular" curves makes things a bit challenging trying to do pneumatic bits and pieces with 3DP.  To start with, I'm using pressures not much above ambient, but I'll see what I can get up to.  When (if?) I come up with designs worth releasing, I fully intend on doing failure testing...  Who needs fireworks when you have designs to test?  Perhaps those little printed plastic pinatas are filled with unicorns?     Heh.  Kidding!  (Mostly...)

[beanflying]

Stop Means Stop. A few times around the WEB I have had muppets wanting to rewire Emergency Stops and keep x,y or z alive  Punch the button and nada lest you release your smoke and yet they want to argue

Laser version because it was the most recent case of such muppetry 

Learn to love the insert manufacturers part https://autodesk-fusion.partcommunity.com/3d-cad-models/sso as well as McMaster Carr to save a heap of time. 

[beanflying]

Sometimes Pseudo Models are all that is needed to get an idea across don't sweat the little things always. Looks far to shiny to be a cheap and cheerful Chinese product anyway 

Done with the help of a manufacturers hose barb assembly twice. 10 minute model 

[mnementh]

Not sure which thread is better for this Q, this topic or the 3D Printer Yet? one.  Figured "Mechanical Design" might be a closer match.  ANYway...

So I'm working on a few different projects related to 3D printable pneumatic parts and/or piped air kinda stuff.  My immediate project I'm trying to get done is an anemometer (air flow and pressure meter) that uses a couple reasonably precise I2C pressure sensors (BMP388's).  I have an initial prototype that kinda works, but I still have much experimenting to do with different pitot/venturi/etc configurations, and hopefully improve sensor drift a bit.

But the issue I keep coming back to is how to run wires through the wall of a pressurized 3D printed container/pipe?  For a finished design, using gasketted nuts and bolts as intermediate conductors would probably work, but not ideal when I'm trying out a bunch of different configurations and need to swap the sensors to newly printed parts.  Using glue to fill in around wires run through actual holes in the container doesn't really work since the sensor modules I'm currently using have little cable adapters that I don't want to mess up. 

Thoughts?

If you can lay your hands on an old CPAP/BiPAP machine, particularly the ResMed series (I've picked up a few at the thrift) to tinker with, they have a pretty well developed differential pressure venturi & MAF sensor assembly in them which tinkery might lend some valuable insight into the work you're doing.

Just a thought...

mnem

[Jay_Diddy_B]

The cable glands should provide a good short term solution.  Long term too unless I figure a different way of doing it that is printable.  Thanks!

How about using a small PCB with the connections soldered and an O ring (or silicone):



Jay_Diddy_B

[beanflying]

I needed a generic Microswitch and couldn't find a model to 'borrow' so I rolled my own. Available to steal here if it is of use https://a360.co/2A61YuZ or you just want to play.

[pipe2null]

@beanflying:  I'll probably play with your switch later.  I'm currently debating taking the plunge into CNC and laser cutting.  To be clear, the cheap-but-better-than-a-toy end of the spectrum.  I haven't done either before, so my dilemma is figuring out the cheapest solution that isn't a waste of money...  I don't think I'm ready for a complete-from-scratch DIY reprap type setup, so I've been looking at chinese kits (with ball screw) and such.  Your microswitch and muppet comments reminded me that I need to look into endstops.  Heh.

How long did it take you to make the microswitch model?

If you can lay your hands on an old CPAP/BiPAP machine, particularly the ResMed series (I've picked up a few at the thrift) to tinker with, they have a pretty well developed differential pressure venturi & MAF sensor assembly in them which tinkery might lend some valuable insight into the work you're doing.

Heh, funny you should mention that.  I actually have a CPAP machine in the room, but it's on loan and the way it's manufactured is not friendly to uninvited tinkering.  I'll check the local thrift joints when they finally open up.  I was thinking of just doing an airflow meter, but your mention of MAF made me scratch my head a bit....  Hmmm...

How about using a small PCB with the connections soldered and an O ring (or silicone):

Yea, that could probably work for lower pressures.  I'll probably try that out as soon as I figure out what I'm doing for non-o-ring gaskets.  Which brings me back to my current ridiculous excuse -- ERR -- I mean my current "need" for cheap-ish laser cutting in my lab.  I have multiple sets of cutting tools, but no, of course I want sharks with laser beams mounted on their heads.  Or unicorns with lasers?  I'm not sure if that's a more appropriate reference for this thread.

