Learning to Weld

[EEVblog]

Mentioned to Mrs EEVblog the other day that I'd like to learn to weld. Surprisingly, she said she's always wanted to learn as well.
So MIG or TIG?

Which one would you pick to learn with?
Bunnings: https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?q=welder&sort=BoostOrder&page=1
Sydney Tools: https://sydneytools.com.au/search?p=1&q=welder

Someone in Twitter mentioned MIG is easier, like "hot glue for welding" as xjet put it. TIG can do aluminimum and stainless steel and generally do more stuff.

 

[chickenHeadKnob]

With MIG welder an inexperienced weldor can produce very pretty welds that come apart like nothing. Because the heat affected zone doesn't penetrate deep enough into the parent metal.
TIG is the thinking man's tool. Longer to learn and  more knobs to twist equals more fun and a greater variety of materials you can handle. Aluminum needs AC to clean surface oxide layer.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Dural Men's shed. Come and hang out. No need to buy anything until you know what you want. The fact that you want to buy from Bunnings frightens the life out of me.

In your case you should hunt around for a similar shed group perhaps a bit less churchy.

 

[jpanhalt]

I learned with oxy-acetylene, so many years later when I moved to electric arc, TIG came very naturally.  As ChickenHead said, some people start with MIG and produce pretty, but very poor welds.  It is more difficult to do that with TIG.

For structural welding, MIG (or stick) is probably the way to go.  For precision welding, I use TIG.  TIG can also be used for any weldable metal or purpose, including structural. Most, maybe all TIG welders can be used for stick welding too. 

The one area where MIG shines (and why I bought my Linde MIG years ago) is when doing long welds on sheet steel.*  Distortion is considerably less.  My MIG welder is circa 1983.  Modern versions have some nice features, but I have only seen demonstrations and have no experience with them.

For welding outdoors with wind, you may want to consider either stick or flux-core "MIG." (With flux-core, an inert gas is not needed.)

*Stick welding with a TIG welder for power is also very good for sheet steel.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Never wear your favourite clothes to the party. Those that know, know. 

You only truly can say you know how to weld after you've burnt your balls. Bonus points for when it happens welding upside down above your head. 

[Ed.Kloonk]

Come to think of it, I know a bloke with plenty of time on his hands who can teach you..

[Ed.Kloonk]

I found this:

https://classbento.com.au/welding-workshop-for-beginners-sydney

3 hours. Worth the money, IMO.

[redkitedesign]

A welder from Bunnings? Might as well buy your soldering iron from spotlight (https://www.spotlightstores.com/art-craft/other-crafts)

Seriously, sydneytools or totaltools is much better, much more choice and knowledge.

Of course, the most important question is what you want to weld? Structural steel for the fence and barbie, or oldtimers? Nuclear reactors are whole different line of welding too.  Check with people in those lines what they use.

Me? I'm just using a cheap gasless MIG (flux-core MIG) from cash converters. Works like a charm for mild steel. Useless for anything else. Definitely soldering-iron form Spotlight category :-)

[Jester]

I’m not a great welder, but I do weld from time to time, sometimes there is no substitute. Don’t do what I did:

- Many many years ago when entry level welders were not as cheap as they are now I purchased the cheapest 120V wire feed welder just to get a feel for it. Not enough power, better than no welder but not much better.

- Upgraded to a low cost 240V Mig welder, enough power to weld more than 1/8” however the spooling mechanism was cheap a$$ . Used it for too long.

- take a good look at your surroundings before you snap down the visor. One time I was welding away and the smell of the welding smoke took on a more fireplace like smell. I stopped welding to discover the too close trash bin was on fire from a spark.

+ finally decided I had had enough and picked up a better quality used Hobart 240V MIG. What a difference, no more spool issues, really easy to weld with in comparison to the previous welders, it just starts the arc better and makes much nicer beads.