[beanflying]

Probably 30 minutes I guess for the switch model. It wasn't important to be to uber accurate with things like measuring arm angles etc but it is accurate on the rest if it needs to be made into another assembly for example including the mounting holes and width. So model appropriately I guess is what I am saying, in some cases I would simply leave a space for the switch in the design rather than model it and insert it.

With Laser cutting or CNC for that matter think seriously about what is the biggest likely wiget I will want to make 'sometimes' or if it is a one off or very rare you need a big widget then look at the differential between out sourcing the work to extra size and cost of owning the bigger toys and the space requirement.

Initially I went for an upmarket 300x200 40W Laser and should have gone to at least a 600x400 60-80W in hindsight but I am now building a 1200x900 100W In reality this is larger than needed for all likely jobs but it is the last Laser I will need or build (famous last words  ).

The larger CNC I own and still need to get rewired and operational (separate dirty workspace reasons partly) is a 1000x600 working area with a 2.2kW spindle, which while not huge if I need anything larger done I would be happy at this stage to farm out as the next step up is really to a full 8x4' bed and the space required is massive. I could generate work and $ locally if I owned a larger one but it is not where I am currently at.

EDIT - Virtually wired in place

[mnementh]

Dammit bean, would you stop waggling your Fusion-Fu in our faces like that? We feel inadequate enough next to your collection of lasers and wood-mangling tools... 

mnem
"widget... widget-widget..."

[beanflying]

Dammit bean, would you stop waggling your Fusion-Fu in our faces like that? We feel inadequate enough next to your collection of lasers and wood-mangling tools... 

mnem
"widget... widget-widget..."

Download the model, follow what I did when or try and find out what I should have done better. The challenge is there for you

[pipe2null]

With Laser cutting or CNC for that matter think seriously about what is the biggest likely wiget I will want to make 'sometimes' or if it is a one off or very rare you need a big widget then look at the differential between out sourcing the work to extra size and cost of owning the bigger toys and the space requirement.

Initially I went for an upmarket 300x200 40W Laser and should have gone to at least a 600x400 60-80W in hindsight but I am now building a 1200x900 100W In reality this is larger than needed for all likely jobs but it is the last Laser I will need or build (famous last words  ).

The larger CNC I own and still need to get rewired and operational (separate dirty workspace reasons partly) is a 1000x600 working area with a 2.2kW spindle, which while not huge if I need anything larger done I would be happy at this stage to farm out as the next step up is really to a full 8x4' bed and the space required is massive. I could generate work and $ locally if I owned a larger one but it is not where I am currently at.
(Attachment Link)

Hmm.  Well, I have the challenge of finding an "apartment friendly" solution that avoids being lynched by my neighbors, plus all the normal challenges getting into CNC and laser for the first time.  I have plenty of available windows, so fume extraction should not be a problem, and I'll probably have to use a tarp/drop cloth to catch dust and debris, and supersize my mini fire extinguisher.  Is CO2 commonly used to keep work pieces from catching fire?  Working area size-wise for spindle use, the baby 3018 kits are too small but the 6040 kits are a bit too expensive for me ATM.  For laser, it would be nice to have a larger format but cheap frame big enough to cut reasonably sized colored acrylic panels for a dry box and 3DP enclosure.  I'm still scratching my head on this one: you can get away with a large cheap belt driven frame for laser, but using the same kinetics and controller for both the spindle and laser saves a lot of cash...

For spindle:  What wattage/RPM should I get for PCB work and/or non-metal enclosures, or generally speaking milling/cutting/drilling materials up to but NOT including metal?  I'm arbitrarily using surface mount and through hole PCBs as my minimum capability bar.  As far as noise pollution is concerned (apartment...), how much of a difference is a water cooled spindle compared to air cooled?
For laser:  I really, really, really, REALLY want a higher powered CO2 or equivalent laser, but that just isn't going to happen any time soon unless there is an extremely good fire sale, so I'm looking at cheap-ish chinese laser modules.  Any idea what the minimum output wattage laser module would be that isn't a complete waste of money, for cutting colored acrylic on the upper end of use (and rubber or silicone gaskets)?

I'm sure I'll have questions more related to Fusion after new toys -- ERR -- I mean tools get ordered and delivered.

Dammit bean, would you stop waggling your Fusion-Fu in our faces like that? We feel inadequate enough next to your collection of lasers and wood-mangling tools... 

mnem
"widget... widget-widget..."

It will NOT admit feelings of inadequacy!  But I can't hide the Olympic sized pool of drool collecting on my desk...  Hmm...  Apparently drool volume can be measured in watts of laser output.  Who knew?