[Mechatrommer]

Someone in Twitter mentioned MIG is easier, like "hot glue for welding" as xjet put it. TIG can do aluminimum and stainless steel and generally do more stuff.

you can buy stainless steel and aluminium wire reel for mig. what you want to buy depends on what you want to do or expect. mig is good for beginner because wire is feed out automatically, you only point and shoot. tig you have to feed with your other hand and usually for advance welder who want to have more control on the welding feed or when space is not suitable for mig. keep that in mind the difference, auto feed vs manual hand feed, which one you expect?

btw i upgraded to mid-cheap $250 5-in-1 weld machine 1 year ago that can do all mma,mig and tig (tig torch need to buy separately, not expensive), after being a long time user of big heavy iron mma welder. this inverter/triac based machine is much breezer and smoother to use, much light weight and doesnt burn my power socket and cable. i still prefer mma coz rods are cheap and thats what i got used to for years. few times i used the mig on tight space that mma cant reach, and my tig torch is still brand new i havent tried.

be careful, people here can get easily frantic with mains safety when doing electronics, i tell you welding hazard is several magnitude higher, severe burns and cuts, toasted skin due to high UV and especially sand in the eyes... must come with it are full face protection mask, proper suit and glove, safety boot etc and especially welding eye glass, if you dont want the sand get into your eyes during the night.

[Fraser]

I learned how to weld using MIG as I was told that it was the easiest welding system to master. I then visited my engineering section at work and asked a friend if he could give me some tips on welding. He did better than that, he told me how the weld process works, recommended an easily digested book on the topic and then set me up at lunch times with the huge MIG welder that they had and a pile of flat steel to practice welding on. The book informed me of correct technique, the need for bevelling edges, but joint gaps etc. after a week of practice, 1 hour per day, I was competent enough to create some nice welds with correct penetration. You had to learn to listen to the sound of the weld for correct welder settings. It is more complex then soldering in that respect. After a month of lunch time practice I bought an SIP hobby MIG welder that is intended for use on car restorations etc. it uses small bottles of CO2 or CO2/Argon mix so is a bit expensive on the gas front. Full size gas bottles may also be used with the appropriate adapters and regulator. I have done a lot of MIG welding since learning the process and the knowledge has served me well at home and at work. I have no fear of fabricating load bearing steel structures on cars etc as I know how to spot a less than great weld.

A fellow manager at work asked me round to his house to see the HF beam antenna tower he was assembling. It was Zinc plated steel lattice with a top plate onto which he was welding the antennas mounting brackets and swivel joint. I took one look at the pigeon poo welds and decided he needed some guidance on the matter. He had bought a MIG welder and taught himself to weld over a couple of days playing with the unit. He was using Gas cutter/brazing green goggles and his approach was to ‘stab’ the MIG wire at the metal to be welded and create what he thought were good spot welds  It was a disaster. I diplomatically advised that the “spot welds” needed to be replaced with full length welds for strength. He asked if I would do the welding for him as he had yet to progress beyond his “spot welds”. I happily helped as it gave me the opportunity to cut away the pigeon poo welds and clean off the Zinc along the weld line. Once prepared, I welded the brackets to the top plate with a good quality continuous weld on both inner and outer surfaces. This bracket was taking the wind loading of a 3 element HF beam antenna so it had to be strong. The welds were very tidy so needed no grinding in this particular case. A good coating of Cold Galvanizing and the job was done. That bracket later withstood the gale force winds that actually brought the whole mast down with the antenna crumpling upon impact with the ground. I mention this story because it is all too easy to use a MIG welder with inadequate experience and create severely flawed welds. I have seen ugly, poor quality, welds made to look nice and shiny with an angle grinder but they remain poor welds beneath.  Also welding through some metal platings like Zinc must be done with great care due to the poisonous gasses produced.

It is important to study the process of welding/MIG welding and helps to find someone experienced in such to improve technique. Then it is just practice, practice and more practice. Buy a well known branded MIG welder as cheap no name welders can have truly awful wire feed systems and performance. With a junk MIG welder it is hard to learn as the welds can be poor through no fault of your technique. SIP are respected in the UK but there are other reputable brands.

Regarding TIG welding….. to me that would be a next step after mastering the easier MIG process. With TIG you are almost using a Gas welder technique involving creating high temperatures with the Plasma and then feeding the filler rod into the weld pool. I think that may be a more challenging welding technique for the novice and the MIG might be the better starting point. MIG welders are reasonably priced too

For info, I use an SIP MIGMATE Turbo 130 and that has been perfect for my hobby needs. It must be 20+ years old now but has never given me any problems.

Hope this helps

Fraser

[Psi]

Learn TIG. MIG is big-boy hot glue, it's not real welding    (ducks)

I'm probably biased though, i've only ever used TIG.
MIG is good for learning fast so you can start building something.  TIG is good for learning the art of welding.

My tips for learning to TIG weld if you plan to buy the gear yourself

1) Argon tank sizes can be deceptive due to the percentage of the width that is just solid metal. Small tanks hold jack shit amount of gas, so get something decent.  I have an E size tank.
2) If you want to do lots of aluminum welding try to get a TIG welder that can do frequency adjustable AC (50-300hz etc). Most of the cheap welders only do AC mode at fixed 50hz.  You can still weld alu at 50hz it's just nicer at 200hz. So it's not the end of the world to be limited to AC 50hz. (Don't confuse AC pulse frequncy with AC frequency adjust. Some cheaper china welders can have confusing knobs that try to trick you into thinking they have AC freq adjust when they don't.)
3) A foot pedal is highly recommended rather than just an on/off button on the touch.   You want analog current control while you weld so you can ramp it down near the end so you don't blow a chunk out the workpiece. (Especially with alu since the ends of the workpiece have less heatsinking so the temp shoots up for the same amps.)
4) Having a large high pressure gas cylinder in your home garage has some risks, make sure it's well secured to a welding cart so it can never fall over.
5) Depending on type, the tungsten electrodes can contain a tiny amount of thorium so are mildly radioactive. They're quite safe to use and handle but when you sharpen them to a point don't breath the dust, or ideally don't make any dust!
6) Get a TIG machine with MMA/Stick welding option.  Stick welding is very useful when you don't care and just want to weld something together quickly and cheaply

[nctnico]

Why not start with stick welding? I managed to make a flying start with that. But I have to say I've heard my uncle weld for many, many hours so I know what the right weld settings are supposed to sound like (as Fraser already suggested) and could adjust the current properly. Either way it seems to me the trick is to make the puddle with molten metal equal in size at both sides (make the arc jump over from one side to the other repeatedly) and add material.

I never tried MIG welding but I think the process is similar to stick welding but getting the right speed for the wire seems something that might need tweaking to me; adding extra complexity compared to a stick which you can fully control. But I might be totally wrong. From what I've seen on Youtube TIG, welding needs the material to be absolutely 100% clean otherwise the pin deforms / gets polluted.

[Gregg]

I also believe that starting with oxy-acetylene welding of mild steel is the way to develop the basic ideas associated with welding, mainly how to control the puddle of molten metal.
The bottom line of most types of welding is to control the puddle.  With oxy-acetylene it is easier to see what you are doing without the arc flash problems of multitude of open arc welds.  After you are experienced in control of the puddle with a torch and the hand eye coordination needed, TIG welding is a step to a hotter heat source and MIG has the advantage of feeding new material into the puddle but has a lot of other parameters to consider.
In any case, mild steel is the cheapest and easiest to use to practice.  If you want to weld aluminum, TIG is the easiest and will produce the best results unless you are doing large scale production welds.  However you choose to start, a good respirator and proper eye protection are mandatory.