[mnementh]

I'm sure bean knows where there's a online converter for that; seems it would be a standard currency in some circles. 

Maybe your next design should be a drool cup with ear-loops...? 

mnem
Hell, at this point even my feelings of inadequacy have feelings of inadequacy...

[beanflying]

I make no apologies for puddles of drool but I also acknowledge there is always someone out there with a better, faster or bigger toy/tool too in an ideal world I would have an 8x4 table with a Big spindle and Plasma fitted

With your apartment limitation and your current wants there is a couple of options. One is you build a 'proper' CNC router with linear guide rails and ballscrews because open build rollers and belts will SUCK for accuracy in particular if you want to do SMD sized PCB's. 400-750W of VFD spindle will be plenty (avoid using woodworking router adaptions). IF you are prepared to not do any large or photo engraving then you 'could' fit a proper real 10W diode to the gantry for cutting and slower speed engraving this with a few passes will do 3mm Acrylic and leave you with one machine. Given the complexities of CO2 Lasers/Mirrors and lenses it is really not compatible with the mess of CNC in one box.

If you choose the better option of the two a separate Laser given the space constraints then 40W is sensible you can cut slowly 6mm Acrylic/Ply in single passes and run high speed engraving. My current Toy - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/40w-300x200mm-laser-cutter-engraver-vollerun/ but with a bigger capacity than mine is sensible. X axis Linear Bearing and Y with roller wheels and belt drive on all is fine as there is very low inertia compared to CNC Routing and the Y movements are slow compared to the X. One option is DIY from Rob who I got the plans for my bigger one then bashed to larger ones again well worth the few $ for the Fusion Plans and build guides https://www.furtherfabrication.com/resources?category=Y400 this size and table top style makes sense and his videos are worth a watch regardless https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ72zDm2feverqV7qAbNH7Q

Yippee Team Fusion has found the rendering bug on my layout and got me a solution product support and 'Free' software Feel free to browse the model and critique, I do reserve the right to ignore that critique  https://a360.co/2XZg1u0

[mnementh]

Yup... starting to look like a right proper -INATOR there bean... we're all looking forward to the human subject testing. 

Tho I AM a bit disappointed... only ONE BRB...? 

mnem
*toddling off to ded while I still can*

[beanflying]

Only one BRB may be shown but I think the size of my upcoming build will maybe get one fitted at each end.

Another 'rough' model for the project today. Take the picture use it as a Canvas and use the apparent known over all dimensions for scale. Result sort of kind of looks like the real thing and good enough for 'stralia and then added into the job

[mnementh]

Yeah; that's exactly what I was thinking on the BRB thing; one of my regular clients back in the day required a BRB at eye-level (even if it had to be mounted on a pole) on every left corner of any machine or series of machines & jigs bigger than a refrigerator. Point being you ALWAYS knew where to look for it no matter where you were or what side you were facing.

What's the duty cycle on that compressor in this application...? Is it one recommended by the people who made your LASER or its driver...?

Asking because that particular one just OOZES "Cheap China-Direct POS" even from a picture on the computer screen... LOL 

Decent job on the model, tho! 

Good building!

mnem
 

[beanflying]

The nozzle requirements are really low at only a few PSI and a few LPM so the vibe pumps do fine and are more or less standard with most Lasers. For mine I might just run it via a regulator/trap off my small tanked compressor but  it won't make a lot of difference as the extractor is the noisy bit.

Need to get my head around how to draw this bit next and have it make sense to the average punter https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32962475128.html I already have the final mirror and nozzle assembly done I can drag in for the other part of it.

  time

[pipe2null]

I'd like to lodge a complaint against the Bea-nNut Gallery...  I previously had myself convinced that I'd just go with the cheapest laser diode module that had enough power not to be a complete waste of money.  Now after binge watching Rob's DIY CO2 videos and buying and reviewing his build plans, not nearly as complicated as I had previously envisioned...

And it seems quite a bit cheaper than I had thought too, at least if you avoid commercial electronics and go the reprap/Marlin/blah route for control and stepper drivers...  He listed cost of aluminum extrusion at around $500 for the large format (1200mm x 600mm working area) and around $300 for his smaller desktop design (600mm x 400mm working area), so scaling the thing up or down doesn't change the overall price a whole helluva lot since Rob's BOM includes about the same $ for electronics as the laser+laser PS...

Hmm... 

Maybe your next design should be a drool cup with ear-loops...? 

That sounds ergonomically challenging, a bit too curvy for my current CAD skill level, but I'll keep it in mind.  Or I could just re-purpose an old fashioned tin-can-and-string telephone.