[Mechatrommer]

I never tried MIG welding but I think the process is similar to stick welding but getting the right speed for the wire seems something that might need tweaking to me; adding extra complexity compared to a stick which you can fully control. But I might be totally wrong. From what I've seen on Youtube TIG, welding needs the material to be abolutely 100% clean otherwise the pin deforms / gets polluted.

i started learning with stick, i managed to get something to weld in a matter of seconds or minutes, very easy. but when i went to my intern, the company used mig, when i tried to use it i got pissed off because welding always got disconnected, fast forward to today i know my mistake, i expected mig to work like a stick, all i have to do with mig is point and shoot and wait the wire/rod feed out and touch the metal. so for me, mig and stick are quite different in term how you control (hold) the feed line (stick or the wire).. and then mig and tig need gas flowing on the nozzle, otherwise you'll get damaged torch. i dont have argon gas etc i only used compressed air connected to where the gas should be, so air flowing through the nozzle will keep the arc away from nozzle. ymmv.

[Psi]

It's pretty common for the cheaper (like sub $1500) TIG machines to include a MMA switch for stick welding.
So going TIG usually also gets you stick welding too. 

Less common to get a stick/MMA option on a MIG machine because it means adding an extra terminal and more complicated internal high current wiring.

Stick welding absolutely still has it's place.
You don't need gas and the rods are pretty cheap.
So if you just want to weld something up and don't really care much. A machine that can do stick is very useful to have.

[Psi]

Another advantage with TIG is your work gloves don't have to be as heavy duty as you need with MIG/MMA because TIG is more focused and you're not throwing sparks all over the place. So you can get away with light duty welding gloves. (obviously dependent on what exactly you're welding)

I love Ironclad heatworx.
Since they're lighter duty gloves you have much more dexterity compared to a thick pair of leather welding gloves.

[Smokey]

Both.  Different processes for different jobs. 

I say get a multi-process machine.  Make sure it does AC/DC TIG. 

https://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/mig/lightning-mts-225-tig-package

I'm not a professional fabricator.  Just a dude with a garage.  I run one of these, and have been really happy with it.  I go back and forth between MIG and TIG often.  Super easy.  Much more affordable than a Miller, and has a decent warranty.

Note: Don't get a DC only TIG, or a Fluxcore only MIG.  You will outgrow both of those way too quickly.

[tautech]

First work out what materials you are probably to weld as there is no one answer to what is best suited.
Then work out how deep you need to go into this rabbit hole and believe me it is a wide and varied profession.
With some guidance at crucial points you can mainly self learn as I have over 50+ years after first going 50% with pop for a oxy acetylene set when I was 13 and learning the basics in engineering classes at school.
 
Consumable gases are your biggest outlay as bottle ownership or rental is a significant ongoing cost however a gas set is the most versatile in the small engineering shop. Cutting, heating, fusion welding, brazing, soldering, metal powder overlays and even flame hardening make an oxy set the leader for general use. With skill all metals can be welded with an oxy set. Best suited for under 5mm fusion welds. Gas bottle hire/ownership ongoing costs.

Arc is probably the next easiest to learn and least outlay but is mostly limited to 2mm+ thick steel although thinner can be successfully welded once the skill develops to manage molten weld pools and not have them too large where they drop onto the floor. Leaning to manage the arc is a skill on its own as is selecting the right welding rod for any application or steel type. Traditional arc is mostly limited to ferrous metals of most any thickness.

Mig is the next cheapest investment and successfully manages thin panel steels right through to heavy fabrication, is fast to apply and when using Mig gases there is no welding slag to remove which can be a significant advantage in post weld cleanup. However some of the nicest Mig welds I've seen were done with flux cored wire and CO² as a shielding gas. For the home shop 0.6mm wire is adequate for most jobs but for heavier work 0.8mm wire might be preferred.
Mig's great disadvantage is susceptibility to wind that blows the shielding gas away making it troublesome to use outdoors in other than the calmest conditions. Mig shielding gas required. (Argon/CO² mix)

Tig is the jack of all trades but not suitable for heavy work and also susceptible to wind. Tig can weld a wide range of metals however the power unit must have the specialist features in order to do so and these require a deeper investment for that versatility. The best machines and operators can weld the thinnest of metals with Tig such is the control you can get with it. An auxiliary treadle control is highly recommended. Argon shielding gas is required.

Of the 4 types mentioned I have used all but Tig the least as its weaknesses are a liability to my needs when I already have Mig, arc and oxy. Actually I do have a Tig torch that fits a little 140A DC caddy welder I rarely use but the oxy is more convenient. I only have the caddy welder for the occasional portability needs.

Other stuff.
Auto darkening helmet, just so cheap these days you're are nuts not to have them.
If you eyesight is aging, and for who of us isn't it, use specs when welding. Even $2 pairs help immensely to produce better quality welds.
Grinders, a small angle grinder at least for weld prep and post weld cleanup. A cupo brush for it is a good investment too as are cut off wheels.
Safety glasses, you'll need them when grinding and removing slag.
Files, why ? There are materials that can be contaminated with carborundum from a grinder and a file is required for the last stages of cleanup.
Gloves, yes there are times when you really need them with Mig in particular and it's splatter can make the process of laying down a nice weld most uncomfortable. They'll also prevent numerous burns while you learn your craft.
Slag hammer, sorta goes without saying for arc and gasless Mig.
Wire brushes.
Cramps, several will be required as will backplanes, jigs and straight edges to cramp the work to to keep it straight while being welded.
Squares, protractors etc for markout and setup.

Pitfalls
Metal identification is crucial to successful serviceable welds.
Preweld prep is also crucial to successful serviceable welds.
Some cast metals require careful pre-weld preheat and post weld cooling to prevent cracking.

There is lots to learn, enjoy the ride.

[bostonman]

I searched for a spreadsheet that may outline the pros and cons of all the different types, but didn't find anything.

[Circlotron]

This thread sounds a bit like someone is asking for recommendations for their first multimeter and people are totally missing the point while extolling the virtues of this vs that 8-1/2 digit meter. I say get a cheap ass inverter stick welder from Bunnings or whatever and get a pile of steel scrap, 3mm or thicker and just play to your heart's content. If you decide hey, this is where it's at then you might want to move up to something better while either keeping or selling your entry level welder. Or you might decide after a while that this fad has run it's course then you haven't spent a whole lot. Up to you of course, but that's what I'd do. But whatever you do, don't get one of those old buzz box transformer stick welders, even if it's for free. The difference between one of those and an inverter welder is unbelievable.

[themadhippy]

. I say get a cheap ass inverter stick welder

or an old car battery and a battery charge

[Ed.Kloonk]

I searched for a spreadsheet that may outline the pros and cons of all the different types, but didn't find anything.

It would only be a set of data based on the perspective of the one person chart creator.

Depending on the weldor, the application can have good or bad results irrespective of what some chart says. It really depends on the skills and what is available to work with.

There are purists out there who want perfect site conditions and insist on doing TIG only before they'll turn up. There also are peeps out there who could fix your car with a coat hanger, jumper leads and a microwave tranny.

[bostonman]

It would only be a set of data based on the perspective of the one person chart creator.

True.

I've also wanted to learn welding, but I've heard it's quite dangerous. From what I've heard, sparks fall and roll remaining extremely hot for an extensive amount of time. Also, as the metal cools, it can pop. Many have habits of removing their helmet quickly to look at the weld subjecting themselves with the possibility of a hot piece of metal launching at their face.

My point is actually that even though another person stated to just get any welder and weld to see if you like it, the first is understanding the dangers and safety. A hot rolling ball of metal can burn down your house and a popping hot weld can injure a person. Another concern has been whether you can get electrocuted from arc welders (if I'm using the correct term). The item being welded needs to have a ground clamp, so what happens if your hand gets close to the tip of the welder while you're leaning on the metal (or the metal table the item is resting on)?

I've feared that if I took some Saturday afternoon course on welding that the instructor wouldn't practice such safety protocols thus leaving me to find out the hard way about injuries.

As useful as providing the pros and cons of different welding methods, now that I think about it, maybe a nice list of safety practices would be very useful to not only the OP but anyone else reading. Of course you can find safety guidelines online, but thought to mention this since this is a thread on welding ideas.

[notsob]

Check out jody at

https://www.youtube.com/c/weldingtipsandtricks

Everything that you could want to learn is covered